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Seattle couple murdered by pirates; Would guns on board be smart?
Seattle Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 22 February, 2011 | Dave Workman

Posted on 02/23/2011 8:10:07 PM PST by marktwain

Four Americans, including a Seattle couple, aboard a private yacht hijacked by Somali pirates are dead this morning, and readers reacting to the CBS story on-line are wondering why any of the pirates were taken alive. Likewise, after the Seattle Times caught up with the story at about 7:25 a.m., it didn’t take long for readers to suggest that the pirates be taught a lesson.

The incident is hardly a first in that part of the world. Somali pirates have been emboldened by the willingness of some victims to pay outrageous ransoms. Reports indicate that negotiations were underway between the pirates and a U.S. warship nearby.

Today’s dead are identified as Seattleites Bob Riggle and Phyllis Macay, along with Californians Scott and Jean Adam, who owned the Quest, whose home port may be Marina del Rey, where the Adams lived.

Then we should bring the Navy in and blast those Somalian (sic) MF's back into the stone age (or farther back into it). If a Somolian (sic) ship is at sea and is not fishing, blow them up and ask questions later.—Seattle Times reader

Early in the Obama administration, Navy SEAL marksmen took out some pirates holding a merchant captain hostage, but one can now conclude that message was insufficient to convince pirates that attacking boats or ships on the high seas, sailing under the American flag, is a bad idea. It will be up to the administration to take appropriate action. Examiner readers are encouraged to comment below, explaining what you think would be appropriate.

Meanwhile, what can private vessels do to discourage pirates or defend against them?

This column checked on line and it appears that it is legal – with some red tape, naturally – to carry arms aboard.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; gun; maritime; pirates; scottadam; selfdefense; somali; somalipirates
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The United States Government should work hard to insure that its citizens can exercise their right to arms in American flagged vessels all around the world.
1 posted on 02/23/2011 8:10:13 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

If you’re carrying Bibles into the the Islimed portion of the world, guns might be a good idea.


2 posted on 02/23/2011 8:12:11 PM PST by Ingtar (Together we go broke (from a Pookie18 post))
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To: marktwain

I wouldn’t ASK for permission....sheesh....of course, at different ports of call having a “gun” is probably a crime....so, I would not go THERE! (Or I’d have the piece hidden on my body)


3 posted on 02/23/2011 8:12:51 PM PST by goodnesswins (I'm not a great man....I just believe in great ideas! Ronald Reagan)
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To: marktwain

Until recently, yachties have been convoying up to run the Red Sea, with the US and other navies monitoring their progress.

I read that this yacht was told no such convoy or protection would be afforded, they were on their own.

I wonder if that was an Obama move?


4 posted on 02/23/2011 8:13:43 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: marktwain
Would guns on board be smart? They couldn't have hurt could they.
5 posted on 02/23/2011 8:13:54 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Ingtar

I have a niece whose husband is in India on a christian mission. I told my sister I didn’t think that was a good idea since he is married and has two children. She just shook her head. Did I mention my sister is a liberal?


6 posted on 02/23/2011 8:14:14 PM PST by 23 Everest (A gun in hand is better than a cop on the phone.)
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To: marktwain

I get Google alerts for all of Dave Workman’s articles.
Well founded, informative, and always well written.


7 posted on 02/23/2011 8:15:21 PM PST by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: marktwain
The United States Government should work hard to insure that its citizens can exercise their right to arms in American flagged vessels all around the world.

I think that the legal problems arise only when folks sail into territories or waters subject to the laws of other sovereign nations. There probably aren't any legal problems in international waters.

8 posted on 02/23/2011 8:15:39 PM PST by Walts Ice Pick
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To: Travis McGee
870 Stainless, don't leave home without it.


9 posted on 02/23/2011 8:17:24 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: marktwain

How naive of them to sail into pirate infested waters without a boatload of firearms. What did these people think, that Jesus would save them? Unbelievable!


10 posted on 02/23/2011 8:17:53 PM PST by Bridge_toofar (Islam grows silently like cancer and when large enough it kills the host)
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To: marktwain
Would guns on board be smart?

