Cost of US wars since 9/11? At least $3.7 trillion, study finds

Reuters via MSNBC ^ | 06/29/2011

[dragnet2]

Again, 25 years of bad destructive intrusive foreign policies has helped bankrupt the U.S. and looted U.S. treasury/assets.

There are costs of doing business.

In business one makes a profit to survive and stay in business.

Giving away the country's treasure, spending trillions on other countries, and sending the next 10 generations into massive debt, to Communist countries no less, is not what I would consider the cost of doing business.

At this rate, with these policies, instead of the price for doing business, American will be left with a receipt for failure and destruction and debt bill which will enslave future American generations.

This should not be an option for American, but it's the course we're on.

Our military is an expense we're going to have to accept.

You're not following. Read back.

I said I support a fortress American, who can be other countries best friend or worst possibly enemy. Ya pick your friends well...The foreign policies we've pursued for decades now, have not followed common sense and are clearly looting American treasure and resources.

Look, we sail the seven sea with fleets of nuclear submarines, with an unmatched military. Build more, fortress America. There is no need for us to intrude or involve ourselves in the private matters of every other country on earth. Again, those policies for decades now have been an absolute failure which has nearly left America dead on the floor.

I've got big news for you. Americans no longer have the appetite to continue being endlessly involved in these far flung, costly, global police actions/conflicts.

Based on what is happening, when your own home is termite ridden and on fire, the last thing you do is head elsewhere, to spend your resources fighting another house fire. Not a smart move by any description. It's clearly time to rethink strategy and fix and protect our own home.

Otherwise in the end, all you'll have left is bill for debt and destruction.

[DoughtyOne]

I don't particularly mind conversing with you, but if we're going to do this, you need to respond to the things I write.  My post prior to this one was specific, on point, and extensive.  This response of yours ignores most of my comments, almost all if not all my questions, and restates things that I did respond to.  How about going back and addressing my objections.

Again, 25 years of bad destructive intrusive foreign policies has helped bankrupt the U.S. and looted U.S. treasury/assets.

You really do need to go back and read what I wrote to you.  The parts about Reagan being besmirched by your nonsensical comments above, is something that you need to take note of.  The above comment addresses 2.5 years of Reagan's presidency, and you brushed off my comments addressing this.

There are costs of doing business.

In business one makes a profit to survive and stay in business.

We're talking about a nation here, and yes, nations do conduct business.  Bush and Obama (or Congress if you will) combined to increase our national debt by $9 trillion dollars over 11 years.  Our military costs associated with the War on Terrorism is projected to be $1.5 trillion through the end of fiscal year 2012.  That's right, less than 16% of the increased indebtedness of the nation is attributable to the War on Terrorism, and yet that's what you have chosen to focus on here.  If our economy had been kept sound, our revenues would have outstriped the cost of the War on Terrorism by a wide margin.

For this reason, I dismiss your comments regarding us being spent into the pour house based on our determination to stamp out terrorist groups that have targeted us on our soil.  Your comments are nonsensical and you know it.  If you don't know it, what can I say.  I've given you the explanations.  You should be able to understand them.  They're not fraudulent.  They're reasonable.  They're true.

Giving away the country's treasure, spending trillions on other countries, and sending the next 10 generations into massive debt, to Communist countries no less, is not what I would consider the cost of doing business.  You really need to get off this kick of acting like a child on these matters.  When it comes to terrorism, the cost is worth paying to desimate the organizations that targeted us.  As I stated, when it comes to the military, it actually is a matter of revenue, not expenses.  In general with government, it's the other way around.  Under Bush and now Obama, they didn't take care of business and our economy tanked.  If they had done their job, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  Our increased revenues would have been enough to take care of the costs of the war and more.

This idea that we are spending these fund only to better other nations is so sophomoric that it pains me to see you make it.  You honestly can't fathom that taking out terrorist networks might be a plus for the U. S. can you?  You can't actually understand that removing bad governments, building up nations, and making it possible for them to govern themselves could be a plus for us?

We replaced two governments,  We have built up one nation's military and are working on another.  We have spent money on infrastructure on humanitarian grounds.  We have taken out the terrorists on their soil, not on the streets of New York or another U.S. city.

As for our indebtedness to China, we instituted a trade policy that was insane.  We have given China top level technology across the board, even military tech.  And what's more, we have financed China's utilization of that technology.

I have railed on that since the 1993, 94 time frame, as soon as I found out what the game plan was.  And you know what, I've been proven 100% correct.  We're in a real world of hurt with China, and it had absolutely zero to do with our War on Terrorism.

At this rate, with these policies, instead of the price for doing business, American will be left with a receipt for failure and destruction and debt bill which will enslave future American generations.

For the third time in this response alone, the cost of the War on Terrorism IS NOT what has cost this nation dearly.  Our military spending IS NOT what has cost this nation dearly.

This should not be an option for American, but it's the course we're on.

You really are lost in space here.  I'm sorry you can't see it, but that is not my problem.

Our military is an expense we're going to have to accept.

You're not following. Read back.

To the contrary, I have followed your silly logic to the point that you have completely destroyed your credibility.  The indebtedness we have with China is not related to our cost of the war or our military.  It is based on our ignorant and self-destructive trade policy with China.

