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Now popular Republicans 'not natural-born citizens'
World Net Daily ^ | May 22, 2011 | Joe Kovacs

Posted on 05/23/2011 12:43:41 AM PDT by Brown Deer

Rising stars of GOP in doubt because parents from overseas

Are U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal natural-born citizens of the United States, and thus eligible for the presidency?

Plotkin says Jindal's mother became a U.S. citizen Sept. 21, 1976, and his father was naturalized 10 years later on Dec. 4, 1986.

It's a similar situation for Rubio, as his press secretary Alex Burgos said the senator's parents "were permanent legal residents of the U.S." at the time Marco was born in 1971.

Then four years after Marco was born, "Mario and Oriales Rubio became naturalized U.S. citizens on Nov. 5, 1975," Burgos told WND.


(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: birther; certifigate; enoughalready; hopespringseternal; jindal; naturalborncitizen; president; rubio; worldnutdaily
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1 posted on 05/23/2011 12:43:45 AM PDT by Brown Deer
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To: Bikkuri; warsaw44; ColdOne; wintertime; Fred Nerks; null and void; stockpirate; PhilDragoo; ...


A QUESTION OF ELIGIBILITY
2 posted on 05/23/2011 12:45:15 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer
Okay I am confused wouldn't this mean Obama isn't natural born if his dad wasn't a citizen? Or am I confused which could very well be.
3 posted on 05/23/2011 12:58:28 AM PDT by funfan
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To: funfan

“Obama isn’t natural born if his dad wasn’t a citizen?”
______________________________________

That was my understanding, but apparently there has never been a court case to set a precedent for anyone.

If Obozo can get away with being called a NBC, ANYONE can.


4 posted on 05/23/2011 1:10:19 AM PDT by AlexW (Proud eligibility skeptic)
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To: funfan
You're not confused.

No laws apply to soetoro/obama/the messiah. he's speshual. doncha know that? LOL

5 posted on 05/23/2011 1:13:49 AM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: funfan

Natural born citizen is an eligibility requirement to be President of the U.S.A. (A natural born citizen is born in a nation of citizen parents. This is natural law.)

It is NOT a statutory type of citizenship.

The statutory citizenship types can be found below:

USCIS - Citizenship

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=a2ec6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=a2ec6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD

1) Native born citizenship - born in the United States. Gov. Bobby Jindal was born in Louisiana to parents who were Indian citizens residing in the U.S.A. legally. There are exception to this, such as the children of foreign diplomats and those not in the country legally.

2) Derived citizenship - children born to U.S. citizens in foreign lands “derive” their citizenship from their parents. Sen. John S. McCain was born in Panama to U.S. citizen parents.

3) Naturalized citizenship - foreign born individuals who naturalize as U.S. citizens. Gov. Schwarznegger is a naturalized citizen originally from Austria.

A U.S. Representative or U.S. Senator can be any of the above three and serve in public office.

Only a U.S. President must be both 1) and 2) above to serve as President.


6 posted on 05/23/2011 1:15:52 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NOT FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT)
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To: Brown Deer

OK, so that’s THREE ineligible.

Anyone running who IS qualified, not stupid, and not nuts?


7 posted on 05/23/2011 1:16:53 AM PDT by Loyal Sedition (Loyal Sedition, often described as "To the right of Attila The Hun"!)
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To: Brown Deer

If they are not Natural born, that is it.
If they are, than that it is.

We need to get each candidate to back up their credentials.

I don’t think most will have a problem with this and they shouldn’t.


8 posted on 05/23/2011 1:22:43 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: funfan

Yes.

More news at 11.


9 posted on 05/23/2011 1:49:16 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: SatinDoll
There is no constitutional requirement that one's parents be citizens in order for a person born in the US to be a natural born citizen. There has never been a court ruling on the meaning of Natural born citizen, there is nothing that requires a person to have citizen parents if that person is born in the US. There are only two types of citizens: Naturalized and Natural Born. Natural born also applies to people born in other countries who are born to US citizen parents. This is the only time that a person is required to have US citizen parents in order to be a Natural Born citizen.

If the left tries to make a big deal of this next election season then Bozo will have to resign since he would NOT be(and probably isn't anyway)a Natural Born citizen.

