Cops Fear Violence Against Flash Mobs (as liberals do too)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drJGbI07qIE&feature=related ^

[MNDude]

UPPER DARBY, Pa. - As police in Upper Darby, Pa., search for more young people involved in last week's flash mob, more adults are thinking about arming themselves with guns.

People are talking about how afraid they are of being caught in the path one of these flash mobs while they're out minding their own business, and they want to be ready.

Law enforcement officials say it's a nightmare in the making because ordinary, private citizens are getting gun permits.

"We have people now that are fearful and carrying guns because of children. How sad is that?" Upper Darby police Captain George Rhoades said.

He said it's all legal.

"It's all self-defense," Rhoades said.

He says about 10 to 20 applications are processed every week in Upper Darby.

Rhoades says with that many people "carrying" and the violent actions of these flash mobs, the worst is bound to happen.

"Now we have this mentality, 'I'm not going to retreat. I'm not going to call 9-1-1. I'm going to be a vigilante and take care of the problem myself,'" he said.

That means flash mob children could be dead, and the would-be victims may have the right, but Rhoades is appealing to everybody to think twice.

[gigster]

You can't retreat and 911 is worthless.

Yes, but my 1911A1 will not be worthless.

[danielmryan]

Let’s be honest and admit that the police focus almost all of their energy on the war on drugs, because that is where the money is. half of all murders go unfolded but if you have pot in their home then they will do their level best to find it.

I agree. Before the War on Drugs, overkill and other kinds of police abuse really were isolated incidents. Canada never launched a War on Drugs. Even though the same kind of substances that are illegal in the U.S. are outlawed in Canada, there's been little overkill. In the most violent drug-related arrest in the last decade, in 2005, the police were victims. There hasn't been a similar case since.

[Immerito]

Well, at least we know whose side he is on—the side of criminals.

[Immerito]

Let me guess, you were one of those poor souls so unfortunate as to lose everything—firearms, ammo, etc-—in that boating accident.

Didn’t your parents ever teach you, “Don’t put all your weapons in one boat?” ;-)

[PA Engineer]

Come on. Be fair. Don’t be so presumptuous! This was his second (or third) boating accident!

[Tunehead54]

Taser, bean-bag gun, rubber bullets — there are lots of non-lethal options.

---

I keep two mag safes on top of all my loaded pistols. That's as far as I'll go for the bad guy.

[nathanbedford]

The left has created a cultural climate that fosters criminality and frustrates law enforcement.

The irony is that liberals who have undercut the capacity of the police to cope with flash mobs leaving the average citizen defenseless, will be the first to decry the private citizen resorting to self-help.

The problem is not really the logistical capacity of the police to respond, nor is the problem the digital technology which has altered the balance of power between criminals and police, the problem is the culture has worked against the rule law and left the police more and more isolated in the struggle for criminal justice. If the process of acculturation beginning with parents and extending into the schools, the churches, and the neighborhood disintegrates or, worse, actively operates to promote criminality, the police will never be fully able to cope because the culture will find a new tactic to overwhelm them.

Not only the institutions named but the criminal justice system itself which is designed to operate after the fact of crime has been rendered ineffectual by the left. The courts are overwhelmingly delayed and most criminologists will tell us that the effectiveness of punishment varies inversely to the length of time required to inflict it. It also varies with the consistency with which it is applied. On both of these counts the court system fails to intimidate would-be criminals from committing crimes. The deterrent value of punishment has been attenuated.

If drugs, prostitution, and gambling are activities so ingrained in the culture, then to use the criminal law to prohibit them is to alienate the justice system from the culture. Consider immigrant Irish and immigrant German lack of respect for anti-saloon laws in places like Chicago at the turn of the last century or national Prohibition two decades later. Respect for the rule of law is lost and that culture begins to condone other kinds of crime which have real victims. A Che Guevara, Jesse James, mentality metastasizes throughout that culture so criminals become heroes and crime becomes a virtue.

This libertarian/broken windows analysis is interesting because there is overlap and contradiction. But whether you buy the libertarian side of this argument which has been outlined above, the broken windows analysis has certainly found support among conservatives. The presence of signs of minor crimes unpoliced, physical deterioration of the environment and moral decay in a society generates scorn for the criminal law system.

Every time we chip away at the moral underpinning of a civil society, we cast a heavier burden on the police and the criminal justice system until it ultimately gives way under the pressure and fails to achieve the impossible. Civil society disintegrates not just in the inner-city but across the board.

