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French launch bid to rewrite history books w/claim that Lindbergh was NOT first to fly/the Atlantic
dailymail.co.uk ^ | 11-13=10 | "reporter"

Posted on 11/13/2010 5:17:28 AM PST by atomic conspiracy

Charles Lindbergh is renowned as the first person to fly across the Atlantic, but according to new research, he was beaten to the achievement ten days earlier. According to French aviation enthusiast Bernard Decré, Lindbergh was only the first to complete the crossing and survive, with two French pilots believed to have reached the coast of Canada ten days before Lindbergh's Spirit of St Louis touched down in Paris in May 1927. New documentary evidence found in the U.S. national archives may prove that Charles Nungesser and Francois Coli completed a transatlantic crossing and were the first men to do so, though they were likely killed in the process. The fate of Nungesser and Coli has been called the 'Everest of aviation mysteries' with their disappearance sparking a raft of conspiracy theories, including speculation that their sea plane, L'Oiseau Blanc, was shot down by Maine bootleggers who feared police surveillance. But the discovery of a U.S. Coast Guard telegram which tells of the wreckage of a white aircraft seen floating some 200 miles off the New York coast on August 18 1927 could have solved the riddle - and changed Lindbergh's role in the history books. The American aviator successfully flew the Spirit of St Louis from New York to Le Bourget in France on May 20-12 1927, winning a $25,000 prize offered by hotelier Raymond Orteig as well as claiming the U.S. Medal of Honour and the French Legion d'Honneur. Yet according to Mr Decré, 70, Lindbergh's triumph - and the improved U.S.-Franco relations that followed - was only made possible by a cover-up of the fateful flight of L'Oiseau Blanc. Wrecked: Documentary evidence tells of the remains of a white plane, possibly Nungesser and Coli's L'Oiseau Blanc (pictured), being found 200 miles off the New York coast

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: charleslindbergh; dumb; endzonefumble; france; frogs; germany; godsgravesglyphs; strawman
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This recurring story is the greatest strawman in aviation. Lindbergh did not claim to be the first to fly across the Atlantic and that claim is not made on his behalf by anyone with any real knowledge of the subject.

Early Transatlantic flights:

The first people to fly across the Atlantic were the crew of the US Navy flying boat NC-4, who flew from Newfoundland to Plymouth England via the Azores and Portugal in 1919. They arrived on May 31st, but the landing in Lisbon a few days earlier completed the crossing so far as a record is concerned. They were followed shortly by John Alcock and Arthur Whitten Brown, who flew non-stop from Newfoundland to Clifden, Ireland in mid-June.

The British airshp R-34 made the first east-west crossing from East Fortune Scotland to Mineola New York between July 5-9 1919. The airship carried 34 people including a stowaway. It returned to Britain a few days later, completing the first double crossing.

Note that all of these flights took place within a few week's time nearly 8 years before Nungesser, Coli, and Lindbergh. There were a number of others in the intervening time.

Lindbergh's flight was a highly publicized attempt to collect a specific prize for the first non-stop flight from New York to Paris. It was also the first solo flight across the Atlantic and the first non-stop flight from the US to mainland Europe. More than 80 people had flown the Atlantic before him and lived to tell about it (unlike Nungesser and Coli). As for the disparaging comment about Alcock and Brown's flight being "short," even that qualification does not justify the headline, since the non-stop delivery flight of the Airship Los Angeles in 1924 was actually much longer than Lindbergh's (Friedrichhafen Germany to Lakehurst New Jersey).

1 posted on 11/13/2010 5:17:31 AM PST by atomic conspiracy
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To: atomic conspiracy

Btw, headline edited to fit 100 character limit.


2 posted on 11/13/2010 5:21:50 AM PST by atomic conspiracy (Victory in Iraq: Worst defeat for activist media since Goebbels shot himself.)
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To: atomic conspiracy

Fine with me. In later years, Lindbergh was an envirofascist, an anti-civilization, tree-hugging, earth worshipping whackjob.