10 posted on 05/23/2011 2:29:27 AM PDT by calex59
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To: calex59
If the left tries to make a big deal of this next election season then Bozo will have to resign since he would NOT be(and probably isn't anyway)a Natural Born citizen.

That idea is based on the notion that the democrat party would live up to, or be held to, the same standards which are imposed on others.

Decades of drunken and philandering kennedys, senators with "wide stances" on the toilet, etc., etc., tend to prove the fallacy of that idea.

11 posted on 05/23/2011 2:39:01 AM PDT by Quiller (When you're fighting to survive, there is no "try" -- there is only do, or do not.)
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To: calex59

Then why was BO a sponsor to the resolution in the senate, that found that although mccain was born in the Panama canal zone, becaus he had two citizen parents, he was a Natural Born Citizen. Read this again: They had senate hearing on McCains qualifications to president because he was born in the Panama canal zone and the Usurper, fraud was sitting in the senate judging whether McCain was a Natural Born Citizen.


12 posted on 05/23/2011 2:39:44 AM PDT by rambo316
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To: calex59

Go to my post at #6 for the link to the United States Citizenship and Immigration Service page concerning “Citizenship”.

There you will find the three types of legal, statutory citizenship recognized by the U.S. government. Natural born citizenship is not mentioned BECAUSE it is not a type of citizenship.

Natural born citizen is ONLY an eligibility requirement to be President of the United States per the U.S. Constitution, Article II.


13 posted on 05/23/2011 2:43:01 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NOT FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT)
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To: rambo316
Because McCain was born out of the country, this requires US citizen parents in order to be a Natural born citizen and a resolution was not required to be passed. I guess you missed the sentence in my comment where I covered that part. This is why Bozo's BC was so important, he only had one Citizen parent and under the laws in effect in 1961 he would not have been a citizen of the US at all if he had been born in Kenya. As I said, there are only two classes of citizen, natural born and naturalized.

Some people desperately want it to be other wise so they can toss Bozo but sadly there is nothing in the constitution or court rulings which require two citizen parents if the person is born in the US.

Read the constitution and then FReepmail me the part that says you must have citizen parents in order to be called Natural Born citizen.

As I also said, if the left tries to raise this issue then Bozo is in deep sh**.

14 posted on 05/23/2011 2:47:18 AM PDT by calex59
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To: funfan

You are not confused.

There is no court decision or precedent specifically defining who is NBC and who is not.

My personal opinion, after reading the several Supreme Court decisions bearing on the issue, is that if the Court addresses the issue it will decide that NBC = native born. Arguably this has been the case since the Founding, and the position was enhanced by the 14th Amendment.

IOW, all those who are citizens at birth are NBC. Including, unfortunately, children born in this country to illegal aliens. Of those born on US soil, only children born to diplomats with diplomatic immunity are excluded.

Some believe otherwise, and their arguments are not trivial, but claims that NBC requires the father or both parents to be US citizens are contentions, they are not facts.

I am fully aware of all the counter-arguments, I just happen to disagree with them.


15 posted on 05/23/2011 2:51:41 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: SatinDoll
Sorry, there is nothing in the law that says a person must be born of two US citizens in order to be Natural Born. I don't care what the immigration service says, they are speaking without any legal authority to back them up.

As I told another FReeper, show me the clause in the constitution that requires this or show me the court case that defines Natural Born as having to have two citizen parents if you are born in one of the US states. In reality there would have to be an amendment to the constitution in order for this to be a requirement since the constitution specifically excludes the need of having Citizen parents if you are born in a US state. Read the constitution and understand it, it is your friend.

16 posted on 05/23/2011 2:52:03 AM PDT by calex59
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To: Brown Deer

Technically, Jindall is not natural born citizen right?


17 posted on 05/23/2011 4:13:21 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: AlexW

““Obama isn’t natural born if his dad wasn’t a citizen?””

Not correct. If a person was born within the U.S. or one of it’s territories such as Puerto Rico, Guam, Panama Canal Zone from 1903 till 1979 (John McCain)that person is a natural born citizen regardless of their parents legal status.


18 posted on 05/23/2011 4:26:23 AM PDT by snoringbear (Government is the Pimp,)
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To: Brown Deer

Romney and Obama are NOT eligible, either.

America will follow its Constitution or go the
way of Roman Empire very quickly.