No, defenseless is the way to go.

11 posted on 02/23/2011 8:18:27 PM PST by NonValueAdded (Palin 2012: don't retreat, just restock [chg'd to comply w/ The Civility in Discourse Act of 2011])
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To: ColdOne; Fred; Chattering Class of 58; SeattleBruce; tarator; 21twelve; Feasor13; matt1234; ...
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket Say WA? Evergreen State ping

Quick link: WA State Board

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this ping list.
Ping sionnsar if you see a Washington state related thread.

12 posted on 02/23/2011 8:19:04 PM PST by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|http://pure-gas.org|Must be a day for changing taglines)
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To: marktwain

Meanwhile, what can private vessels do to discourage pirates or defend against them?

Maybe pass out bibles in a different part of the world.

That way taxpayers don’t have to pay for warships to rescue you and most importantly you won’t die.


13 posted on 02/23/2011 8:20:03 PM PST by tennmountainman
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To: 23 Everest

India does not tolerate pirates. There is 1/10th violent crime in India per capita compared to United States. So he is actually safer there than in Chicago, LA or NY or Miami, by far.


14 posted on 02/23/2011 8:21:00 PM PST by Bridge_toofar (Islam grows silently like cancer and when large enough it kills the host)
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To: marktwain
There is no law against having firearms at sea, they claim that the insurance companies will not let the commercial tankers have them. If you could make enforceable laws against firearms you could outlaw gambling. Not going to happen, 3 mile limit.
15 posted on 02/23/2011 8:22:07 PM PST by org.whodat
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To: tet68

Something with a bit more reach might be helpful to keep the pirates at a safe distance and off the boat to begin with.


16 posted on 02/23/2011 8:22:15 PM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: NFHale; samtheman; hiredhand; Gilbo_3; ExSoldier; bvw; Qbert; justice14; Squantos; DoughtyOne; ...

We went over this in detail Monday, ahead of the curve.


17 posted on 02/23/2011 8:22:36 PM PST by sickoflibs ("It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: Bridge_toofar

Jesus has saved me.


18 posted on 02/23/2011 8:22:59 PM PST by Richard Kimball
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To: marktwain
In most situations I would say yes, Always have a firearm. However, those four morons don't strike me as the type who would know one end of a gun from another. They were doomed the moment they bought the boat.
19 posted on 02/23/2011 8:23:14 PM PST by BigCinBigD (Northern flags in South winds flutter...)
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To: tet68
That ain't gonna cut it on the high seas.

We are protecting against Pirates after all. Also carrying a cutlass in ones belt wouldn't hurt either.

20 posted on 02/23/2011 8:23:17 PM PST by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: marktwain
"Would guns on board be smart?"

No guns on board is stupid. Suicidal, even.

21 posted on 02/23/2011 8:23:19 PM PST by onemiddleamerican (FUBO and all your terrorist buddies)
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To: tet68
This baby shooting STEEL slugs would be fearsome, Buck, or Buck n Ball for close range.

Hexolit 32


22 posted on 02/23/2011 8:23:34 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: marktwain

Why, didn’t our military control the situation? On the other hand, some people think the world is a kumbaya song by Joan Baez.


23 posted on 02/23/2011 8:23:49 PM PST by Bronzy (We Remembered In November.)
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To: marktwain

I’ve always sailed with firearms, usually my Colt .45 and a 12 gauge.

If Obama had any balls at all he should get a group of Navy Seals to board a 50 foot sailing yacht with a couple of decoys on the upper deck and sail through troubled waters. When the pirates attack, it’s shoot to kill, period. NO prisoners, and blow their boat completely out of the water. It would only take two times and I would bet good money the piracy would drop by 80%.


24 posted on 02/23/2011 8:24:30 PM PST by GOP_Muzik (If all the world's a stage then I want different lighting)
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To: marktwain

they don’t even have the right to carry right here in the States in places that would be far more dangerous to 4 upperclass white people than the Somalis.