I said I support a fortress American, who can be other countries best friend or worst possibly enemy. Ya pick your friends well...The foreign policies we've pursued for decades now, have not followed common sense and are clearly looting American treasure and resources.  Yes, as it relates to gifting China, I agree.  We have really screwed the pooch.  We did not screw the pooch by taking it to Hussein, Al Qaeda and the Taliban.  It wasn't a mistake to replace the Taliban Afghanistan government.  It was stupid to burn of about six trillion dollars since Obama became president, printing money for programs that weren't going to amount to anything positive over time.  We've spent that money and didn't accomplish one thing.

Look, we sail the seven sea with fleets of nuclear submarines, with an unmatched military. Build more, fortress America. There is no need for us to intrude or involve ourselves in the private matters of every other country on earth. Again, those policies for decades now have been an absolute failure which has nearly left America dead on the floor.
How many nations have we attacked during the War on Terrorism?  Oh yes, two.  We have attacked terrorist camps inside Pakistan, but we haven't attacked the Pakistan leadership or their military.  There are something close to 170 nations on planet earth.  Please explain your comment that we are intruding into the private matters of every other nation on earth.  God, you are a consummate Leftist.  This drivel is straight out of the Leftist play-book.

I've got big news for you. Americans no longer have the appetite to continue being endlessly involved in these far flung, costly, global police actions/conflicts.

And I've got big news for you.  Conservatives support our military operations and Leftists agree with you.

Based on what is happening, when your own home is termite ridden and on fire, the last thing you do is head elsewhere, to spend your resources fighting another house fire. Not a smart move by any description. It's clearly time to rethink strategy and fix and protect our own home.

Listen real close here.  My home was attacked on 09/11/2001.  The men and women I respect are killing the mother f---ers that thought it was a good idea.  If you don't have the stomach for it, too fricken bad.

Otherwise in the end, all you'll have left is bill for debt and destruction.

In the end, we get a Conservative in the White House, spark the economy, keep spending to a minimum and go about life.

Respond to my other post.

[dragnet2]

Get real, my posts are basically addressing what has occurred in the *decades* since Reagan. Stop the BS nit picking. Reagan has not been president for over two decades..

Listen real close here. My home was attacked on 09/11/2001.

Pull yourself a little closer to the screen and read this.

It's your *own* corrupt government who rolled out the red carpet for these Muslim gangsters, then gave them flight schools, and furnished them with American aircraft to learn to fly, then gave them boarding passes to fly our own aircraft into our own buildings.

Then your government tells you to panic, tells ya your in grave danger, and we now need trillions in tax dollars to fight this gang...Or else something bad will happen...

Then *after* the Muslim gangsters attacked NY & D.C., it was discovered Bush's own homeland security Chief had people who entered this country illegally, wandering around the inside of his *private* residence....During war time...How worried are they doughty?

Under Bush and now Obama, they didn't take care of business and our economy tanked.

lol...Ya mean like the borders during war time? Ya think this is all just happenstance? A whoops? Simply forgetting to do their jobs? Oh geee, we messed up? Please forgive us? Lets politily discuss American borders for the millionth time. Someday, we might even do something about it...

Come on doughty.

Open your eyes to the the big picture being played by the global superwealth insiders and well connected. The dollar is becoming worthless, while they eye international currency standardization, as wide open lawless borders, ten of thousands of American jobs/companies move to Communist countries... Can this be anything other than intentional, with a *few* benefiting and living like kings and sultans?

The rest of America is left to twist in the wind, as they bring your standard of living, the dollar and economy down to levels of others countries...Make the playing field even, make trillions more in profits off dirt cheap foreign labor, open up new markets for profit, only to be sold back to unsuspecting Americans for *huge* profits. America was too free, standard of living too high, used too many resources etc...and put too much money in their own pockets...

Incrementally seize their pensions, 401k, slowly seize their assets..Private wages sinking, they're homes are worth less and less..then force them to bail out the wealthy insiders... Government becomes larger, more controlling. Right before your eyes.

It's all an accident?

Put them on line with everyone else...Ship the resources and American treasure off shore...While plane loads with *tons* tax payer cash comes up missing in these concocted schemes. We just don't know where it went!

They've basically erased and did away with American sovereignty...Ya didn't notice? Ya think this is all a fluke? An accident? Already, we're a De facto borderless sanctuary country...Call it a North American Union.

Call it what ya want.

Your OK with spending **trillions** of American tax dollars going after bathrobe wearing Muslim gangsters where their leader was found living with our (allies) in Pakistani flophouse, who had to use barefoot morons on bicycles as couriers, to send out messages to his gang suggesting they start kidnapping people for ransoms due to lack funds?...Your going to spend trillions of this?

While your wringing your hands, and crying about the Muslim gangsters being welcomed into the U.S., the illegal Mexicans and those from El Salvador, etc, etc, who are also welcomed into the U.S., have killed, rapped, robbed, shot, ran over, knifed, burglarized, maimed and disfigured a **thousand** times more Americans than ANY of these Muslim gangsters.

All while your government forces the American tax payers to subsidize and pick up the bill for this epic country killing invasion.

Is all this an accident? Are you now not told it can't be controlled?

Come on doughty.

[DoughtyOne]

Get real, my posts are basically addressing what has occurred in the *decades* since Reagan. Stop the BS nit picking. Reagan has not been president for over two decades.