3 posted on 11/13/2010 5:22:55 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (Starve the beast. Save the liver!)
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

True but let’s go to war with France anyway....


4 posted on 11/13/2010 5:24:57 AM PST by rrrod (at home in Medellin Colombia)
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To: atomic conspiracy

If the wreckage was 200 miles off the coast, then they didn’t make it. Also I know that it takes 2 frogs to equal 1 American, but if there were 2 of them then it was not a solo flight.

Case closed.


5 posted on 11/13/2010 5:26:58 AM PST by Big Mack (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat VEGETABLES!)
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To: atomic conspiracy
I believe that the airship Los Angeles was the only one to use the mooring mast on the Empire State Building.
6 posted on 11/13/2010 5:29:20 AM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

He had his faults but P-38 pilots in the Pacific seemed to like the modifications he made to the plane to get better mileage.


7 posted on 11/13/2010 5:29:37 AM PST by Scanian
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To: atomic conspiracy
Don't you just love revisionist history...


8 posted on 11/13/2010 5:29:37 AM PST by darkwing104 (Lets get dangerous)
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To: rrrod

Seems like I read in Ripley’s when I was a kid that a couple dozen people preceded Lindy in dirigibles and larger, multi-passenger aircraft.


9 posted on 11/13/2010 5:31:10 AM PST by Scanian
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To: atomic conspiracy

I’ve always known he wasn’t the first, just the first solo flight.


10 posted on 11/13/2010 5:31:49 AM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: rrrod
“Their aircraft took off from Paris on 8 May 1927, was sighted once more over Ireland, and then was never seen again. The disappearance of Nungesser is considered one of the great mysteries in the history of aviation, and modern speculation is that the aircraft was either lost over the Atlantic or crashed in Newfoundland or Maine.”
Just like World War Two, where the French (Surrender Monkeys) won by surrendering before their towns and cities were destroyed.
By using this logic, then the French (Ungrateful Surrender Monkeys) are correct and the unfound crash site proves this.
11 posted on 11/13/2010 5:32:16 AM PST by Wooly
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To: atomic conspiracy
Lindbergh was only the first to complete the crossing and survive

That last word seems important.
12 posted on 11/13/2010 5:33:24 AM PST by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: atomic conspiracy

two French pilots believed to have reached the coast of Canada ten days before Lindbergh’s Spirit of St Louis touched down in Paris in May 1927.


(1) 34 hours, that was the length of the flight. Two pilots (who can switch off and sleep when tired) is a big difference between a single pilot.

(2) They crashed. Landing the plane is part of the process. I know any landing you can walk away from is a good landing, but they didn’t walk away—they were killed.


13 posted on 11/13/2010 5:34:22 AM PST by Brookhaven (Voter Fraud is Treason)
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To: Scanian

It was more like 80. Alcock and Brown made a dual flight in 1919, just like Nungesser and Coli would have 8 years later.


14 posted on 11/13/2010 5:34:27 AM PST by atomic conspiracy (Victory in Iraq: Worst defeat for activist media since Goebbels shot himself.)
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To: Scanian

Yes, I saw this story on a show about the air war in the Pacific.


15 posted on 11/13/2010 5:35:05 AM PST by Dr. Ursus
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To: Scanian

Did I mention he was chummy with Nazis?


16 posted on 11/13/2010 5:35:53 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (Starve the beast. Save the liver!)
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To: atomic conspiracy

It doesn’t count if you die tryin’.


17 posted on 11/13/2010 5:36:45 AM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: atomic conspiracy

Lindbergh’s claim wasn’t the first crossing but the first solo crossing.


18 posted on 11/13/2010 5:36:59 AM PST by RoadTest (Religion is a substitute for the relationship God wants with you.)
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult
I read on the web years ago about the Los Angeles mooring on the Empire State Building. Now I find that it didn't happen.

http://www.esbnyc.com/tourism/tourism_facts_esbnews_july2000.cfm

19 posted on 11/13/2010 5:37:10 AM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

Yeah, I know...but he was Scanian too, so I had to say something good about him.

