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Does God Use Atheists To Fulfill His Will?
Pinochet

Posted on 12/09/2010 7:30:00 AM PST by pinochet

Europe is the continent that created the Christian civilization of the West, that is now in danger of being destroyed by radical Muslims. The only person in Europe who stands up in passionate defence of Europe's Judeo-Christian civilizational values is Geert Wilders of Holland, who is an atheist.

Wilders is a former Catholic who lost his faith and became an atheist. But he has spoken out in defence of the historical role that Christianity and Judaism have played, in creating Europe's prosperity and freedom. He is also Europe's most passionate defender of Israel, and he defends Israel with a zeal that exceeds that of America's evangelical Christians. He is doing a better job defending Judeo-Christian civilization, than most of the Bishops and Cardinals of the Catholic Church.

When most Church leaders in Europe and America pander to radical Muslims, Wilders denounces Islamic extremism. Most Church leaders in America and Europe spoke out against the burning of a Koran in Florida. But there was silence when Iraqi Christians were murdered in their churches. Wilders has been consistent in defending the rights of persecuted Christians, Jews, and women in the Muslim world.

Are some atheists doing the will of God? In the Bibilical story of the good Samaritan, two religious people refused to help a wounded man. But a non-believer, the Samaritan, took the wounded man to hospital on his donkey. Didn't that Samaritan qualify to go to heaven?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: christianity; geertwilders; judaism; radicalislam; vanity
If all atheists were like Wilders, Europe would witness a revival of Christianity.
1 posted on 12/09/2010 7:30:02 AM PST by pinochet
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To: pinochet

“Does God Use Atheists To Fulfill His Will?”

He uses those that worship false gods to fulfill His will, why wouldn’t He use atheists?


2 posted on 12/09/2010 7:31:37 AM PST by Grunthor (Silence is golden, Duct Tape is silver.)
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To: pinochet

I forget where it is written (I’m sure some FReeper will tell me), but there is a passage that says (paraphrasing) “If a heathen does according to the Law, is it not accorded to him as righteousness?”..........


3 posted on 12/09/2010 7:33:53 AM PST by Red Badger (The House finally fell on Nancy Pelosi..........)
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To: pinochet

God is absolutely sovereign and rules over all. All through the Bible God uses ungodly men to carry out His sovereign will beginning in Genesis.
Satan was created by God and is under God’s control. He cannot do anything without asking permission from God, first. Obviously, that does not qualify him for Heaven.
Being an instrument in God’s providence does not qualify a person for Heaven.
God is in the Heavens. He does whatsoever He pleases.


4 posted on 12/09/2010 7:38:25 AM PST by WestwardHo (Whom the gods would destroy, they first drive mad.)
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To: Red Badger

—from ¨The Pentateuch and Haftorahs¨, Dr JH Hertz, CH, Late Chief Rabbi Of The British Empire.... 

¨God had suffered the heathens to worship the sun,moon and stars as a stepping stone to a higher stage of religious belief. That worship of the heathen nations thus forms part of God´s guidance for humanity.
But as for the Israelites, God had given them first hand knowledge of Him through the medium of Revelation. It is for this reason that idolatry was for them an unpardonable offence; and everything that might seduce them from that Divine Revelation was to be ruthlessly destroyed.
Hence the amazing tolerance shown by Judaism of all ages towards the followers of other cults, so long as these were not steeped in immorality and crime. Thus the prophet Malachi declares even the sacrificial offering of heathens to be a glorification of God (Mal 1:11).
Equally striking is the attitude of the Rabbis toward the heathen world. War had been declared against the Canaanites not because of matters of dogma or ritual, but because of the savage cruelty and foul licentiousness of their lives and cult.
But the Rabbis never regarded the heathens of their own day as on the same moral level with the Canaanites. Their contemporary heathens in the Roman and Persian Empires obeyed the laws of conduct which the Rabbis deemed vital to the existence of human society, the so-called ´seven commandments given to the children of Noah´. They wisely held that in their religious life these heathens merely followed the traditional worship which they had inherited from their fathers before them, and they could not therefore be held responsible for failure to reach a true notion of the Unity of God. Such followers of other faiths – they taught – were judged by God purely by their moral life. ´The righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come,´ and are heirs of immortality, alongside the righteous in Israel.
A later midrash proclaimed: ´I call heaven and earth to witness that, whether it be Jew or heathen, man or woman, freeman or bondman – only according to their acts does the Divine spirit rest upon them. And in the darkest days of the Middle Ages, Solomon ibn Gabirol, the great philosopher and Synagogue hymn writer, sang
´Thou art the Lord,
And all beings are thy servants, Thy domain;
And through those who serve idols vain
Thine honor is not detracted from,
For they all aim to Thee to come.´
This is probably the earliest enunciation of religious tolerance in Western Europe.¨


5 posted on 12/09/2010 7:42:09 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Grunthor

It’s pretty clear that he does...
Romans 8:28


6 posted on 12/09/2010 7:43:03 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: pinochet

Does God Use Atheists To Fulfill His Will?