You chose the time frame.  I didn't.  You made a number of charges that were supposed to have been part of the political landscape for the last 25 years.  It's not my fault that your own time frame extended two and a half years into the Reagan presidency.  I thought your comments were ill advised and off base, so I addressed the latter Reagan years to get you to realize you were going over the top with your charges.  Intead of discussing that and admitting you may not have been as judicious as you could have been, you took me to task for not letting you get away with this.

The problem you have, is that you are conversing with someone who understands and agrees with you on some points.  At the same time, you are making the claim that there isn't any justification for taking military action outside of our borders.  And while that's not exactly what you have claimed, it's close enough to state what I did.  And so, you alienate me rather than get me to align with you.  I believe you'll alienate a lot of other people with these claims.  One set of people you won't alienate with this, is the extreme Left.  And yet, you don't even care enough about that to address that reality.

There are two groups in the U.S. today that are anti the utilization of our military on foreign soil.  Each of them demands we bring our military home.  You state that you don't want to see our military parred back, but you're quite comfortable with going half-way to what the Left wants, realizing or not how the Left would love to game your efforst to make sure our military is desimated, and fails to be ready for us in time of emergency.  I point this out to you, and I can't even so much as get you to belch in response.  I doesn't matter to you.

Listen real close here. My home was attacked on 09/11/2001.

Pull yourself a little closer to the screen and read this.

It's your *own* corrupt government who rolled out the red carpet for these Muslim gangsters, then gave them flight schools, and furnished them with American aircraft to learn to fly, then gave them boarding passes to fly our own aircraft into our own buildings.

Okay, so you're on the record now saying it takes major corruption to allow people to travel as they have in this nation since it's inception.  Essentially that's about it.  I'm not thrilled with the fact that our intel agencies missed the ques here, but I consider it colossal ignorance, not some grand conspiracy.  If you want to go that route, you're welcome to it.  At some point you wind up having to believe that Bush knew and he approved of the idea to take out our Trade Center buildings.  Well, I'm just not buying into that.

Please explain in detail all the tenticles of this grand conspiracy.  Oh that's right, you don't answer questions.  You just state shot down facts and ask questions of your own based on the endless ways they shoot of in all directions from every new charge.

Then your government tells you to panic, tells ya your in grave danger, and we now need trillions in tax dollars to fight this gang...Or else something bad will happen...

As I stated, $1.5 trillion will have been spent on the War on Terrorism by the end of fiscal year 2012..  Then when you respond to me again, you reference "TRILLIONS" as if I'm not going to notice and call you on it.  Is that reasoned honest discussion?

Panic?  I'm now supposed to have to be paniced, to be willing to agree to take military actions against terrorits?  That's just bazaar.

Yep, it's very unreasonable to think that the mindset that allowed people to carry out 09/11/2001, might actually give them pause to want to do more of the same.  /s  Your premise that this could only be manipulative, and not a viable argument, fails on the weight of it.

Then *after* the Muslim gangsters attacked NY & D.C., it was discovered Bush's own homeland security Chief had people who entered this country illegally, wandering around the inside of his *private* residence....During war time...How worried are they doughty?

What has this to do with taking on the administrative centers of Al Qaeda and the Taliban?  You toss out some factiod, and all of a sudden I'm supposed to lose all contact with reality and agree with everything your say.  It doesn't work that way.  Not all of us are prepared to state that the United States is a grand fiction.  You are.  Fine.  I can live with that.  I'm not buying it, but hey if that's what makes your world go around, so be it.  It doesn't mine.

Under Bush and now Obama, they didn't take care of business and our economy tanked.

lol...Ya mean like the borders during war time? Ya think this is all just happenstance? A whoops? Simply forgetting to do their jobs? Oh geee, we messed up? Please forgive us? Lets politily discuss American borders for the millionth time. Someday, we might even do something about it...

Here you go, changing the subject again rather than address my questions to you.  You're evidently unable to defend your beliefs, so you simply move on when I press you on them.

I believe the border issue is one that is directly related to globalism, some insane aspects of compassion, and a refusal to grasp what these matters are costing our naton.  It is not evidence of a grand conspiracy of people dedicated to taking down the United States through military adventurism and spending us into the poor house.

Come on doughty.

Open your eyes to the the big picture being played by the global superwealth insiders and well connected. The dollar is becoming worthless, while they eye international currency standardization, as wide open lawless borders, ten of thousands of American jobs/companies move to Communist countries... Can this be anything other than intentional, with a *few* benefiting and living like kings and sultans?

No, not all of it can be laid off as innocent, but it is preposterous to claim that there has to be some grand conspiracy if we decide to go after terrorist groups.  I do believe in globalist problems, but you are so far off the reservation in your grand overall conspiracy theories and your refusal to debate the issues, that I have no other choice but to deem you a crackpot.

You refuse to answer my questions, and instead expand on your nutty theories blossoming out into some crackpot truther nonsense that only a wing-nut would buy into.

The rest of America is left to twist in the wind, as they bring your standard of living, the dollar and economy down to levels of others countries...Make the playing field even, make trillions more in profits off dirt cheap foreign labor, open up new markets for profit, only to be sold back to unsuspecting Americans for *huge* profits. America was too free, standard of living too high, used too many resources etc...and put too much money in their own pockets...

Look, I agree with some of what you say, but when it gets to the point that I can't even agree to the need to defend ourselves or I'm part of a grand conspiracy to destroy the United States, I'm going to write you off as two shades to the south of looneyville.

Incrementally seize their pensions, 401k, slowly seize their assets..Private wages sinking, they're homes are worth less and less..then force them to bail out the wealthy insiders... Government becomes larger, more controlling. Right before your eyes.