19 posted on 05/23/2011 4:32:32 AM PDT by Diogenesis ( Vi veri veniversum vivus vici)
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To: calex59

Too bad you’ve read the Constitution, yet know nothing.


20 posted on 05/23/2011 4:49:48 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NOT FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT)
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To: Loyal Sedition

Anyone running who IS qualified, not stupid, and not nuts?
= = = = = = = = = = = == == == = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Hitting THAT Trifecta is definitely a ‘long shot’.

IMNSHO, one is Nuts just to seek the office.

In the eyes of the Libs, if you wear an “R” or something similar you are automatically ‘stupid’.

It is beginning to look like the quals are at the whim of a comma, and, much like the gun laws, it depends whose ox is being gored.


21 posted on 05/23/2011 4:52:04 AM PDT by xrmusn ((6/98) The more people I run into, the better I like my cat.)
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To: SatinDoll

As I said if you think the constitution states you have to have US citizen parents to be natural born please show the clause to me. In fact the constitution states that you do not have to have citizen parents because there were no US citizens when it was written therefore that requirement was left out. The only one of us who knows nothing about the constitution is you. Once again, I urge you to read it and this time try to understand what it says, maybe take a reading comprehension class or two.


22 posted on 05/23/2011 4:55:13 AM PDT by calex59
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To: Brown Deer

Did this suddenly become news because idiots who weren’t bothering to study the issue before now comprehend it?


23 posted on 05/23/2011 5:09:24 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: snoringbear

“““Obama isn’t natural born if his dad wasn’t a citizen?””

Not correct. If a person was born within the U.S. or one of it’s territories such as Puerto Rico, Guam, Panama Canal Zone from 1903 till 1979 (John McCain)that person is a natural born citizen regardless of their parents legal status.
__________________________________________________________

Well, that was not my quote, but many will disagree with you.
Yes, if born in the US, then you are a citizen, but many question if you are a “natural born” citizen, if the parents are not citizens.
It is a matter of interpretation, and only a court could settle it.
It has obviously not been tested in a court.

As for McStain, the Obots tried to argue that he was not born inside the Canal Zone, but in the city that was excluded from CZ control.
That argument, however, is now moot.


24 posted on 05/23/2011 5:12:47 AM PDT by AlexW (Proud eligibility skeptic)
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To: SatinDoll
Too bad you’ve read the Constitution, yet know nothing.

That's a nonsensical comeback if there's ever been one. Got an argument instead of an insult?

The Constitution is the law of the land. Nothing in the Constitution defines "natural-born citizen," much less defines it as requiring both parents to be citizens.

That means the term, legally, would have to be defined in federal statute and/or federal court case. The U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark SCOTUS decision defined NBC -- it said anyone born in the US of parents who were under American jurisdiction (not foreign diplomats & not foreign military at war with the US) was an NBC -- but didn't specifically address Presidential eligibility. (Wong wasn't running for anything; he just wanted to get back into the country after visiting his parents in China.)

Someone who wanted to argue that, e.g., Jindal wasn't eligible to be president would have to argue that, although he's a natural-born citizen according to Wong, he's not really a natural-born citizen in the sense intended by Article III. Have fun with that.

You can argue until the cows come up about NBC requiring thus-and-such according to de Vattel, or about what the Founders thought it meant, etc. None of that has the force of law. What matters is what the law says.

25 posted on 05/23/2011 5:18:49 AM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: calex59; SatinDoll
As I told another FReeper, show me the clause in the constitution that requires this or show me the court case that defines Natural Born as having to have two citizen parents if you are born in one of the US states.

I think after all is said and done you will find the answer to this in the 2nd Amendment.

26 posted on 05/23/2011 5:26:41 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (I retain the right to be inconsistent, contradictory and even flat-out wrong!)
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To: Campion

Massive fail on the WKA. It never ‘defined’ natural born Citizen (no hyphen and a capital C BTW).

As for codified laws look to Immigration Act of 1790 for clarification. It made it clear jus sanguinis was the dominant factor in the nbC requirement.


27 posted on 05/23/2011 5:38:00 AM PDT by bluecat6 ( "A non-denial denial. They doubt our heritage, but they don't say the story is not accurate.")
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To: Campion
Good for you Campion.

There are a lot of self-described and self-promoting "experts on Constitutional law" on these forums.

