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Legalize cannabis? Not so fast, say medics
Bermuda Sun ^ | June 22, 2011 | Raymond Hainey

Posted on 06/22/2011 11:34:42 PM PDT by AustralianConservative

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To: alexander_busek

How dare you use logic? /s ;0)


51 posted on 06/23/2011 12:31:31 AM PDT by freepersup (Today, we raise our glasses of spirits and mugs of ale high- to Budge.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
The Commissioners of The Global Commission on Drug Policy: [...]

And the point of your Ad Hominem innuendo is... ?

Regards,

52 posted on 06/23/2011 12:35:27 AM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: Berlin_Freeper
If youngsters were seeking to "self-medicate" with marijuana then they would be doing better.

Better than what? Alcohol or tobacco? I agree.

53 posted on 06/23/2011 12:35:35 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: nickcarraway

I never thought to myself we should tax anything, except China and Mexico.


54 posted on 06/23/2011 12:36:05 AM PDT by enduserindy (Conservative Dead Head)
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To: freepersup

If you want to count the crazy people who become helpless homeless bums, added to others from cancer and car wrecks then I would say many millions over the years.


55 posted on 06/23/2011 12:36:53 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: alexander_busek
Growing, drying, and refining tobacco is difficult, that is probably why the Indians never developed cigarettes, we would all be growing our own to replace Marlboros, if it was possible.

Indians used it sparingly, ceremonially, and my own Indian grandmother grew her own for chewing, but she couldn't have produced cigarettes, and she is the only member in the family that used that coarse tobacco.

56 posted on 06/23/2011 12:37:40 AM PDT by ansel12 (America has close to India population of 1950s, India has 1,200,000,000 people now. Quality of Life?)
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To: ansel12

Growing good marijuana for smoking is relatively expensive and takes a good deal of time and knowledge. It’s not cheap or easy.


57 posted on 06/23/2011 12:38:56 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: TigersEye

I see your attention span gave way, so soon too.

But if you now want to talk about alcohol and tobacco then you should be aware there are 400 chemicals in marijuana and a smoker gets more tar than cigarettes.


58 posted on 06/23/2011 12:42:48 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Since YOU are such an expert on marijuana, why don’t you tell me just exactly how much marijuana you’ve consumed in your research??? YOU STILL DIDN”T ANSWER MY ORIGINAL QUESTION WITH ANY SEMBLANCE OF FACT OR ACCURACY (why do you suppose that is?)

PS- As a courtesy; I’m going to go to bed (right) now, and will have to resume contact at a later time/date. toodle do


59 posted on 06/23/2011 12:45:17 AM PDT by freepersup (Today, we raise our glasses of spirits and mugs of ale high- to Budge.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

It’s not my fault your scribblings are incomprehensible. I notice you quit on the other thread when I challenged you to address the actual subject of it. That’s beyond your mental ability.


60 posted on 06/23/2011 12:45:20 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: berdie

People who make money from the sales of drugs are called drug dealers. You want them in charge of your country?


61 posted on 06/23/2011 12:45:50 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: TigersEye; ansel12
I am, of course, aware that the manufacture of cigarettes - at least as it is now conducted in the 21st century - is a highly complicated industrial process requiring all kinds of process engineering skills, a deep understanding of chemistry, etc.

And I am profoundly sorry and apologize, ansel12, if my "throw-away" remark about "even" the Indians being able to grow tobacco caused offense (it was NOT my intent).

But the whole topic ("how difficult to manufacture," "taxable?") is a side-issue. The fact is that the "War on (Certain) Drugs" has promoted the growth of an, at best, morally ambiguous, para-military drug-law enforcement agency with vast police powers in this country (with extensive activities in OTHER countries!) whose powers deserve being clipped.

Regards,

62 posted on 06/23/2011 12:47:04 AM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: freepersup

I am no expert that is why I gave you my estimate which is many millions for both alcohol and marijuana.

How many deaths do you require?

Good night, I hope you wake up wiser.


63 posted on 06/23/2011 12:47:41 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: alexander_busek

That is the greater point. No doubt about it.


64 posted on 06/23/2011 12:48:50 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: nickcarraway
People who make money from the sales of drugs are called drug dealers. You want them in charge of your country?

