Posted on 05/14/2011 7:04:25 AM PDT by petitfour
I don't think there is any protection in the average house that will stop the kinds of rounds these guys were shooting.
IMO, *if* they thought he was a threat to them, the presence of the woman and child should have made them back out and reevaluate the situation. Not turn the man into hamburger and the house into kindling.
This has the smell of Central American paramilitary police opps.
It is very interesting to note that the police admit there is a serious problem in the city with home invasions. Which would suggest that one should expect a lot of armed homeowners.
Is he an exception or the rule?
My experience has been that most police are professional and honest and decent, despite having encountered a few yahoos.
That said, I am very concerned when I see them using things like paramilitary squads called “swat”, and things like armored cars and even tanks.
I'm also concerned when it is evident that there are too many false prosecutions based on faulty or corrupt investigations, or ambitious police or prosecutors.
T.V. and the movies have for at least since the late 40’s pushed the idea that the “authorities” are the only ones who should “deal with things”, and that the ordinary citizen is almost incompetent (or worse - sometimes filled with evil intentions ) to deal with things.
“It's a job for the law”, “don't take the law into your own hands”, etc - that's the propaganda line from T.V. and movies.
And what do we have today? A dumbed down and impotent citizenry. And an increasingly militarized and powerful multi-layered police linked nationaly through the state level down to the local. And things are becomming more and more authoritarian, aka police state like. - By accident?
“They got to put on the cool outfits that morning, kick in a door, and fire off their automatics. They felt macho, had fun, and that’s all that really matters.”
It’s a mental thing. The security guards where I work were black BDU pants and combat boots. Go figure.
Every time I go through the TSA (and I must for my job) they are more disrespectful, more attitudinous, more smart-assed, more calloused, more groping, more surly.
Of course they are Feds and this is a local cop issue but the point is, as you said, they, regardless of what level of 'gubmint' have infinite money, infinite protection from the courts, and a fundamental dislike of the citizenry.
History tells us that the more power they get, the more tyrannical they become. It's just plain old human nature. It's why America was founded.
We gotta get ALL these dogs back under the porch.
My mother lives in an area where MS13 gangs are. Serious increase in crime in the past decade. The whole area changed so fast. I went back home in 2003 and it was changing, now it’s unrecognizable.
I’m must admit I’m of the belief that we have for too many police and that I’m now more concerned about my safety from them then from criminals. At least I can shoot a criminal in self defense.
Dispatchers should have been able to pull any info they needed up right away. And to let the guy bleed to death, well I’m thinking the lady and her kids are gonna be very well off soon.
This stinks and smells like an execution. I hope the bad guys go to jail and the wife takes them and the city for millions of dollars.
If the SWAT team and police are not revealing any details they know they screwed up and are in COVER YOUR ASS mode.
The big difference is this:
Things will change if the cops ever no knock the son of a prominent politician or functionaries house and kill him. Until that happens nobody really gives a shiite about Joe bag O donuts working at the mine.
No Knock warrants have to end. But somebody “important” will have to killed to change the practice.
Been around. (leave that as it is) Bunch of has beens or wanna be s**t heads are all that you have on a SWAT team. Then politics enter into the picture. Intead of standing up and saying that this was a mistake and we will do our best to never do this again... and to releive the family of stress they duck and hide and come up with a new cover.
Pima County Sheriff Dupnik had no problem in leaving Gerald Loughner alone long enough to shoot Gabrielle Giffords. Wonder what he considered important enough to go in with SWAT here?
Other than the fact it *IS* the PCSO so they probably had the wrong address!!!!
Isn’t 930am a bit late for SWAT raids?
They MUST have gotten the wrong house. The cartels are now on our side of the border. I assme the police? were pumped to deal with a mean drug raid and possible shoot out with cartel couriers, users and Mexican muscle? They MUST have gotten the wrong house, and then saw the boy’s AK and hell broke loose. Heartbreak. Sickening.
I’m assuming the 9:30am time was to avoid the school aged children. Buses pick up children in that neighborhood from about 5:40am until 8:50ish. Then there would be parents who drive their children to school.