Shoot, half the British Royal Family as well as Old Man Kennedy were taken in by the Nazis early on.


20 posted on 11/13/2010 5:38:45 AM PST by Scanian
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To: atomic conspiracy

“It was also the first solo flight across the Atlantic”

That’s how I remember it being put.


21 posted on 11/13/2010 5:39:58 AM PST by Tublecane
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
Lindbergh's many personal shortcomings do not change the facts of history. Even if they did, and we also exclude the solo qualification, precedence would go to Americans Clarence Chamberlain and Charles Levine, who flew from New York to Eisleben Germany a few weeks after Lindbergh and got there alive.
22 posted on 11/13/2010 5:40:04 AM PST by atomic conspiracy (Victory in Iraq: Worst defeat for activist media since Goebbels shot himself.)
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To: atomic conspiracy

Thanks for the correction.

50 year-old memories can be treacherous.

Hell, remembering what I had for lunch yesterday can be a challenge!


23 posted on 11/13/2010 5:40:15 AM PST by Scanian
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To: cripplecreek
That last word seems important.

Yeah, surviving does make a big difference, LOL.

24 posted on 11/13/2010 5:41:54 AM PST by IndyTiger
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To: Brookhaven

“know any landing you can walk away from is a good landing”

I’ve never liked this saying. Doesn’t everyone realize planes cost money? How is crashing them a good thing, even if you walk away?


25 posted on 11/13/2010 5:42:27 AM PST by Tublecane
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To: Big Mack

Landing a dead man on the Moon wouldn’t have been much of an achievement, and we would look like fools or French journalists if we claimed that it trumped a later flight by someone who got back alive.


26 posted on 11/13/2010 5:43:37 AM PST by atomic conspiracy (Victory in Iraq: Worst defeat for activist media since Goebbels shot himself.)
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To: atomic conspiracy

“Charles Lindbergh is renowned as the first person to fly across the Atlantic, but according to new research, he was beaten to the achievement ten days earlier.”

Don’t you love it when people spice up stories by pulling myths out of thin air and debunking them? Lucky Lindy (the flying fool) has always been, to my knowledge, renowned as the first person to fly solo across the Atlantic.

Now I hear he was the first to fly across the Atlantic period.

But wait, he wasn’t. There were these other guys.

Oh, but they died. So I guess he was.

Ugh, what a waste of time.


27 posted on 11/13/2010 5:47:21 AM PST by Tublecane
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To: atomic conspiracy

I think you have to live in order to collect the prize.


28 posted on 11/13/2010 5:50:25 AM PST by VanDeKoik (1 million in stimulus dollars paid for this tagline!)
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To: atomic conspiracy

My history book says it was a guy named Mohammed.


29 posted on 11/13/2010 5:53:18 AM PST by MNDude (And we were SO close to acheiving utopia)
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

Plus, didn’t he support the Germans during WWII?


30 posted on 11/13/2010 5:54:37 AM PST by dhs12345
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To: MNDude

...on his magic carpet.


31 posted on 11/13/2010 5:56:33 AM PST by dhs12345
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To: Tublecane
I love the picture caption:

"Pioneers: New evidence suggest Charles Nungesser and Francois Coli may have died after successfully completing a transatlantic flight in 1927"

By this standard, poor Lt/Col Custer died after successfully attacking an Indian encampment.

32 posted on 11/13/2010 5:56:49 AM PST by atomic conspiracy (Victory in Iraq: Worst defeat for activist media since Goebbels shot himself.)
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To: atomic conspiracy
Article sucks. Lindy was not the first to fly across the Atlantic. Many had done so prior to him. He was the first to do it SOLO.
33 posted on 11/13/2010 5:58:02 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (What flavor Kool-aid are you drinking?)
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To: Scanian

Mexican?


34 posted on 11/13/2010 5:59:16 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (What flavor Kool-aid are you drinking?)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Close...I did make some Caribbean-style beans to go with rice and boneless pork ribs.