Good Lord, all this from my support for us taking military actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Okay, please go ahead and tell me what's on the back of soup-can labels, what type of carcinogens are laced in our trash cans, what the Star Spangled Banner played backwards really says...

It's all an accident?

Okay, you have auto accidents.  You have slips and falls on slick side-walks.  You have children wearing holes in their pants and shoes.  Some people get cavities.  Others have to go see the doctor once every three or four years.  Are you getting all this?  Are you saying there isn't any tie-in here?  Haven't you been paying attention?  This is how you sound.  Coupled with the fact that you ignore attempts at reasoned debate on the issue of taking military action in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'm left with no sane person to talk to here.

Put them on line with everyone else...Ship the resources and American treasure off shore...While plane loads with *tons* tax payer cash comes up missing in these concocted schemes. We just don't know where it went!

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

They've basically erased and did away with American sovereignty...Ya didn't notice? Ya think this is all a fluke? An accident? Already, we're a De facto borderless sanctuary country...Call it a North American Union.

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Call it what ya want.

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Your OK with spending **trillions** of American tax dollars going after bathrobe wearing Muslim gangsters where their leader was found living with our (allies) in Pakistani flophouse, who had to use barefoot morons on bicycles as couriers, to send out messages to his gang suggesting they start kidnapping people for ransoms due to lack funds?...Your going to spend trillions of this?

We will have spent $1.5 trillion on the War on Terrorism by the end of fiscal year 2012.  Okay, say after me, A, B, C, D, E, F, G...

"No, there's a P and a Q later on, and you know what that means don't you.  I can't believe you don't know what that means."

Fruit-loop alert...

While your wringing your hands, and crying about the Muslim gangsters being welcomed into the U.S., the illegal Mexicans and those from El Salvador, etc, etc, who are also welcomed into the U.S., have killed, rapped, robbed, shot, ran over, knifed, burglarized, maimed and disfigured a **thousand** times more Americans than ANY of these Muslim gangsters.

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

All while your government forces the American tax payers to subsidize and pick up the bill for this epic country killing invasion.

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Is all this an accident? Are you now not told it can't be controlled?

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Come on doughty.

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[dragnet2]

At the same time, you are making the claim that there isn't any justification for taking military action outside of our borders.

Ya see DO, that's why I'm not reading most your lengthy posts. I see baseless comments and I simply stop reading.

I never once suggested or implied there isn't *any* justification for military action outside of our borders.

Your words not mine.

I'm the guy up thread that spoke of our fleets of nuclear submarines roaming the seven seas..

I'm the guy that said we can be others countries best friend, or very worst enemy.

I'm the guy that said if *we* know where the Muslim gangsters live and train, so do the *they*, the leaders of those countries.

I'm the guy that said take out the top leadership of countries that aid and or harbor these Muslim gangs. Tell them before hand what will happen...And back it up.

Again, my point is there is no need to spend multiple trillions of tax dollars on Muslim gangs, who lack standing armies, navy's etc.....It's ridicules...They can be killed for cheap, and make examples of those that harbor and or aid them....They'll get the message, trust me.

The problem is, is we lack the will for whatever reason to show them brute strength. That destructive compassionate strategy has cost *thousands* of American lives and multiple trillions in tax dollars.

[dragnet2]

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Ya mean this Afghanistan?

Where it's leaders welcome our exit and are pissed because we didn't do and give them more?

___________________________________________________________

Karzai welcomes U.S. troop withdrawal (Expressed dismay at U.S.)

Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday welcomed U.S. President Barack Obama's plans for a U.S. troops drawdown...

Karzai said. "So we are happy about the announcement."

As the United States pulls back, Karzai painted a picture of a more stable Afghanistan, despite the fact that May was the bloodiest month for Afghan civilians since 2007.

He said Afghanistan, dependent on U.S. dollars for security and development, was grateful to American taxpayers, but expressed dismay that U.S. humanitarian efforts have not always taken Afghan wishes into account.

He cited a Kandahar electricity project in which he said the United States spent $250 million to buy generators. Karzai said Afghanistan would have preferred the construction of a dam

__________________________________________________________

Spit*

[DoughtyOne]

At the same time, you are making the claim that there isn't any justification for taking military action outside of our borders.

Ya see DO, that's why I'm not reading most your lengthy posts. I see baseless comments and I simply stop reading.

It's up to you whether you read them or not.  Others do and will continue to do so over the years.  So when you act the part of a lunatic fringe asshole here, it's not me who suffers.

You admit you don't engage in honest debate.  I don't mind that at all.

Yeah, no doubt.  Let's see, our Trade Center buildings are leveled, the Pentagon is damaged heavily, one other aircraft is flown straight into the dirt, but there's no reason to respond militarily.

I deduct from this that you don't think we should ever take military actions outside our borders, and I'm the nutty one?  Nice try.

I never once suggested or implied there isn't *any* justification for military action outside of our borders.

Tell you what, I'm quite comfortable with folks coming to their own conclusions based on what you advocated against, and what I advocated for, that you object to.

Your words not mine.

Okay, then you're going to play the game that unless you specifically say something, I'm never to dare voice what your comments mean to me.  Nice try.

I'm the guy up thread that spoke of our fleets of nuclear submarines roaming the seven seas.