The difficulty in establishing a civil society in places like Philadelphia is that we have race consciousness dominating the problem. As Nathan Bedford is tiresomely liable to pontificate, all politics in America is not local but ultimately racial. So if the police attempt to engage with the problem by initiating a broken windows philosophy of law enforcement they are accused of racism. Moreover, the problem has become so ingrained in the African-American culture that broken windows enforcement is seen as tyranny. Even the churches will reinforce that point of view, witness Rev. Al.

So the whites who are an entirely alien culture to the average African- American "community" either throw money at the problem if they are liberals or resort to self-help, like arming themselves, if they are conservative. Both kinds engage in white flight. So the vortex deepens.

The cultural divide has now become so deep and so broad that the mayor of Philadelphia has finally been moved, even though an African-American liberal, to address the problem. But excoriating youths who are the mass-produced exemplars of their culture might address the problem but it advances no solutions.

No real solution can be applied to this problem so long as the principal exploiters of the African-American community are African-Americans. They have a vested interest in maintaining the misery. Until the wretched victims of this left-wing/Democrat party shake off the cultist mentality of the ghetto there is no hope. There is no critical thinking going on in the ghetto, there is only the most outlandish conspiracy theory and victimization dominating all thought. One sees the same phenomenon in the Arab street and it is the equivalent international characteristic that we find in our inner cities.

The result in both cases is ignorance, poverty, bloodshed and societal disintegration. Until the Arab street abandons its mullahs we are in for a decade-long fight for survival as a representative democracy which tolerates infidels. Until the African-American inner-city abandons its benighted, superstitious, racist, defensive, and paranoid mentality and those who profit from it, we will see more and more flash mobs or their equivalent.

More police will not ultimately solve the problem. The culture, like a river erupting its banks, will simply swarm around them.

[MadMax, the Grinning Reaper]

To #17: A good beanbag shot to the nuts will stop anyone.
I would also think that rubber bullets to the ankles will bring down anyone unless they are wearing boots. Then it is time for the real stuff, if necessary to protect life and property.

I know that they liberals around me are not armed, but there are a lot of veterans nearby and police officers, including my son.

Let them come if they are that stupid but not a lot of store targets near me. Gonna miss all the fun.

[Norm Lenhart]

Out of curiosity, why bother with ‘less than lethal’ munitions? Fear of LETHAL munitions will stop far more rioters for a longer period than actual use of ‘less than lethal’. Rubber bullets hurt alot. True. Pain fades and a POd amped up, drug fueled thug will barely be slowed unless the LTL rounds hit him in a couple specific areas.

Rioters fearing that the public can and will open fire on them with copper jacketed lead will go a lot farther to stop them before they start because of the simple fact that a mere handful of rioters are hardcore types. Most are there for the thrill and to boost their street cred.

Live ammo quickly returns them to the meek little animals they are without crowds backing them. LTL ammo? Not so much.

The time tested of “Making an example” of one or two people will eliminate most subsequent violence. From ancient Rome onwards, things like ‘decimation’ get the desired compliance from the masses. The non violent solution to all this is for the rioters to not riot, thugs to remain peaceful and wannabees to stay the hell away from their ‘more brawn than brains’ street leaders. No stupidity on their part, no bang bang on ours. Simple.

Fear works.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

"We have people now that are fearful and carrying guns because of children. How sad is that?" Upper Darby police Captain George Rhoades said.

Hmmm. Must be one of those high-estrogen men from the article I posted the other day.

I think the UK is missing one of their police captains.

[rawcatslyentist]

>"I am sure those two race baiters will get all the media help they need from the liberal, progressive, state-run, lame-stream media.

Don't forget the Doles and their Red Cross Catering!

[trebb]

If a few idiots, and we all know that the idiots consist mainly of young blacks, get ventilated, then they will reconsider where they go to riot, steal, and assault people.

Yep - hence the "An armed society is a polite society axiom."

Those that fear more for the mobs who commit violence on innocent citizens need to be employed outside the law enforcement system.

[Condor51]

That means flash mob children could be dead,

[demshateGod]

George Rhoades should be fired this very minute. He’s a bafoon.

“Now we have this mentality, ‘I’m not going to retreat. I’m not going to call 9-1-1. I’m going to be a vigilante and take care of the problem myself,’” he said.

In what way is calling 911 going to help you in the event of a flash mob? It’s clear that public safety is not his goal.

[sheik yerbouty]

Oh the inanity? Maybe a bag limit would reassure the police..

[Dr. Bogus Pachysandra]

“Didn’t your parents ever teach you, “Don’t put all your weapons in one boat?”’

Naw, They said somethin’ ‘bout eggs and a basket though.=^D

[LevinFan]

I wonder what this officer would do if threatened by a flash mob? Would he choose not to go home tonight? I doubt it.
If the cops were doing their job, we wouldn’t be in the position of having to shoot at ‘children’.
On the plus side, these punks are cowards. Of a dozen or two hit pavement, the rest will run home to mommy.