Hmmm, let me see: How many millions do lobbyists for the drug industry (Bayer, etc.) and the alcohol industry, and the tobacco industry currently spend to influence our legislators?

I'd say that the REAL drug dealers are ALREADY in charge of our country!

Regards,

65 posted on 06/23/2011 12:49:33 AM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: TigersEye

LoL!

I tend to not answer flames.

But I do so now, because in the other thread you admonished me for referencing your cop hater attitude from another thread with your pro marijuana agenda.

Now, you are bringing up another thread yourself.

You do remember that don’t you?

It’s only been about two hours ago.


66 posted on 06/23/2011 12:52:22 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: alexander_busek

Yes, and they just forced a healthcare law on us to make trillions, and not a single politician in this country will protect us. I for one, am not ready for more.


67 posted on 06/23/2011 12:52:48 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Wow. Where’ve you been?


68 posted on 06/23/2011 12:53:44 AM PDT by enduserindy (Conservative Dead Head)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
I tend to not answer flames.

That's very funny. On a half dozen thread on a half dozen topics you begin with an ad-hominem to me and then find yourself looking like a fool. I guess you don't learn too quickly.

69 posted on 06/23/2011 12:54:23 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: alexander_busek; Grizzled Bear; LukeL
Atropa belladonna (deadly nightshade) is a valuable plant in the treatment of eye diseases on account of its power of dilating the pupil. Locally applied, it lessens irritability and pain, and is used as a lotion, plaster or liniment in cases of neuralgia, gout, rheumatism and sciatica. Small doses allay cardiac palpitation, and the plaster is applied to the cardiac region for the same purpose, removing pain and distress. It is a powerful antispasmodic in intestinal colic and spasmodic asthma. For its action on the circulation, it is given in the collapse of pneumonia, typhoid fever and other acute diseases. It is of value in acute sore throat, and relieves local inflammation and congestion.

Conium maculatum (hemlock) is a sedative and antispasmodic, and in sufficient doses acts as a paralyser to the centers of motion. It has been recommended as an antidote to Strychnine poisoning, and in tetanus, hydrophobia, etc. On account of its peculiar sedative action on the motor centers, Hemlock juice is prescribed as a remedy in cases of undue nervous motor excitability, such as teething in children, epilepsy, cramps, in the early stages of paralysis, in spasms of the larynx and gullet, in acute mania, etc. As an inhalation it is said to relieve cough in bronchitis, whooping cough, asthma, etc.

American Poison Ivy (Rhus Toxicodendron) is one of the species of Sumachs. The bark is tonic, astringent, and antiseptic - the berries refrigerant and diuretic. The bark, in decoction or syrup, has been found useful in gonorrhea, leucorrhoea, diarrhea, dysentery, hectic fever, scrofula and profuse perspiration from debility. A diluted fluid extract affords an agreeable gargle in angina. The berries may be used in infusion in diabetes, bowel complaints, and febrile diseases; also as a gargle in ulcerations of the mouth and throat, and as a wash for ringworm, offensive ulcers, etc.

The Union: The Business Behind Getting High

70 posted on 06/23/2011 12:54:44 AM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: AustralianConservative
I'd like it legal (not taxed) but the arguing and arguments have become wearisome. Same old BS from the same old impenetrably righteous and/or ignorant crowd.

71 posted on 06/23/2011 12:55:08 AM PDT by I see my hands (Embrace misanthropy)
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To: enduserindy

Oops wrong guy i think.


72 posted on 06/23/2011 12:55:08 AM PDT by enduserindy (Conservative Dead Head)
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To: berdie
I know a whole lot about growing and selling pot, it takes nothing and literally everyone can do it, even the homeless, and people living in apartments.

The pot that actor Martin Milner’s kids used came from a couple of bushes in my front yard in Southern California.

Growing quality plants is easy, the plant is very attractive, and the resulting pot has a long shelf life (years). Guys will grow all the free pot they want, and they will try to outdo each other, the nation will be saturated with free pot.

If one single tomato plant could give you all the tomatoes that you needed, and keep you high for the entire year, and tomatoes were heavily taxed like booze and cigarettes, then everyone would plant a tomato plant every year, and if they didn't, there would be plenty of surplus from friends and neighbors.