Doing what?  They can't take military action.  You don't approve of them taking military action.  You don't approve of our having boots on the ground outside the U.S.  As you put it, what business is it of ours what other nations do?  Why should our submarines be an exception to that rule?  Bring them home.  We're the major problem in the world.  Why our subs on location are an insult to common international decency.

I'm the guy that said we can be others countries best friend, or very worst enemy.

Why of course we can.  As long as we don't take military action in places like Iraq or Afghanistan, we can still bluster and shout and stomp our feet, and act all offended, just so long as we don't use troops.

I have asked you no less that three times how bombing is working for us in Libya.  So far crickets.  Khadaffy is still there.  He's still causing problems.  The Sudan has now invaded Libya.  And you see this as the model for how we should conduct business from here on out.  You won't even respnd now, because according to you, you don't read my posts.

So in Iraq we would have bombed Hussein.  We would have destroyed their infrastructure.  And when the vaccuum was created, Iran could have waltzed in as it pleased.  And this is your idea of perfect diplomacy.  That's impressive.

I'm the guy that said if *we* know where the Muslim gangsters live and train, so do the *they*, the leaders of those countries.

You're the guy who says a lot of stuff.  It's your listening that is non-existent.  In fact, I don't think you even know what you have said, at least what the full implications are.

I'm the guy that said take out the top leadership of countries that aid and or harbor these Muslim gangs. Tell them before hand what will happen...And back it up.

And I responded that Afghanistan was a poor nation whose leadership was the Taliban.  And all of a sudden, you dropped the subject like a hot potato.  Oh yeah, we bomb the leadership and take them out.  And then the next Taliban team takes over and everything is solved by your measuring stick.  That's just idiotic.
<> Again, my point is there is no need to spend multiple trillions of tax dollars on Muslim gangs,... for at least the fifth time, we will have spent $1.5 trillion on the War on Terrorism by the end of fiscal year 2012.  Gee, you don't read my responses.  Sure couldn't tell...

...who lack standing armies, navy's etc.....It's ridicules...They can be killed for cheap, and make examples of those that harbor and or aid them....They'll get the message, trust me.  I can't even trust you to debate a topic on point, yet you want me to trust your ideas on foreign policy that even you can't or refuse to defend.

<> The problem is, is we lack the will for whatever reason to show them brute strength. That destructive compassionate strategy has cost *thousands* of American lives and multiple trillions in tax dollars.

This is at least the sixth time I have told you that we will have spent $1.5 trillion dollars on the War on Terrorism by the end of fiscal year 2012.  None the less you still spout the figure of "multiple trillions".

You aren't interested in debate.  You're only interested in fronting for Leftists and others who don't want us to use our military.  Oh that's right, even though we can't use our military against the terrorist organizations who took down the Twin Towers, you honestly do believe we can use it.  This just wasn't the time for it.

Well, you Richard Gere, the Socialists, the Leftists, the Liberals, and Ron Paul all agree.  Big whoop....

[DoughtyOne]

And this has what to do with supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Ya mean this Afghanistan?

Where it's leaders welcome our exit and are pissed because we didn't do and give them more?

Yes, I mean the same Afghanistan that our military leaders are saying has come a long way, and looks headed for success.  They state that the Taliban network has been severely damaged, and that the upcoming months may see some sort of a truce requested by them.

___________________________________________________________

Karzai welcomes U.S. troop withdrawal (Expressed dismay at U.S.)

Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday welcomed U.S. President Barack Obama's plans for a U.S. troops drawdown...

Karzai said. "So we are happy about the announcement."

Wow, a foreign nation is happy that we came and improved their lot, and are now intent on leaving.  Why that dastardly despicable so and so.

As the United States pulls back, Karzai painted a picture of a more stable Afghanistan, despite the fact that May was the bloodiest month for Afghan civilians since 2007.

Some of our respected military leaders are saying the same thing.  Does that make them anti-U.S. as well?

He said Afghanistan, dependent on U.S. dollars for security and development, was grateful to American taxpayers, but expressed dismay that U.S. humanitarian efforts have not always taken Afghan wishes into account.

Wow, imagin the temerity of him saying such a thing.   As the President of Afghanistan he shouldn't have his own opinions.  How dare he!!!!

He cited a Kandahar electricity project in which he said the United States spent $250 million to buy generators. Karzai said Afghanistan would have preferred the construction of a dam.

Oh this really does it.  We've never seen our government spend funds in the U.S. in a way we disagreed with.  Imagine the brass it took for Karzai to say a thing like that.  Why I never.

__________________________________________________________

Spit*

[bert]

And was there a study to determine the costs of not engaging in these wars?

The cost of not going to war could be infinitely more.

Peace kills

[dragnet2]

Look, if you want to continue spending the American treasure, what is left of it, and thousands of American lives, spending *years* and trillions in these lands, run by corrupt lazy ungrateful sons a bitches, I can’t help ya and won’t change your mind.

We just disagree on how to kill off the Muslim gang members. You want to justify the U.S. spending trillions, American lives, and *years* on their soils. I’d do it much more efficiently and at the same time, gain back the world respect back the U.S. once had right after WWII.

Karzai is pissed we didn’t do enough and wants more stuff.

Where’s that dam?

How about some new planes?

More air conditioning for the palace?

__________________________________________________________

Karzai welcomes U.S. troop withdrawal (Expressed dismay at U.S.)

Karzai said. “So we are happy about the announcement.”