Yet they seem to be versed only in whatever Ron Paul or Jerome Corsi's latest ramblings are.

28 posted on 05/23/2011 5:43:19 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Brown Deer

Wow, Bobby Jindal is the same age as me? I feel woefully underachieved.


29 posted on 05/23/2011 5:52:07 AM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to the chariot wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: bluecat6; Campion
bluecat6, who is so precise about hyphenation and capitalization, likely means The Naturalization Act of 1790, which was entirely repealed in 1795.

I would point out that the 1790 legislation was not one that established true ius sanguinis, since under its terms a child of citizens born overseas would be a citizen - but unless that citizen eventually resided in America, his children would not be citizens.

Under true ius sanguinis, those grandchildren of citizens would still be citizens even if their citizen parents had never resided in the home country.

30 posted on 05/23/2011 5:55:35 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: bluecat6; SatinDoll; Campion; wideawake

i don’t understand, why people fight so hard, to convince others that Obama with his British citizen father, is “natural born”.
True, the constitution doesn’t define it.
WHY?
it is a short document. not a 2000 page monstrosity,
precisely because it assumes good faith understanding of BASICS, unlike you !
The founders didn’t define a LOT of basic words, because they were clearly understood. They DID read Vattel. They knew EXACTLY what “natural born” meant.
...what do the trolls think it meant?
ONLY the President is required to be natural born.
clearly, this is an stronger additional requirement.
it is ludicrous to think they were simply sloppy,
and meant native, etc.
And i firmly believe you KNOW that.
i have been reading the disinformation campaign, not just here, but in MANY other places on this issue.
this “coverup”, more than anything else, convinces me you know the truth, and that Obama IS ineligible.
His own law firm he worked at, published a paper years ago, that supports this. The paper didn’t argue it. Instead, it said the law was outdated and should be changed. (but it has been largely scrubbed also.)


31 posted on 05/23/2011 6:24:11 AM PDT by Elendur (the hope and change i need: Sarah / Colonel West in 2012)
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To: Elendur
(1) Vattel is one of many authorities cited by legal theorists on these questions, not the sole authority in the universe.

(2) Vattel wrote from the perspective of code law and not common law.

(3) Vattel's works were still being revised and updated from his posthumous notes and addenda years after the Constitution was ratified.

(4) The laws of various European states at the time of ratification and the final English edition of Vattel (1797) regarding ius sanguinis and ius soli were, to put it mildly, a patchwork.

32 posted on 05/23/2011 6:39:51 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: funfan

Okay I am confused wouldn’t this mean Obama isn’t natural born if his dad wasn’t a citizen? Or am I confused which could very well be.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/55105383/Executive-Summary-Re-NBC-Defined-in-Constitution-Plus-4-SCOTUS-Cases


33 posted on 05/23/2011 7:01:53 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: Brown Deer

I guarantee you; if either of these guys runs for president, they *will* be considered natural born. No court, no Congress will hold otherwise. And of course, that goes for Romney as well.


34 posted on 05/23/2011 7:05:10 AM PDT by sand lake bar (Adventure Time with Finn and Jake!)
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To: calex59
There are only two types of citizens: Naturalized and Natural Born. Natural born also applies to people born in other countries who are born to US citizen parents.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well?...The left would argue that a Vietnamese child who was fathered by an American soldier in the late 1960s and raised his entire life in Vietnam, could ( after living here for a mere 14 years,) go on to be president.

Somehow, I don't think this is what the Founding Fathers had in mind for the nation.

35 posted on 05/23/2011 7:11:47 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: Elendur

These people are evil. It really is that simple.


36 posted on 05/23/2011 7:14:17 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: calex59

Step daughter born on US Navy base in Japan, held dual BC’s, 1 from Japan and 1 from the US Consulate had a US passport at age 6 weeks. Both parents are American citizens from birth. Father was in the Navy, doing a Japan tour when she was born.


37 posted on 05/23/2011 7:53:28 AM PDT by GailA (2012 rally cry DEMOCRATS and RINOS are BAD for the USA!)
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To: wintertime
Here's my question: if having a non-citizen father violates the definition of "natural born" citizenship, and since Obama readily admits that his father was a non-citizen, why all the concern over his birth certificate?

If the definition of "natural born" were as cut-and-dried as many here claim, the documentation originally offered by his campaign would have been enough to disqualify him.