73 posted on 06/23/2011 12:55:16 AM PDT by ansel12 (America has close to India population of 1950s, India has 1,200,000,000 people now. Quality of Life?)
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To: alexander_busek

I’m still rereading your post. I guess I’m not deep enough to understand you.

From what I understand...a small amount of marijuana or even a plant at home...is a ticketed offense. Much like smoking a cigarette in a restaurant. (at least it is where I live). You may not have to worry about being raped.

Now....if you have a field growing..you may need to be worried.

Since I am a wino..I really don’t care. ;)


74 posted on 06/23/2011 12:56:18 AM PDT by berdie (qill)
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To: TigersEye

“Correlation does not equal causation”? Good red herring there. No evidence is ever good enough for potheads: from brain scan imaging to potheads defecating in parks.


75 posted on 06/23/2011 12:56:52 AM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: Berlin_Freeper
But I do so now, because in the other thread you admonished me for referencing your cop hater attitude from another thread with your pro marijuana agenda. Now, you are bringing up another thread yourself.

Actually I didn't say a word about you breaking forum rules by doing that. I simply responded by reminding you how corrupt your thinking was on that thread. Cute how you sneak in another ad-hominem though. And another lie at that. That makes two lies in your latest post.

76 posted on 06/23/2011 12:57:01 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: Grizzled Bear

His point was not that it is “natural” and therefor “safe”, but that alcohol has similar health risks, yet is legal. Tobacco also has health risks, yet is legal. Glue and spray paint huffing by children is also a health risk, yet the sale of those products is legal.

Free people are expected to evaluate the potential consequences of their actions, and they generally do pretty well at it without a nanny-state eliminating their choices. If individuals make poor choices and eliminate themselves from the gene pool, well, the species will be better off in the long run.


77 posted on 06/23/2011 12:59:08 AM PDT by Kellis91789 (There's a reason the mascot of the Democratic Party is a jackass.)
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To: freepersup

Dude, let’s legalize LSD lollipops for kids too. Pass me some more Doritos. Jimi Hendrix served his country, what’s your point?


78 posted on 06/23/2011 12:59:17 AM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: AustralianConservative

You are the master of red herrings. Substantive debate is beyond your abilities.


79 posted on 06/23/2011 1:00:14 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: I see my hands

Yeah same old arguments – so let’s be good libertarians and censor debates. Actually, I find the science very interesting as do many people.


80 posted on 06/23/2011 1:00:42 AM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: alexander_busek

“It should therefore be left to the INDIVIDUAL to decide what is best for him!”

Only to a certain degree.

Those who smoke a lot of pot or smoke pot regularly are not to be trusted with heavy machinery, serious responsibility, or, most importantly, with dependents. I don’t care about any studies you cite or don’t cite, I know this for a fact.

Wouldn’t leave my kids with a pot smoker babysitter - would you?


81 posted on 06/23/2011 1:01:24 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: TigersEye

It sounds like you’re projecting. But how about picking on drug drivers? One word: Priorities.


82 posted on 06/23/2011 1:02:14 AM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: ansel12
Yet almost all of us have witnessed the instant change into pot uniformity by teens, over, and over, and over, and over,

I personally never saw it in my teens, or all throughout high school, for that matter. In Austin, of all places! I see uniformity here, but it's not the teens I'm worried about. Just be careful what you wish for, is my parting point.
83 posted on 06/23/2011 1:02:19 AM PDT by andyk (Interstate <> Intrastate)
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To: AustralianConservative

The catch here is that there’s likely no ethical way to test whether pot “causes” schizophrenia, or is merely preferred by people who already have a tendency to become schizophrenic. That would take a lot of pot smoking. Animal models might be illuminating, but crazy monkeys are dangerous.


84 posted on 06/23/2011 1:02:19 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: AustralianConservative
Dude, let’s legalize LSD lollipops for kids too.

See? That's a straw man logical fallacy. No one has said anything about legalizing any drugs for children. If required to debate on the substance or stay in context you simply cannot do it. No self control I guess.

85 posted on 06/23/2011 1:02:47 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: ansel12

That’s pretty interesting. But is it information that should be shared?