[toomanylaws]

This is a very bad idea.

You are exactly right. Most of the replies here will get the shooter arrested and convicted no matter how unfair it seems. Most of the gun laws are very clear and specific of when you can and cannot use deadly force. I don’t agree with them but if you just start shooting at a group of people, you will probably end up in jail. Fair? No.. Reality? Yes...

[ThomasMore]

Catch them and confiscate their cell phones.

[Blood of Tyrants]

I saw a t-shirt. “Feared by many, Loved by few, Respected by all”. That is how we were after WWII and how we should be now.

[Justa]

In most jurisdictions being attacked by a violent mob is grounds for the use of deadly force. Do you suppose a jury would be sympathetic to the mob? Otoh, it will only take one sympathetic juror to acquit the shooter. Result: the local DA and police will lose even more respect from law-abiding citizens. Any DA with an IQ will consider this before filing against a shooter.

[headsonpikes]

Whether he intended so or not, it sounds to me like Captain Rhoades found an effective way to send a chilling message: “Flash rob here. Die here.” I suspect Upper Darby will be a quiet little township from here on. Voice your concerns, Captain. Often and loud.

Bingo! "Folks is crazy out here! They'll kill you!"

[sport]

The police policies swictched from safety of the public to control of the public years ago. Abd as the older ones retired, they got the personnel to do that. the police today, by and large, do not give a damn about your safety. They do care about controlling you though.

[papertyger]

Untrained undisciplined frightened civilians blasting away in panic isn’t a pretty thought.

True, but luckily it's a thought that is so nonsensical that it constitutes demagoguery. That cop is a prig, and apparently you are cut from the same cloth.

[Lazamataz]

Rhoades says with that many people "carrying" and the violent actions of these flash mobs, the worst is bound to happen. "Now we have this mentality, 'I'm not going to retreat. I'm not going to call 9-1-1. I'm going to be a vigilante and take care of the problem myself,'" he said.

WHAT
THE
F***

How is it that mobs of black people are descending on unthreatening and unsuspecting white people and trying to beat them to death, and the biggest concern of Rhoades is that white people might defend themselves??!???!?

Let's reverse things, to show how utterly evil Rhoades is: "You know, these lynch mobs, with white people hanging blacks... the biggest problem with this is black people are buying guns now.....what if one of them shoots a white person? That would be AWFUL."

[Lazamataz]

Oh wait. Suddenly his comments make sense.

[ladyjane]

Catch them and confiscate their cell phones.

Cell phones paid for with our tax dollars.

Any kids caught breaking the law should lose all their welfare entitlements.

[sport]

When one is attacked by a flash mob, their only help will be Misters Smith & Wersson, Bill Rugher, Sam Colt, Clock, or Kimber. Introducing one of them to Al Buck, Mr. Cars or mr. Barlow will make them take their business elsewhere. But as far as 911, as the ones that tried using that method learned the hard way, it don’t work. the calls might have amused the operators though, so it probably was not a total loss.

[MrB]

There needs to be a court case in which it is determined that a mob attacking an individual is deemed to be a lethal threat. Which it obviously is.

[GOPJ]

Police have to follow the law. Their standards for dealing with a threat - and the average citizen's standard - are different.

If you, LevinFan are frightened and feel you have the right to defend yourself against a flash mob - the judge will look at your experience with criminals ( probably zero experience) and factor that in to his decision. Most likely you'll go home - even if you shot someone. For a police officer it's the opposite. He's had lots of experience with criminals and the standard for him shooting a citizen is much higher. Higher with the courts, higher with 'the community', higher with his bosses.

Cities have burned because one policemen shot one black criminal. That would NOT happen if YOU shot one black criminal while defending yourself.

The solution is to change the incentives. If a person is part of a flash mob they lose the right to any state benefit for 2 years. No driver's license - no SSI, no disability, no food stamps. So people don't starve they can be issues a card to receive food at a food bank - no chips, no sodas etc.

If these incentives were in place, things would change quickly.

[PowderMonkey]

"Oh wait. Suddenly his comments make sense."

Quelle surprise. Whoda' thunk it? I'm shocked. Chagrinned. Bemused even.

[Immerito]

Oh, my mistake. That’s a horse of a different color. ;-)

[Rummyfan]

"Now we have this mentality, 'I'm not going to retreat. I'm not going to call 9-1-1. I'm going to be a vigilante and take care of the problem myself,'" he said.

The police chief is more dismayed over people taking steps to protect themselves than he is upset with the trouble-makers. Too bad - it is my fundamental right to protect myself.