He said Afghanistan, dependent on U.S. dollars for security and development, was grateful to American taxpayers, but expressed dismay that U.S. humanitarian efforts have not always taken Afghan wishes into account.

He cited a Kandahar electricity project in which he said the United States spent $250 million to buy generators. Karzai said Afghanistan would have preferred the construction of a dam

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2738927/posts

[SeekAndFind]

RE: The cost of not going to war could be infinitely more.

It really is very hard to prove a counter-factual.

[DoughtyOne]

Your ability to repost the same statements is quite impressive. Your ability to show any comprehension skills whatsoever, not so much.

Why not address our War on Terrorism costs as tens of trillions since you’re going to make stuff up at will anyway?

Yes I agree with spending tens of trillions of dollars on the war on terrorism, spending our entire treasure, and basically destroying the United States by attacking terrorists who attacked us.

At least I’m not in bed with Richard Gere, the folks at D.U. the DailyKos and the Huffington Post.

Yes we do disagree on how to kill off the terrorists. I support doing it, and you don’t. It’s not possible to destroy the Taliban who are living in caves and other territory where air-strikes can’t work. Okay, you didn’t know that. Chalk one more issue up that you haven’t a clue about.

[dragnet2]

At least I’m not in bed with Richard Gere, the folks at D.U. the DailyKos and the Huffington Post.

To be honest, I have no idea who Gere is...

Yes we do disagree on how to kill off the terrorists. I support doing it, and you don’t.

Once again, I never suggested or implied that. Those are your words.

It’s not possible to destroy the Taliban who are living in caves and other territory where air-strikes can’t work.

So spend years, trillions, and thousands of American lives playing cat and mouse with some cave dwellers? Then, the leader of the cave dwellers country stands up and welcomes our departure and then complains we didn't do enough.

Uh huh...

Their biggest weapon so far was open ended destructive American immigration policy, and an American owned 767.

Did we learn our lessons? Obviously not.

I'm surprised these gangsters having drivin several tractor trailers into this country packed with something a bit more dangerous than the usual 150 Mexicans.

If the Mexicans can import a 2 thousand tons of dope every year...Well, one not need be a senior national security adviser to take notice of this potential nightmare...Yet our borders remain a lawless free for all.

While we're chasing the cave dwellers in Bullcrapistan, a rusted ship ports in Mexico, one of the most corrupt countries on earth, where the officials down there can be bribed with ugly prostitutes and cheap beer...Could already be here, setting up for the big show. Park one at Wallymart in downtown Dallas, the other in Chicago? LA? D.C.?

Heck, this would be easier for the gangsters than us teaching them how to fly our own aircraft! All while the government shakes down, sniffs, scans and searches grandma flying to Aunt Bees house.

How is it these people are so dangerous, attacked us on our own soil, yet our borders resemble a lawless Boston Marathon of millions?

Hmmm..

[DoughtyOne]

Here, let me help you.

At least I’m not in bed with Richard Gere, the folks at D.U. the DailyKos and the Huffington Post.

To be honest, I have no idea who Gere is...

He's been leading your keep the troops home efforts since 09/12/2001.  He was the first to explain we weren't justified to take the fight to the terrorists.  You guys agree on a lot.

Yes we do disagree on how to kill off the terrorists. I support doing it, and you don’t.

Once again, I never suggested or implied that. Those are your words.

We have killed of tens of thousands of people who wanted to terrorize us and the Iraqi people in Iraq.  We have killed off thousands more in Afghanistan.  This really upsets you.  You should remember this.  We had boots on the ground.  We spent tens of trillions to do it.  We've destroyed the United States in the process.  Yada, yada, yada...  You don't remember your earlier comments?

It’s not possible to destroy the Taliban who are living in caves and other territory where air-strikes can’t work.

So spend years, trillions, and thousands of American lives playing cat and mouse with some cave dwellers? Then, the leader of the cave dwellers country stands up and welcomes our departure and then complains we didn't do enough.

Oh, things didn't go exactly the way I wanted them to, I didn't even want us there in the first place, and I knew they wouldn't.  Waaaaaaaaaaaa...  You've destroyed the United States.  Yes you have.

We've spent tens of trillions of dollars, we've lost the lives of our service members for the first time in the Republic's history.  We've played cat and mouse with cave dwellers.  The head cave dweller hurt my feelings, and I'm going to toss a hissy fit that looks just like the ones tossed on D.U., the Daily KOS, the Huffington Post and other Leftist havens of my fellow travelers.

Uh huh...

Their biggest weapon so far was open ended destructive American immigration policy, and an American owned 767.

But of course Osama Bin Laden operating in Asia and nearby parts, wasn't a threat at all.  Just because he and friendly operatives masterminded it all, don't think we have anything to gain by taking out their infrastructure, their communications network and their heirarchy.  These are just Islamic Muslim gangs.  Islamic Muslim gangs can't do anything to us.  Why they're a rag tag bunch of nobodies, and it's ridiculous to think they could harm us.  It was just a figment of your imaginiation that we were hit on 09/11/2001.

Did we learn our lessons? Obviously not.

Change the subject much?

I'm surprised these gangsters having drivin several tractor trailers into this country packed with something a bit more dangerous than the usual 150 Mexicans.

And this has what to do with our discussion about whether it was reasoned to fight a land war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

If the Mexicans can import a 2 thousand tons of dope every year...Well, one not need be a senior national security adviser to take notice of this potential nightmare...Yet our borders remain a lawless free for all.