25 posted on 02/23/2011 8:24:43 PM PST by digger48
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To: Bridge_toofar

The pirates are now using captured clandestine mother ships to roam over 1,500 miles from Somalia. The sailboat was taken over 1,000 miles away. It’s the Red Sea or the Cape of Good Hope, so it’s a big risk either way if you plan to go around.


26 posted on 02/23/2011 8:27:04 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Bronzy

Of course guns on board is a bad idea. Why they may have injured one of the pirates. sar/


27 posted on 02/23/2011 8:28:12 PM PST by TsonicTsunami08
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To: tet68

That looks wicked! What do a box go fer?


28 posted on 02/23/2011 8:28:25 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Ingtar

Yeah. What you said.

What would be smart would be not going on a luxury cruise into Pirate-land to pass out Bibles.

That would be smart.


29 posted on 02/23/2011 8:28:33 PM PST by flowerplough (Thomas Sowell: Those who look only at Obama's deeds tend to become Obama's critics.)
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To: marktwain

The old adage still stands and makes sense:....”Better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and NOT have it.”

Why are yachtsmen and women going into dangerous, out of control places in the first place? Don’ they have a lick of sense or information? Do only naive and stupid Kumbaya “liberals” do this? It’s one thing if you want to go by yourself into hostile territory, but to take a family member or women into Islamofascist territory,.....? Excuse me, but WTF are they thinking? Or are they?

I’d have a waterproof containter welded to the bottom of my boat where the guns would go before entering port in hostile lands (except for concealed carry guns.)

Shoot first and head for the open seas.


30 posted on 02/23/2011 8:29:01 PM PST by garyhope (It's World War IV, right here, right now, courtesy of "liberals, Islam and illegal immigration.)
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To: Travis McGee

Kinda pricey.
Looks like $18 for a box of six.


31 posted on 02/23/2011 8:32:18 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: marktwain
No, firearms aboard would not help, not by themselves. Firearms aboard coupled with the determination to use them in self defense and the necessary minimal training to do so would help. Being angry enough at evil to oppose it would help, even if it's only the gesture of taking one or two of the bastards with you. Firearms are only a means to that end, useless in the absence of human determination.

They can be inconvenient to carry, to be sure - many ports prohibit a landing with them onboard. These are laws an intelligent person must consider worthy of disobedience if that individual is willing to accept the consequences. The consequences of not having them, though - those involve dying helplessly at the hands of those who do. Your choice.

32 posted on 02/23/2011 8:36:00 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Travis McGee
The pirates are now using captured clandestine mother ships to roam over 1,500 miles from Somalia. The sailboat was taken over 1,000 miles away.

Thank you for reiterating that factoid. I was thinking that if the pirates were in MN, and I was in Texas, I'd think that was far enough away, but these days, it's not.

Looking forward to Castego Cay. Hope it's soon.

33 posted on 02/23/2011 8:36:18 PM PST by sockmonkey
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To: TsonicTsunami08

I read that US naval forces were trailing the Americans.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=209419


34 posted on 02/23/2011 8:37:18 PM PST by Bronzy (We Remembered In November.)
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To: tet68
Says it makes a two and a half inch ENTRY wound.


35 posted on 02/23/2011 8:38:34 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: marktwain

It’s an incredibly stupid idea.

Every time I’ve sailed into a foreign port, I get a visit by customs or the police.

This is even true in yacht destinations like Antigua or Sardinia.

Most countries have very strict gun control laws.

They find a firearm on your boat and you’re going to experience “Midnight Express” first hand.

If you need protection use a flare gun or a rocket flare.

We’re talking range of up to several thousands of feet and burn temperatures of thousands of degrees.

Fire one into a beat up pirate launch and it’s going to burn.

Hit a pirate and he’s going to catch on fire.

Most importantly, it’s not only legal but require to be on board.

But the best solution is don’t sail in pirate waters!


36 posted on 02/23/2011 8:40:28 PM PST by PanzerKardinal (Some things are so idiotic only an intellectual would believe it.)
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To: marktwain

Many places where you would sail into will not allow firearms. It is a complicated situation. In some ports, you need to declare any weapons onboard and let them hang onto them while you are in their country. You can get them back on the way out. If you try to hide them, they will find them. Customs agents are accustomed to searching for drugs on board. They will seize your boat and put you in jail if they find undeclared firearms.

