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The Debt-Ceiling Divide [Krauthammer]
National Review ^ | 7/29/2011 | Charles Krauthammer

Posted on 07/29/2011 6:15:08 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross

Edited on 07/29/2011 6:51:30 AM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]

We

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: debtceiling; divide; krauthammer
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"The distinctive visions of the two parties — social-democratic versus limited-government — have underlain every debate on every issue since Barack Obama’s inauguration ..."

" ... the problem is not that Washington is broken, that ridiculous, ubiquitous cliché. The problem is that these two visions are in competition, and the definitive popular verdict has not yet been rendered."

Let's pray that the 'definitive popular verdict' is rendered in November, 2012.

1 posted on 07/29/2011 6:15:11 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross
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To: Servant of the Cross
Nice to have the opinion of another demorat, I remember the stories about reaching arose the isles. When the republicans had all three, they caved then also. They just called it power sharing, and let the little man in the wig run the senate.
2 posted on 07/29/2011 6:22:01 AM PDT by org.whodat (What does the Republican party stand for////??? absolutely nothing.)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Servant of the Cross

This piece has some persuasive points...it’s difficult to know what the optimal conservative plan really is at this time, when we have limited input.

To that end, I posted this on another thread:

How about this for a deal:

The Tea Party caucus says that it will support the Boehner bill (which, does not raises taxes and promises future cuts...the shortcomings obviously being in the empty promise), IF Boehner will step aside as Speaker and agree to let Michelle Bachmann become Speaker.

In other words, he will let us know that his promises mean something....and we will know that he is putting his country ahead of his career.

(And Michelle B gets a great job...because she isn’t going to be President....).

How do y’all like that for a plan???


4 posted on 07/29/2011 6:23:47 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: Servant of the Cross

Krauthammer - isn’t he the one that said Obama would govern as a moderate?

Isn’t he the one that said the TEA Party would have no power?

Isn’t he the one that trashed Sarah Palin?

Old school.


5 posted on 07/29/2011 6:26:40 AM PDT by 30Moves
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To: Servant of the Cross
There is always some excuse to cave in, and there always will be. "Just give us all three branches and next time we promise to stop beating you. No, we really, really, REALLY mean it for real this time."

Whatever. I'm so tired of the bullcrap.

6 posted on 07/29/2011 6:27:27 AM PDT by jpl
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To: org.whodat

yes! it’s always the same story - the same corruption. Krautzee doesnt mention the pell grants (posted earlier today) that were supposed to be in the bill - where does that money come from? his butt?

We might not be able to get what we want because we only control THE PEOPLE’s HOUSE, but damn it, we can at least stop them from even MORE spending.


7 posted on 07/29/2011 6:29:42 AM PDT by oldmomster
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To: Servant of the Cross

That is a very good Charles has made. If you want Boehner, and the rest of the Republican party to do more, they need more than one hand ties behind their back.


8 posted on 07/29/2011 6:31:22 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: org.whodat
There is little hope for one that rejects wisdom from his intellectual superiors. Your game plan is...............?
9 posted on 07/29/2011 6:33:16 AM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Servant of the Cross
I support the TEA folks but at this juncture it is time vote for the changes that will be coming today in the speakers new plan. I like that Charles aptly named the Tea party folks as counter revolutionaries. Because if Obama continues as he has done for the last two plus years we are going to have revolution. This government scares the hell out of me, I do not trust most in Washington to do what is right. I think if the debt ceiling is not raised Obama will try to punish old folks and veterans first while taking care of his banker friends.
10 posted on 07/29/2011 6:33:55 AM PDT by OKIEDOC (I would rather be hung with a few brave conservatives than live a lifetime with cowardly liberals.)
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To: 30Moves
Hehehe. Yes, I know posting Krauthammer on FR requires donning a flame suit.

I still agree with his analysis on the fighting strategy here. This is an early battle in a much larger war. A war for "the future of the welfare state, indeed, the nature of the social contract between citizen and state." The definitive battle in this war is November, 2012 and the battle strategy for now should be determined by what places us in the best position to win November, 2012.

My pragmatism is based on not giving the overall electorate in this country much credit (most were educated in government schools). FReepers are a woeful minority of who will be electing the POTUS and the US Senate in 2012.

11 posted on 07/29/2011 6:35:26 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: ConservativeDude
Here is my response:

Where is the middle ground on insolvency?

