Posted on 01/10/2011 10:38:50 AM PST by Qwackertoo
In light of the incident in FL, woman whacked shooter with her purse, and now in AZ and the woman grabbed the second clip before he could re-load . . . I'm a lady and carry a .380 Ruger LCP. I'm thinking it wouldn't do much good in these situations AND I'm thinking I could easily get myself shot IF the police or others thought I was the SHOOTER and not someone trying to help.
Scary days we live in. Play dead OR try to take the shooter out? Get a bigger gun? I also own a Colt .357 but too big to carry much less conceal.
I think both of those two older ladies were quite brave in the face of grave danger in both of these shootings.
I had heard one of the guys who held him down had done exactly that, play dead. So I’m just asking, I KNOW I could shoot another person and kill them IF it came to me or them . . . or my kids. This situation and the FL situation is helping me think through what I would do and how I could react and be more successful and fighting back and defending myself and perhaps others.
ONE minor bullet wound in the arm or leg will do little to deter the bad guy,but SIX or SEVEN .380s in the chest should do it unless he's wearing a good vest.And I say don't be reluctant to shoot the bad guy shooter in the back if he has shot another person.Just take him down!
Some people do not like .380 pistols because they are smaller framed and in my experience anyway, have more "felt" recoil than, say, short-barreled 9mm pistols. Their primary advantage is concealability, which is not a small matter.
It was only a one on one situation....
You were only planning on taking out the shooter? Right??
The prompt, decisive and effective action of the Tuscon woman in depriving the shooter of his loaded ammo clip is most commendable. However, according to reports I’ve heard the shooter was at that time being held down and restrained by two other erstwhile bystanders, and therefore not very effectively capable of physically opposing her grab for the clip.
Precisely. I carried a .22 semi-auto for years. Practiced making ‘paper plate’ grouped shots under varying motions and speeds. Two locations on the human body using a .22 will drop someone: head shot, or well placed shot(s) to the bladder region where lots of nerves and major blood vessels run. The bladder shot is a very painful injury, while the head shot will likely disconnect brain from body muscles. I only changed calibers because I purchased a nice CZ82 in 9x18.
BANG BUMP!
'Nother bump. Anyone who would entertain such a notion has no business with a weapon, period.
Little Ray, thank you for bringing a dose of reality to this thread. As you wrote,”pistols are all about placement, placement, placement.” That is why the clear shot is so important.
Qwackertoo, I carry a .380 LCP like you, because of difficulty concealing a larger firearm when I take my jacket off. So, I carry it in my front pant pocket with an extra magazine. My dad, and younger brother have patted me down to see if I was carrying a couple of times, and they have never found it. With the extra magazine I have 12+1 shots at bad guys. I also put on laser grips. The red dot assists in placement, and brings fear to the bad guy. With a small gun, any small rapid movement will alter the target acquisition. The red dot makes it unfair for the bad guys.
Also, my training is that the chest is not the best target area. Two to the soft abdomen (about the size of a hand) where the vital organs are covered.
Studies indicate that even law enforcement (who spend much more time at the range) lose about 50% of their effectiveness when adrenalin kicks in. That is why we must all be prepared, and trained, and proficient.
It is interesting to me that in Arizona, a concealed carry state, there was not one person that intervened before at least 19 shots could be fired by the wacko. One reason why I do not leave home without it/them anymore.
Gwjack
a .380 in hand that you are comfortable shooting when the SHTF is better than an ak-47 at home in the closet. Practice and situational awareness is the key to surviving.
A .380...with quality ammo and a good amount of practice to make your shots count...is a fine firearm for concealed carry.
Yet, one of the men (plus the lady that grabbed the mag) that held down & stopped the shooter was a Sheepdog.
He had come out Walgreens and ran to the sound of the gunshots. He was a CCL.
Good thing - in most shooting situations, I doubt anyone is going to shoot more than a couple of attackers before they either break off or shoot you.