Other places will seize them and keep them no matter what.

You need a long range firearm. Shotgun is only good when they’re trying to board or after have gotten on board. Go for a large capacity auto-loader with high powered round. Think AR-10 chambered in .308, or similar.

You need to be able to damage a vessel from a ways off. Of course these guys are willing to fire RPG’s at naval ships, so you might be better off steering well clear of dangerous areas.


37 posted on 02/23/2011 8:40:32 PM PST by tpmintx (Liberalism=Envy + Governmental authority. [I'm green; are you?])
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To: Travis McGee

Would any number of weapons really help four people with limited or no combat experience on a smaller boat? If they are facing a relatively large number of pirates, it would seem like the best they could do is take out a couple pirates before they were killed.


38 posted on 02/23/2011 8:46:06 PM PST by MediaMole
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To: Bridge_toofar

I hope you’re right.


39 posted on 02/23/2011 8:46:12 PM PST by 23 Everest (A gun in hand is better than a cop on the phone.)
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To: marktwain

Problems arise when you enter the sovereign waters of another country. Once you do that, you are subject to their laws and if you are going boating, going out to sea and never hitting port sucks. Take this from a former US Navy sailor.


40 posted on 02/23/2011 8:46:46 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: marktwain

Q ships!


41 posted on 02/23/2011 8:49:30 PM PST by Bringbackthedraft (I see a dark cloud coming over the horizon, and its reminiscent of 1939.)
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To: marktwain

The best solution I can think of is for Obama to grow a pair, and then armor up a normal looking boat and put some marines on board with big arse guns. Surprise blow up about 4 ships out of the water and the rest of the scum pirates will think twice about their godless profession.


42 posted on 02/23/2011 8:53:59 PM PST by LowOiL ("Abomination" sure sounds like "ObamaNation" to me.)
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To: Bridge_toofar

“How naive of them to sail into pirate infested waters without a boatload of firearms. What did these people think, that Jesus would save them? Unbelievable!”

I know you will probably not understand this but, Jesus did save them. Our lives are (relatively speaking) not of great value, it is our souls that truly matter. These good Christian’s souls are with our Lord Jesus Christ tonight. Indeed, they are the lucky ones...


43 posted on 02/23/2011 8:54:11 PM PST by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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To: Wpin

Amen


44 posted on 02/23/2011 8:58:38 PM PST by LowOiL ("Abomination" sure sounds like "ObamaNation" to me.)
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To: marktwain
The Ultimate Adventure Cruise

One week cruise, offered by Russian company, from Djibouti to Mombasa. Boat is well-equipped.

We guarantee that you will experience at least two hijacking attempts by pirates or you'll receive an instant $1,000 refund upon arrival in Mombassa.

45 posted on 02/23/2011 9:02:44 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: cynwoody

Man them Russians know how to party. Did you see the vid of them taking out the pirate scum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIVz4tZRbRE


46 posted on 02/23/2011 9:13:39 PM PST by TsonicTsunami08
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To: Bringbackthedraft
Q ships!

Exactly! And long overdue!

47 posted on 02/23/2011 9:15:03 PM PST by sjmjax (Politicans are like bananas - they start out green, turn yellow, then rot.)
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To: GOP_Muzik
... I would bet good money ...

In todays situation where will you get it? I am not talking about money, I am talking about GOOD money.

48 posted on 02/23/2011 9:20:20 PM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government!)
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To: cynwoody

Is that for real?


49 posted on 02/23/2011 9:24:45 PM PST by MrInvisible
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To: Wpin

I rather be alive to marvel & experience at the wondrous world around me. No thanks, I do not wish to die before nature has designed my body to survive and experience the love and affection of people around me. I value life very much. If you want to die before your time and meet Jesus, be my guest.


50 posted on 02/23/2011 9:27:49 PM PST by Bridge_toofar (Islam grows silently like cancer and when large enough it kills the host)
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