[filospinato]

but Rhoades is appealing to everybody to think twice I agree fully, everyone needs to think twice about the caliber of handgun to buy in order to bring the situation to a close as quickly as possible. Opt for the .357 over the .22 pistol.

[The Toll]

As a law enforcement officer, shouldn’t he consider “the worst” to be an attack on innocent civilians?

So what does he mean when he says “the worst” could happen? Isn’t that what’s already happening? What could it be that he thinks would be “the worst”?

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

Thanks for taking the time to write that insightful post.

[Little Ray]

The only downside to this I see is the the potential for retaliatory attacks on the person defending himself’s home and family.

[little jeremiah]

“We have people now that are fearful and carrying guns because of children. How sad is that?” Upper Darby police Captain George Rhoades said.

---

Puke.

[little jeremiah]

Did you read Ulsterman’s latest interview? Part 3?

It’s all there in living color, what’s planned, we’ve seen the teasers.

[little jeremiah]

Oh, now I get it.

:-/

[CJ Wolf]

“Law enforcement officials say it’s a nightmare in the making because ordinary, private citizens are getting gun permits.”

Oh Nooo! It’s a nightmare that ordinary private citizens have to get a permit....

[melancholy]

I did. Why am I not astonished?

[melancholy]

If a person is part of a flash mob they lose the right to any state benefit for 2 years.

In the UK, that's what Cameron threatened to do. Did he implement it against the arrested criminals already?

Good question.

[RKBA Democrat]

“Vigilante justice is just another form of moral relativity (unless you are protecting yourself or others).”

Who said anything about vigilante justice? I have no interest in judging lawbreakers. That’s the job of the courts, which aren’t doing their job either.

The stated job of the police is to protect and serve, to assist citizens in the prevention of crime. Unfortunately, they instead seem to be being used to do more third world sorts of things things like seize cameras from people at townhall meetings.

Ultimately, the public pays for these police services and I think we’re going to hear more of a clamor for reduced police forces. If thery’re never around when you need them, why bother to pay for them? Folks who can afford it will have private security. And the rest of us will be on our own. Which if you think about it isn’t much of a change.

[tomkat]

I was with ya til that last bit.

F 'em, let the bastards starve.

[Smokin' Joe]

Load your own. People used to pick the paper cartridges open and dump the lead shot, then put the salt in, re-crimp it, and seal it with candle wax. It was one of the earlier and more painful nonlethal rounds, and was commonly used to discourage pilferers of produce in the south.

[Smokin' Joe]

Birdshot (BB to #6) will handily skip off of pavement, and tends to fan out when it does. The closet the bounce point to the target, the lower the shot (now flattened if old lead shot) will hit the target. Halfway will hit at roughly the same height as the shot was fired from (muzzle height). Think of it like a reflection, where the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection (roughly, there will be flyers). Best not to be alone, and have plenty of folks and rounds to catch the mob front at the same time. If the front ranks fall down, the rest will get tangled up in that.

The Street Sweeper and Striker shotguns were designed for this sort of mob control using the above tactic, but have been considered 'destructive devices' per the BATF since Lloyd Bentsen was head of the Treasury Dept.

[GOPJ]

How is it that mobs of black people are descending on unthreatening and unsuspecting white people and trying to beat them to death, and the biggest concern of Rhoades is that white people might defend themselves??!???!?

Let's reverse things, to show how utterly evil Rhoades is: "You know, these lynch mobs, with white people hanging blacks... the biggest problem with this is black people are buying guns now.....what if one of them shoots a white person? That would be AWFUL."

Well said, Laz.

[HereInTheHeartland]

“Law enforcement officials say it's a nightmare in the making because ordinary, private citizens are getting gun permits.

“We have people now that are fearful and carrying guns because of children. How sad is that?” Upper Darby police Captain George Rhoades said.”

And

“Now we have this mentality, ‘I'm not going to retreat. I'm not going to call 9-1-1. I'm going to be a vigilante and take care of the problem myself,’” he said. “

---

This guy is a disgusting piece of trash. Arrest him and sentence him to taking 2 years of Constitutional Law classes; plus American History classes. And not the Bill Ayers kind of American history.

Just sickening to hear a police official talk this way. These a holes are a big part of the problem. He doesn't realize that he; and every other law enforcement official, are hired hands for us citizens.
They work for us; at our pleasure!!!!

United States citizens should never be afraid to protect their selves from barbarians; up to the point of killing them if needed.
It is not a police officer's job to tell us if we should or shouldn't protect ourselves.

[HereInTheHeartland]

The comments after the video are heartwarming to read. They all see through the incredible liberal slant of the video.
“They are just kids” sniff sniff..