Absolutely.

Romans 9:17, 20-21 ASV

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth.


7 posted on 12/09/2010 7:46:27 AM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: pinochet

He used Pharaoh back in the old days did He not?


8 posted on 12/09/2010 7:48:14 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: onedoug

Thanks!.................


9 posted on 12/09/2010 7:49:16 AM PST by Red Badger (The House finally fell on Nancy Pelosi..........)
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i know God used a couple of confused lapsed catholics, one a pseudo christian, new ager...etc...to turn me back to my cathoic fatih...yup, he uses whoever and however, for the greater good.....most folks dont realize it...


10 posted on 12/09/2010 7:49:16 AM PST by raygunfan
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To: pinochet

>> Are some atheists doing the will of God? In the Bibilical story of the good Samaritan, two religious people refused to help a wounded man. But a non-believer, the Samaritan, took the wounded man to hospital on his donkey. Didn’t that Samaritan qualify to go to heaven?

Two separate questions ...

(1) Yes, I believe God can work through atheists and non-Christians to acheive His will.
(2) No, that doesn’t necessarily mean they “qualify” to go to heaven. I can’t speak for the Salvation of any particular individual (including the Samaritan), particularly those whose lives preceded the death and resurrection of Christ (I’m honestly not entirely sure about the qualifications for pre-Christ Salvation). But, someone doing something according to the will of God at sometime in their lives does not, by itself, grant Salvation.

SnakeDoc


11 posted on 12/09/2010 7:49:27 AM PST by SnakeDoctor ("They made it evident to every man [...] that human beings are many, but men are few." -- Herodotus)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Yes. And for all we know, Pharaoh may be in Heaven right now throwing one back with Moses.


12 posted on 12/09/2010 7:51:19 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Red Badger
What you're referring to but slightly incorrectly is Ezekiel 18 - one of my favorite chapters - because God clearly states His just and merciful self - stating when a righteous man does evil - his righteousness prior means NOTHING and likewise, when an evil man who has done many evil things turns from them and does righteousness, ALL his evil is not held against him.

Having said that, as others have answered, the Bible is replete of examples of God using whom He chooses, e.g., Pharoah, King of Assyria, etc, Romans who crucified Christ, to do His will.
13 posted on 12/09/2010 7:54:17 AM PST by time4good
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Pharaoh wasn’t an ‘atheist’... he believed he was god!


14 posted on 12/09/2010 7:56:23 AM PST by SparkyBass
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To: WestwardHo

I believe God uses satan to His advantage. Many times satans goes too far and runs people TO God instead of away from Him.

He’ll use whatever He wants to use. He’s God!


15 posted on 12/09/2010 8:00:08 AM PST by Terry Mross ( Reagan made one mistake: He chose Bush as his veep. We've been paying for it ever since.)
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To: All

Will an atheist get to Heaven? My belief is good deeds does not get you into Heaven. There’s only one way in.


16 posted on 12/09/2010 8:02:48 AM PST by Terry Mross ( Reagan made one mistake: He chose Bush as his veep. We've been paying for it ever since.)
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To: pinochet

All people have a connection to the divine and all people have a mission to learn lessons. Therefore all people manifest the will of God in some way.


17 posted on 12/09/2010 8:06:46 AM PST by bilhosty (Don' t tax people tax newsprint)
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To: time4good

I am familiar with Ezekiel, and that particular chapter. But there is a statement to the effect of what I wrote, somewhere, but I cannot remember where..............


18 posted on 12/09/2010 8:06:56 AM PST by Red Badger (The House finally fell on Nancy Pelosi..........)
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To: Terry Mross

Many times satans goes too far

He can’t go one step further than what God allows.

“Simon, Simon, Satan had requested permission to sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail, and when you are converted, encourage your brothers.”
I’ve feasted on this passage for over 20 years. When things seem out of control, and don’t make sense, think on what God has said here.


19 posted on 12/09/2010 8:08:14 AM PST by WestwardHo (Whom the gods would destroy, they first drive mad.)
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To: pinochet

As Bobby sang, “You Gotta Serve Somebody.”


20 posted on 12/09/2010 8:08:43 AM PST by dfwgator (Congratulations to Josh Hamilton - AL MVP)
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To: pinochet

Not to be contentious but if God gives man free will then God making people do His will takes that away. The only reason man does evil is because he can, he’s not prevented from doing it. Conversely man is capable of doing good as well. He has a choice. (Man being editorially mentioned).