This is the South side of town. Loughner was from the white side of town. Not to be racist or anything, but there are attitudes about people based solely on what side of town they’re from.
You Wrote: “Intead of standing up and saying that this was a mistake and we will do our best to never do this again... and to releive the family of stress they duck and hide and come up with a new cover.”
Really? Just saying they will do “our” best to never do it again? That’s it?
How about throwing the judge that issued the “no knock” warrant in jail. Throwing the Judges weeping wife and kids out of his/her nice house, selling everything they own at auction. Same goes for the Sheriff. After all, it’s the Sheriffs shop that did the raid.
Same goes for the grunts on the raid. The shooters get charged with murder one. Then the cops family can go on public assistance and get moved into one of these shiite neighborhoods, so they can in turn be gunned down by the Sheriffs department. That’s sound about right.
Then gets 70 shots from a swat team poured into his house! My God.
____________________________________________________________
All the while his wife and toddler son were in that home.
This just makes me want to vomit. That poor poor baby boy. I cannot imagine the horrific scene that *may* be etched in his head for the rest of his life.
F’ing criminals. All should be prosceuted for MURDER~
As long as the SWAT teams only murder average citizens those really in control could care less.
I have NEVER approved of SWAT,just as I have NEVER approved of the 1973 Abortion ruling and its aftermath of death.
The courts may try to tell us it is legal but it is still wrong. The Nazis murdered millions and claimed only to be following lawful orders.
Too bad this vet didn't take out some of the thugs invading his home.You know the law enforcement community will never admit the whole thing was their fault.
I am disturbed and upset about a young hero Marine possibly killed by friendly fire under questionable circumstances by Pima County SWAT.
A 26 year-old former Marine Jose Guerena is dead, was it righteous or criminal? Lets check the current info available from Pima County Sheriff’s spokesman, and media quotes:
Jose Guerena arrives home from working 12 hour shift at mining job, showers and goes to sleep.
Man has no criminal record other than a couple of traffic tickets.
Two hours later Pima SWAT arrives with sirens and lights on all vehicles at Guerena home to serve warrant. (Wife and locals say no lights or sirens observed) Lights and sirens on? Has any seen that tactic employed on any type of warrant service?
Wife & son see unidentified man pointing gun in window, runs toward bedroom to wake Jose fearing home invasion.
Jose wakes, instructs wife to hide with son in closet, with AR-15 moves toward front door.
Guerena home door breeched. SWAT claims after knocking for 15 seconds and announcing. Wife and locals say no knock, no ID announced. Try knocking for 15 sec and yelling “POLICE”, long time . no one heard or noticed?
SWAT claims fired upon by Guerena upon entry and returned fire, 71 rounds. SWAT recants initial statements. Jose’s weapon was found on safe with round in chamber. First man in stack has accidential discharge (AD) that hits door frame, and he falls back, whole stack opens fire on Guerena. You can clearly see from the videos of the house that most of the 71 shots appear not to hit Guerena, poor marksmanship or fire discipline. The walls and doorframe are riddled with bullets. Would you want to be the pointman in the door, if you’ve got 4 or 5 quick triggers behind you that’ll spray and pray at the first noise or oddity? SWAT made entry into two other homes to check for possible injuries and damage from rounds that penetrated after exiting the Guerena home.
Wife talks with 911 operator for more than five minutes pleading for help while husband bleeds out and SWAT hangs around outside trying to figure out what happened and what to do next.
SWAT pull wife off phone and out door. Wife claims Jose was still alive. SWAT said he was dead hitting floor. 1 hour and 15 minutes to “clear” house before SWAT allows an ambulance crew in?
Wife not served with warrant, warrant and files sealed after the fact. When did sealing the warrant after attempted service become procedure?
Post entry/shooting investigation being conducted Pima County Sheriff’s Office. Why not let AZ State Police investigate with all conflicting statements.
This needs to stay at top of stack. Righteous or wrong all the facts need to be out on the table .
ping
And they can do anything they want.
Nothing will happen to any of these worms, other than promotions and raises.
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