12 posted on 07/29/2011 6:35:39 AM PDT by NoControllingLegalAuthority (Where is the middle ground on insolvency of the United States government?)
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To: ConservativeDude
Why can't someone in the GOP get the idea across...even to someone who is as dense as Harry Reid...that raising taxes is exactly the wrong thing to do when you want to encourage hiring. If you lower taxes, people have more income to spend, demand for good and services rises, and the inputs to produce those goods and services (i.e., labor) increases. By putting people back to work, tax receipts increase and, if those clowns in DC have any stones and don't spend it, the deficit falls. All of this is virtually the opposite of was Obozo and his cronies want to do. The $700+ billion "stimulus" was supposed to create millions of jobs. What did we get? Bupkus. Give me MY money back...I know how to spend it better than you do.
13 posted on 07/29/2011 6:35:58 AM PDT by econjack (Some people are dumber than soup.)
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To: ConservativeDude

Why not insist he commit suicide too?

Boehner knows, probably more than just about anybody, just how much can be accomplished with the current situation and he probably got the best deal possible.

If you want a better deal, give the Republicans more seats, and in both houses.

Then you’ll get a better deal.


14 posted on 07/29/2011 6:40:30 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: jpl
"Just give us all three branches and next time we promise to stop beating you ...

You have every right to disbelieve it will be different based on past performance.

However, I believe the "staggering rebuke" of the "counterrevolution" of the Tea Party movement in 2010, and the new legislators that came to DC, changed everything. It will be different next time. The welfare state is unsustainable and at least 50.1% of the country now knows that personally. Never before has this been the case.

15 posted on 07/29/2011 6:43:55 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Servant of the Cross; All
The premise of this article is that the Republicans will be blamed for the economy.

This only holds true if the MSM controls the debate. If that is correct, then it doesn't matter what the Republicans do, they will be blamed for the economy anyway.

What Charles Krauthammer and all the other ruling class pundits are unwilling to acknowledge is that is not about the political parties. It is about who controls the debate.

The MSM no longer controls the debate. If they did, there would be no Tea Party and no debate. The Republicans need to show that they are an alternative to the ruling class, who have brought us to the edge of ruin.

To that end, they need to hold firm.

This struggle is essentially between the MSM and the new media. We are part of the new media, and need to push as hard as we can.

16 posted on 07/29/2011 6:44:58 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
This only holds true if the MSM controls the debate.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is in question at all. The MSM still controls the debate for most of the voting public. Yes, the new media is a force but how many FReepers and Rush listeners do you think exist? It is not anywhere close to a voting majority. I blame government schools.

17 posted on 07/29/2011 6:50:23 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Servant of the Cross
I think the Krauthammer strategy has some merit, back Boehner, show that you're reasonable and avoid the bad PR of a government shortfall. On the other hand, I'd love to see the bluff called for once on economic calamity that has been predicted since TARP to push more and more spending. I'd also like to see the government for once sit down at it's kitchen table and see that it can't pay it's bills. Then and only then, will these clowns in Washington think that it's real money they're spending, because they're out of it. This will be a trial run for the future when there is no more money, and people can see what it will be like. I read in the WSJ yesterday about these small airport subsidies. Cases where the Feds subsidize $200 on a $60 fair to fly 80 miles. I read those stories everyday. This stupidity must and will stop. Blow it up now, or blow it up later. Either way, it blows up.
18 posted on 07/29/2011 6:52:51 AM PDT by throwback ( The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid)
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To: Servant of the Cross
I don’t know whether conservatives have God on their side (I keep getting sent to His voicemail), but I do know that they don’t have Kentucky

Kentucky Senators:
McConnell, Mitch - (R - KY), Paul, Rand - (R - KY)

US House of Representative is 4/2 GOP

The Dems do hold the Governor and state house 59/41, but I would say that any state that sent Rand Paul to the Senate is probably well on the way to being on the side of conservatives.
19 posted on 07/29/2011 6:57:07 AM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority

Well.

We’re insolvent today. We’ll be insolvent tomorrow, and we’ll be insolvent next week, regardless of what happens.

The only question is, what is the best path forward to try to crawl back to solvency at some point in the next decade.

It might well be that as for the choices that we have in front of us for the crisis of this hour, that some sort of creative deal does the least amount of damage possible - given the political reality.


20 posted on 07/29/2011 7:03:21 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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