21 posted on 12/09/2010 8:10:14 AM PST by ReverendJames (Only a lawyer and a painter can change black to white)
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To: pinochet
The only person in Europe who stands up in passionate defence of Europe's Judeo-Christian civilizational values

Pope Benedict's legacy will have been his clarion call to stop the secular death-march of the West.

The law of God is written on the human heart, and even atheists can act with those divine promptings.
22 posted on 12/09/2010 8:12:20 AM PST by jobim
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To: pinochet
Didn't that Samaritan qualify to go to heaven?

Uh, no. Not for that act alone.

23 posted on 12/09/2010 8:14:00 AM PST by itsahoot (We the people allowed Republican leadership to get us here, only God's Grace can get us out.)
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To: Red Badger

I just looked on Bible Gateway for 15 minutes through all references to ‘Righteousness’ (NIV) and only saw the turning away accredit - not current-heathen = accredit. Let me know if you find it.


24 posted on 12/09/2010 8:26:34 AM PST by time4good
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To: pinochet

Pharaoh


25 posted on 12/09/2010 8:30:03 AM PST by sigzero
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To: Red Badger
"I forget where it is written (I’m sure some FReeper will tell me), but there is a passage that says (paraphrasing) “If a heathen does according to the Law, is it not accorded to him as righteousness?”.........."

It's important to remember that scripture repeatedly says "None are righteous". If a heathen does according to the law, it would indeed be accorded to him as righteousness. But to be righteous under the law, you have to keep ALL of the law, ALL of the time.

To be righteous is to be perfect. "Be ye perfect, for I am perfect." "Be ye holy, for I am holy.". There are two ways to be perfect. Keep the law, which scripture says, nobody except Jesus has done or be forgiven.

Three times Jesus was asked how to have eternal life. The first two times, when asked by the lawyer and the rich young ruler, Jesus answered keep the law, but he did it in such a way, that it became apparent to the person that they had failed to keep the law. The third time to Nicodemus, he said you "must be born again." (John 3).

26 posted on 12/09/2010 8:35:01 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: time4good

1 Samuel 26:23
The LORD rewards everyone for their righteousness and faithfulness.

2 Samuel 22:25
The LORD has rewarded me according to my righteousness, according to my cleanness in his sight.

Psalm 33:5
The LORD loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of his unfailing love.

Proverbs 15:9
The LORD detests the way of the wicked, but he loves those who pursue righteousness.

Isaiah 41:2 (In reference to CYRUS, a heathen king of the Persians and the Medes)
“Who has stirred up one from the east, calling him in righteousness to his service ? He hands nations over to him and subdues kings before him. He turns them to dust with his sword, to windblown chaff with his bow.

Still looking.................


27 posted on 12/09/2010 8:51:44 AM PST by Red Badger (The House finally fell on Nancy Pelosi..........)
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To: pinochet

God Bless Geert Wilders . . . and He has.

If Mother Theresa were an atheist, would you blaspheme her?

It comes down to Good Works or Good Faith?
Some churches believe that good works alone will not get you to heaven. Some churches believe that no matter what you do, your fate is predestined by God. Christian dogma can be quite incoherent.

Reincarnation and karma ( which were accepted by the Catholic faith for hundreds of years ) are the only logical precepts that help me understand all the cruelty, inhumanity, and inexplicable unfairness ( why bad things happen to the good and innocent ) of this world.

For example, my belief in reincarnation helps me understand abortion. I know that aborted soul will be given another chance in a better home. The moral dilemma is all on the woman, and her decision will affect her karma.

I’ve never understood predestination. Does God know what we are going to do before we do it? What is the point of that? Karma is the consequence of our free will.

Sorry to get off track. Geert Wilders is a man of good works, atheist or not. Now when will Glenn Beck realize that?

In this lifetime, Wilders is an atheist, albeit a rather good one who risks his life to guide his countrymen. Not a lot of Christians can say that about themselves.


28 posted on 12/09/2010 8:56:30 AM PST by A'elian' nation (“Political correctness does not legislate tolerance; it only organizes hatred.” Jacques Barzun)
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To: pinochet

“But a non-believer, the Samaritan,”

False. The Bible never said or implied that. The Samaritans were only half Jewish and therefore were looked down upon by fullblooded Jews who regarded them as little better than dogs. That does not imply that Samaritans had no religious faith, as evidenced by the woman Jesus met at the well.


29 posted on 12/09/2010 9:35:30 AM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: pinochet

Of course God uses atheists to fulfill his will. Witness Herod, Pontius Pilate, Abraham’s illegitimate son Ishmael, etc.

It’s really a very dumb question.


30 posted on 12/10/2010 12:21:13 PM PST by tom h
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