Once again, this is an issue for discussion at a different time.  We were discussing the land war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Try real hard.  I know you can focus if you just try.

While we're chasing the cave dwellers in Bullcrapistan, a rusted ship ports in Mexico, one of the most corrupt countries on earth, where the officials down there can be bribed with ugly prostitutes and cheap beer...Could already be here, setting up for the big show. Park one at Wallymart in downtown Dallas, the other in Chicago? LA? D.C.?

Yep, but when I talk of being able to fight a two theater war, you assure me we don't need that capability.  Remember, I beleive it was you that reminded me that we survived from 1790 or so to around 1940 with only a zero theater capability.  Okay, were not fighting in Mexico.  You should be thrilled.  We can't enter another nation.  Other nations have a right to conduct their affairs any way they like.  Remember?  We can't lose troops or pay out funds to finance ground wars.  Other nations will hate us.  You do recall this right?

Heck, this would be easier for the gangsters than us teaching them how to fly our own aircraft! All while the government shakes down, sniffs, scans and searches grandma flying to Aunt Bees house.

And this has what to do with whether we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan?  You really do have an ADD problem don't you.

How is it these people are so dangerous, attacked us on our own soil, yet our borders resemble a lawless Boston Marathon of millions?

And this has what to do with whether we should be in Iraq and Afghanistan?  Oh that's right, nothing.  It is another issue worth addressing, but we're not having that conversation.  We're having a conversation about whether we should be in Iraq or not.  We're having a conversation about whether we should be in Afghanistan or not.

Hmmm..

Yes, hmmmm...

[dragnet2]

How is it these people are so dangerous, attacked us on our own soil, yet our borders continue to resemble a lawless Boston Marathon of millions, not to mention a national security time bomb.

And this has what to do with whether we should be in Iraq and Afghanistan?

It seems you lost all sight regarding why we went to those places in the first place. Of course, Iraq had little to do with all that.

Afghanistan is simply a lost cause...

One Freeper put it so well:

________________________________________________________

They will never stop fighting in Afghanistan. Never. They don't want to stop. Fighting and killing is what they do. They like it.

"I against my brother, my brothers and me against my cousins, then my cousins and I against foreigners."

They fought each other until the Brits showed up and then they fought the Brits. After the Brits left, they fought each other until the Russians showed up, then they fought the Russians. When the Russians left, they went back to fighting each other until WE showed up.

They'll fight us until we leave and then go back to shooting each other. _________________________________________________________

But feel free to continue staying in Afghanistan for the next 10 or 30 years...Spend trillions more tax dollars..More American getting picked off on a weekly basis...What the hell!

[DoughtyOne]

How is it these people are so dangerous, attacked us on our own soil, yet our borders continue to resemble a lawless Boston Marathon of millions, not to mention a national security time bomb.

And this has what to do with whether we should be in Iraq and Afghanistan?

It seems you lost all sight regarding why we went to those places in the first place. Of course, Iraq had little to do with all that.

It seems you can't stick with the subject more than about two or three sentences.  As for Iraq, funny how we killed thousands of terrorists there, but of course it was a bad place to go, had nothing to do with terrorism or 09/11/2001.  Yes, someone did lose sight of what the objective was, and that objective was to take out terrorists and their networks.  That mission is being accomplished.  I'm sorry you hadn't noticed.

Afghanistan is simply a lost cause...

That's interesting, because our military leaders see progress in Afghanistan.  Please tell us why you know more than they do.  In recent days Pakistan has also launched a military operation to neutralized problematic Taliban tribes in the Northwest, near the Afghanistan border.  I guess that would be a bad thing though.  I'm certain it doesn't mean to you that we're making progress, even though Pakistan had been reluctant to do this even months ago.

One Freeper put it so well:

________________________________________________________

They will never stop fighting in Afghanistan. Never. They don't want to stop. Fighting and killing is what they do. They like it.

"I against my brother, my brothers and me against my cousins, then my cousins and I against foreigners."

They fought each other until the Brits showed up and then they fought the Brits. After the Brits left, they fought each other until the Russians showed up, then they fought the Russians. When the Russians left, they went back to fighting each other until WE showed up.

They'll fight us until we leave and then go back to shooting each other. _________________________________________________________

But feel free to continue staying in Afghanistan for the next 10 or 30 years...Spend trillions more tax dollars..More American getting picked off on a weekly basis...What the hell!

Why didn't you just say, "Feel free to stay in Afghanistan for the next 1000 to 3000 years"?  I mean this is a break from your normal tactics on these matters.  We've spent tens of trillions, haven't made any progress and never will, and we'll be there for thousands of years.  Oh yes, and we have destroyed the United States, just ruined it for our kids and the whole world.  Why don't you just come out and say what you really think.  We're war criminals and enemies of the state in the United States.  Oh wait, the United States government agrees with us.  Oops, I forgot.  The leaders of the United States want to destroy the nation too.  We're in cahoots.

LMAO

[dragnet2]

Only a few million more American hating A-rabs and muzzies gangsters left to kill...We'll straighten out Afghanistan alright. Should only take a few more years. Make it respectable.

You bet

The U.S. does not seek out conflict, but it will go to the ends of the earth to conquer the evil

That's very commendable. Just curious, where did you serve?

[NoLibZone]

All that to protect a city that hates us.

When the next attacks occur , I hope our reaction is much more muted.