86 posted on 06/23/2011 1:03:28 AM PDT by berdie (qill)
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To: TigersEye
Nonsense, see post 73, growing pot is easy, that is why they can grow it anywhere, even unattended, in the Northern California forests.
87 posted on 06/23/2011 1:03:49 AM PDT by ansel12 (America has close to India population of 1950s, India has 1,200,000,000 people now. Quality of Life?)
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To: Persevero
Those who smoke a lot of pot or smoke pot regularly are not to be trusted with heavy machinery, serious responsibility, or, most importantly, with dependents. I don’t care about any studies you cite or don’t cite, I know this for a fact.

I can handle heavy machinery, serious responsibility and take care of a dependent quite well. So do many other heavy pot smokers that I know. Your facts are bunkum.

88 posted on 06/23/2011 1:04:38 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: TigersEye

I’d never let my kid be babysat by a pot smoker. Hope your kids turn out ok.


89 posted on 06/23/2011 1:05:38 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: AustralianConservative
But how about picking on drug drivers? One word: Priorities.

I suppose those sentences make sense to you but to normal people that's gibberish.

90 posted on 06/23/2011 1:05:50 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: Persevero

Good point – and while libertarians are getting stoned or in their think tanks I’ve had to deal with the consequences of soft on drug policies.

These people are drugs-first libertarians. They always defend drugs like a fired up preacher but never a man’s right to question them. They’re beyond accountability.


91 posted on 06/23/2011 1:06:16 AM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: freepersup
“Someone on THIS thread PLEASE tell me how many deaths marijuana (illegal) has caused... and how many deaths alcohol (legal) has caused???????????????????????????”

This is an intelligent question why?

Of course alcohol has caused more deaths because it IS legal....and in what world does your imagination swim in thinking that when marijuana is legalized that the statistics won't eventually catch up or surpass?

92 posted on 06/23/2011 1:06:27 AM PDT by Puckster
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To: savagesusie

“We legalize drug use and have government subsidize the losers ...”

I’d agree it is either/or, but why not fight for eliminating the government subsidy of losers rather than against individual freedoms ? Let these people be stoned and starve to death so they delete their weak genes for the gene pool.


93 posted on 06/23/2011 1:06:38 AM PDT by Kellis91789 (There's a reason the mascot of the Democratic Party is a jackass.)
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To: berdie

Why not, aren’t you guys pushing to legalize what they were doing?


94 posted on 06/23/2011 1:07:55 AM PDT by ansel12 (America has close to India population of 1950s, India has 1,200,000,000 people now. Quality of Life?)
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To: berdie
But is it information that should be shared?

Is a lack of information what we all need to make informed decisions? I notice that many here like to try and shout down opposing views like liberals on college campuses do. You don't want that do you?

95 posted on 06/23/2011 1:08:21 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: TigersEye

So you do believe in laws when they suit you? And restrictions for your choice drugs? Talk about circular thinking. In any case, softening pot laws increase more drug use in general. I’ve lived in Europe. Doesn’t work.


96 posted on 06/23/2011 1:08:58 AM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: ansel12

It’s lousy quality pot if it’s not tended regularly. Most of what’s grown in the Sierras has a lot of money invested in irrigation, fertilizer and onsite growers to tend it and it’s still inferior to what most hydroponic growers produce.


97 posted on 06/23/2011 1:10:17 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

There’s no ethical way to prove it? Rubbish. I’ve seen the brain scans. Read the Oxford literature. In any case, when it doubt go without: If one isn’t sure it can be tested then don’t dare experiment on brains.


98 posted on 06/23/2011 1:11:18 AM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: Puckster

Here’s a clue for ya...the most widely abused drugs are perscription drugs...

And anyone who wants to smoke pot...already is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_-dtU_esJ8

William F Buckley & Charlie Rangel debate war on drugs circa ‘91

Buckley wipes the floor with Rangle....check it out...


99 posted on 06/23/2011 1:11:45 AM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '12)
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To: andyk; AustralianConservative; ansel12

“However, high-dose smokers develop pulmonary symptoms (episodes of acute bronchitis, wheezing, coughing, and increased phlegm), and pulmonary function may be altered, manifested as large airway changes of unknown significance.”

So...maybe you should post the rest of the story. BTW, this is from your link to Merck.

It’s not harmless.

I can’t help but believe that smoking pot isn’t akin to smoking cigarettes, but with a much better mellow.


100 posted on 06/23/2011 1:11:53 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Age, skill, wisdom, and a little treachery will always overcome youth and arrogance!)
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