38 posted on 05/23/2011 7:53:49 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Brown Deer

Nope, sorry, none of them are NBC. Run for Senate or Governor or dog catcher, but the POTUS is off limits. If the founding fathers ever needed an example of what they were guarding against, we have the current usurper terrorist. Yes, these two might be “good guys” but it a major safety net that is in place for a reason.


39 posted on 05/23/2011 7:57:46 AM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: wideawake
If the definition of "natural born" were as cut-and-dried as many here claim, the documentation originally offered by his campaign would have been enough to disqualify him.

The proposed definition of "natural born" is nothing more than a matter of conveniently crafted wording in the service of wishful thinking.

The entire birther thing is little more than desperate but lazy people, looking for a magic solution to a problem that really just requires hard work, patience, and a rational and focused political organization.

40 posted on 05/23/2011 7:58:55 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Loyal Sedition
Anyone running who IS qualified, not stupid, and not nuts?

Cain is the only one I can think of.

41 posted on 05/23/2011 7:59:26 AM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: AlexW
“If Obozo can get away with being called a NBC, ANYONE can.”

Anyone OTHER THAN a non-citizen of the USA or a naturalized citizen.

According to the current reading of the law - only non-citizens or naturalized citizens are excluded.

U.S. citizens are either born citizens and thus are “natural born” or they are “naturalized” to confer that status that would have been theirs by nature.

42 posted on 05/23/2011 8:03:41 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: rambo316

Notice how someone didn’t answer your question and turned it around. The full discussion of SR511 included the TWO US CITIZEN PARENTS which the Ineligible Won signed his name to. Hillary also acknowledge that definition with her signature. There is no wiggle room out of it especially since he still claims papa was a Kenyan. He’s a lying usurper, plain and simple.


43 posted on 05/23/2011 8:04:40 AM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: calex59

Not only has no court ever ruled that two citizen parents are required, but now no court ever will. Not when we’ve gone 3 years with a sitting President who openly admitted and even boasted during the campaign that his father was from Kenya.


44 posted on 05/23/2011 8:05:11 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: calex59

Hogwash and you know it.


45 posted on 05/23/2011 8:05:36 AM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: Campion; rxsid

Funny, I don’t recall you or a couple other posters who have suddenly shown up to deny source after scourc for TWO US CITIZEN PARTENTS in the countless other threads on NBC. Wonder why that is? But since you haven’t been in on these discussions for the past three years, here’s just one thread you might consider reading. No, you probably won’t read it but will just post some lame denial again.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2512143/posts


46 posted on 05/23/2011 8:16:13 AM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: wideawake
If the definition of "natural born" were as cut-and-dried as many here claim, the documentation originally offered by his campaign would have been enough to disqualify him.

Amazing ain't it?!

Some peoples need for a conspiracy overwhelms the obviousness of that simple truth. Obama, his lawyers and a collection of Hawaiian government officials are all on record admitting Obama's father was Kenyan. And rather than move on to the next phase, the birth certificate conspiracy is like a perpetual motion machine that can't stop.

We can't talk about "natural born citizen" until we get to the bottom of the smiley face.

47 posted on 05/23/2011 8:19:36 AM PDT by Tex-Con-Man
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To: r9etb
The proposed definition of "natural born" is nothing more than a matter of conveniently crafted wording in the service of wishful thinking.

Correct.

And the appeal to Vattel, as I've pointed out, is problematic as well.

Vattel's system is markedly different from ours: the children of non-citizen permanent residents are not citizens under Vattel, but are clearly US citizens under US law.

He himself points out that there are significant real-life exceptions to his ideal definitions of terms.

48 posted on 05/23/2011 8:27:12 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
the documentation originally offered by his campaign would have been enough to disqualify him.

Documentation? Really? What documentation did he present? Do you know something no one else knows? As far as anyone knows, he never presented anything. Have you not read about all the problems with Pelosi and her DNC forms? Hawaii refused to certify the joker because they knew the truth so Pelosi had to re-word it for them. Can you say big flashing red light.

49 posted on 05/23/2011 8:28:45 AM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: bgill

If you didn’t want anyone besides those who already have a track record of obsession with this issue to post to this thread, it should have been made a caucus thread.


50 posted on 05/23/2011 8:30:29 AM PDT by wideawake
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