[DoughtyOne]

Only a few million more American hating A-rabs and muzzies gangsters left to kill...We'll straighten out Afghanistan alright. Should only take a few more years. Make it respectable.

You bet

Once again Sparky, what do you know that our military leaders don't know?  I'm sure they'd be interested in your inside connections.

The U.S. does not seek out conflict, but it will go to the ends of the earth to conquer the evil

That's very commendable. Just curious, where did you serve?

You do know this is a voluntary service right?  Who is being forced to serve against their will?

This attempt to make me the focus rather than keep focused on the issue we're discussing, is merely one more shameful tactic you have used in this discussion.

You lie about how much money has been spent.  You lie about what the long term prognosis is.  You try to bring everything else you can into this discussion, to run from the truth.

Iraq is unquestionably a better nation today than it was.  We have far less to fear from radical groups in Iraq than we did.  The Iraqi government now has a trained military that can address the issues of terrorism on it's own soil.  We're headed in the same direction in Afghanistan, and you refuse to acknowledge any of this.

You can't acknowledge it, because it destroys your vision for how things should be done.  None of this could have been accomplished with just bombing alone.  It has been facilitated by boots on the ground.

We have put boots on the ground in foreign nations since at least the 1790 time frame, when we took action against the Barbary Pirates in Northern Africa.  President Thomas Jefferson was President at the time.  Perhaps you've heard of him.  I guess in your twisted idiotic dumb ass world view, Thomas Jefferson was also trying to bankrupt our nation, and turn it over to a global cabal.

[Domalais]

Okay, then you're on the record with the idea that the world hasn't changed, it's not a more dangerous place today, and that we should go back to the rock solid plan of allowing our mililtary to decay between major conflicts. Is that about it? It's what you advocated for with that idiotic statement.

All talk, no content.

The world is a safer place now that the cold war is over, and requires a strong adjustment of military spending away from large, heavy units and nuclear weapons and to a flexible force designed to deploy smaller elements.


Lets take a look at the U.S. budget growth over the last 11 years. When George Bush came into office, the U.S. debt was pegged at about $5.9 trillion dollars. By the end of this year, it will be somewhere close to $15 trillion. That's nine trillion dollars in growth over 11 years.

You are regurgitating GOP talking points without even thinking about them. You can't measure the change in the budget by measuring the change in the debt. There was a recession; that reduces tax revenues and increases the size of the deficit even without budget increases. Obama's proposed 2012 budget is $800 billion more than Bush's 2008 budget. That's $3.7 trillion vs. $2.9 trillion, for hard numbers.

Adding up all the budgets 2009-2012, which is being less than fair to the administration because the 2009 budget was Bush's and the 2012 money hasn't been spent yet, Obama has spent $2.6 trillion more than if the country had stayed firm at the $2.9 trillion budget in 2008 for all the years since.

What you do not understand, and what the vast majority of your fellow faux-conservatives do not understand, is that Obama is not the cause of this country's spending problem. This country had a spending problem before Obama, and will have one after he is gone. The GOP, all the RINOs in it, and everyone who has ever voted for them, are just as much to blame for the deficit as liberals and Democrats. Bush inherited a $1.9 trillion budget, and increased it to $2.9 before he left office.


Going back to the 2008 budget is not enough. Anyone who proposes it is a blind defender of President Bush and/or the GOP. The government needs to trim spending to 2000 or 2001 levels at the very least in order to get national spending under control.

Oookay..., we've got another peace nimrod on our hands. Put daisies in our gun-barrels and swish on over and give our enemies a big fat wet one.

Yes. I'm such a big peacenik hippie that I'm on active duty right now. Keep talking, I could use a good laugh.


Explain to us oh Mighty Kong, what would you have done after 09/11?

Invade Afghanistan, depose the Taliban, destroy them and Al-Qaeda, and leave Iraq the fuck alone because they had nothing to do with 9/11. Just as with the budget, you're a GOP RINO Robot stuck in Bush-Protect-Mode. It's over. He's out of office. He's not running in 2012. It's okay to say that he made mistakes.


Thomas Jefferson, as President, sent our military over to Africa to address the Barbary Pirates. You do know that Jefferson was a Founding Father, right?

Are you a sockpuppet of VeniVediVeci? Maybe you didn't see where I corrected him higher up in the thread... he didn't respond, and I'm sure you won't either:

Tripoli, and the other Barbary states, directly attacked American vessels, captured Americans, and kept them as slaves. They demanded (and were paid) enormous sums as tribute for the return of the sailors and to prevent further attacks. These attacks were directly endorsed and supported by each state's government. In 1795, 1/6th of the entire federal budget was paid in tribute and ransom to the Muslim states.

Comparing Tripoli to Iraq or even Afghanistan is laughable at best.

Tell that to the people of Iraq, who are not being slaughtered by their own leader, his sons, and terrorist among them. Their daughters are going to school for the first time. There are women in the government. Tell me who didn't win there, I'd like to know.

Pure, unfiltered Neoconservative lunacy. Let's invade every nondemocratic country on the planet one by one to fix them and give them some FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY and AMERICAN WAY! We'll figure out how we'll afford it later, let's not stop until there's a McDonalds on every city block in every nation on earth! WOOO!

#1) We can't afford it.

#2) It's not our job.

#3) It's unconstitutional.

#4) We have better things to spend our money on here at home.

#5) You are not a conservative.