I now carry a S&W Model 60 LS in my pocket. Only 5 shots & a 2" barrel, so I'm not likely to take on someone 100 feet away - but with practice, I think it would do the job at reasonable ranges. It would have sufficed in a Safeway, I think...
By troopervail at 2010-08-09
I would remind everyone that a .22 that hits the target is far more effective than a .45 that misses. Even a .380 can be incapacitate someone with the right shot group.
I highly recommend the following banner for CCW holders. http://www.dsmsafety.com/home.html
Yes, it is not “manly” and yes it makes you look like a dork. But it could very well keep you from getting shot either by a cop of another CCW holder. After all, no one goes around wearing these things and it does make a person stop and think twice.
Normally stored in a pouch on the belt, it only comes out after the threat has been neutralized. It is designed to provide post incident identification and recognition. However, given the incident as described, I’m not sure it would save you from the purse.
The adrenaline is pumping hard. People are panicking and running everywhere. The gunman is standing in an area surrounded by innocent people. If you take a shot you run the very great risk of hitting an innocent person.
There are no general answers beyond trying to mentally rehearse a potential bad situation and be comfortable with the weapon you do have.
All else is conjecture or bravado — or both.
You are very right. But I did say "if I had a shot"
A person with a concealed carry permit has no duty to act on behalf of others as far as I know. I think it is up to the person to decide what to do in any given situation. I can personally think of many situations where I would be more worried about making sure my family and I were safe than I would be about helping people I do not know.
Glad to hear you are so confident in exactly what you would do. Hopefully you’ll never have to make a quick decision on if you might hit an innocent bystander or if the gunman grabs someone to use as shield. It must be nice to be so perfect.
Thank you for your reply. That is exactly what I was trying to do, mentally rehearse many scenarios of what and when to do something. The “pat” answers by macho would be heroes in their minds, are annoying.
I’m not a gun expert, nor have I played on TV. However, my concealed weapon is a S&W .380 Bodyguard. Without looking them up again, here are the numbers off the top of my head. A .380 round travels at 1200 feet per second. That is VERY fast for a revolver round. A metal jacketed round will ricochet like crazy. Also, the 3.5 inch barrel means you will have a very hard time hitting a target at more than 10 feet. The kill number on the metal-jacketed .380 round is around 12, which is low. A .45 caliber, which travels at 850 fps has a number around 50.
I carry Glaser Safety Slugs, these are $2 each. They are a plastic bullet filled with tiny pellets with a thin metal shell to hold them together in flight. This design imparts all of the bullet’s force by completely deforming against the target. The “safety” part of the name comes from their lack of ricocheting. Their kill number is about 45, or really close to the .45APC round.
Here are my recommendations.
1. Carry the gun where you can easily pull it. A variety of hidden holsters are available and women have a plethora of choices on how to carry it.
2. Practice, practice, practice. Put 50 rounds a week through it until you can reliably hit a man-sized silhouette at progressively longer distances. A Glaser hit will put a huge man down regardless of where it hits him; guaranteed. (I’ve fired 1000 rounds through any gun I expect to carry.)
3. Learn when to pull it and NEVER pull it unless you are in fear for you life. Otherwise, somebody will take it away from you.
4. When in doubt, run the other way.
5. Do not fire at more than 10 feet unless it is your only option.
No doubt there were brave souls on hand that day.
Some naturally tend to run towards the smoke while others run away and there is nothing inherently wrong with either action in the general sense.
The poster brings up some good and valid points regading the risk one faces getting involved in something like this where the bad guys may not be well identified and a good guy can be taken down or out by another good guy or by a cop.
I once had a forum discusson with a freeper who claimed that he never left the house with less than 4 hi cap mags of .45 and his pistol. He wanted to be prepared to engage shooters in public places such as malls, etc. IMO, that isn’t enough if one really expects trouble but too much for mere self defense. If one really feels the need to prepare for four reloads, maybe one should think more carefully about where one travels and try more to avoid dangerous sitations?
I think poster’s question is a very intelligent question for any person, especially those without police or military training to consider: At what point should one consider NOT inserting themselves into a gunfight?
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