But I had to think real hard to remember.


35 posted on 11/13/2010 6:11:56 AM PST by Scanian
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To: atomic conspiracy

“By this standard, poor Lt/Col Custer died after successfully attacking an Indian encampment.”

LOL


36 posted on 11/13/2010 6:12:26 AM PST by Tublecane
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To: atomic conspiracy
Based on what I've read about Nungesser,* I doubt he'd appreciate some advocate going around padding his accomplishments or denigrating someone else's. His luck ran out, Lindbergh's didn't.

Mr. niteowl77

*His WWI career is sadly overlooked today.

37 posted on 11/13/2010 6:14:11 AM PST by niteowl77 (I don't mind them stewing in their own juices, but I object to them stewing me in their own juices.)
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

not only that, I just saw his biography on TV...the guy had 3 women by whom he had a load of children in Germany..while still married to Anne Morrow Lindbergh.

He felt he had those superior Aryan genes and wanted to make sure they were dispersed as much as possible for posterity.

What a piece of work.


38 posted on 11/13/2010 6:15:09 AM PST by Dudoight
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To: atomic conspiracy
Well Mr. Decré, we have a saying in this country.

Close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.

39 posted on 11/13/2010 6:16:00 AM PST by sonofagun (Some think my cynicism grows with age. I like to think of it as wisdom!)
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To: atomic conspiracy
It was more like 80

About 80 and a kitteh *The R34 had a cat on the crew list

40 posted on 11/13/2010 6:18:32 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce - Karl Marx)
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To: atomic conspiracy

Sorry France, but Nungesser and Coli crashed and burned and died and FAILED.


41 posted on 11/13/2010 6:22:15 AM PST by libertylover (The problem with Obama is not that his skin is too black, it's that his ideas are too RED.)
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To: niteowl77

A good point. Nungesser was a great, great aviator (43 victories, third highest among French fliers). I don’t think he would appreciate this a bit.


42 posted on 11/13/2010 6:22:59 AM PST by atomic conspiracy (Victory in Iraq: Worst defeat for activist media since Goebbels shot himself.)
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To: atomic conspiracy
FRENCH SEEK TO RE-WRITE HISTORY

The Vichy government was still in charge even while the nazis occupied Paris.

The French Army lead by the great war General, De Gaulle, spearheaded the invasion on D-Day {June 6, 1944} and freed the American Army from the clutches of those nasty Nazis.

All over Europe, the French Army freed those American prisoners of war, and to this day, June the 6th is regarded as the Second Birthday of the United States and is the reason that the USA spends so much of it's time and treasure protecting the French people today.

Remember, when the frogs are in the water, keep the temperature increase at a nice even, low rate, and they will hum themselves to sleep...before boiling.

43 posted on 11/13/2010 6:25:21 AM PST by USS Alaska
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To: Tublecane

Compared to being dead it’s good. Some things are assessed in relation to other things.


44 posted on 11/13/2010 6:34:46 AM PST by Houghton M.
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To: MNDude

...on a horse, no doubt.


45 posted on 11/13/2010 6:46:22 AM PST by onedoug
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To: cripplecreek
Indeed. That word "Survive" carries all the glory.
Just like the fact that Chuck Yeager was the first to survive breaking the sound barrier. There has been speculation that other pilots during the war reached the speed of sound in dives during dog fights and their aircraft broke and they didn't survive.
46 posted on 11/13/2010 6:48:07 AM PST by Falcon4.0
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To: rrrod
True but let’s go to war with France anyway....

NO!

We can't afford to rebuild France after they surrender!

47 posted on 11/13/2010 7:00:23 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 662 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: All
Interestingly, under the present rules of the FAI (FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE) Sporting Code you have to survive to claim a record...:^)

A5 Uncompleted Flight. A flight is deemed to be uncompleted if; EITHER,
An accident occurs during the flight resulting in the death of any member of the crew within 48 hours or, except for parachuting events, any person leaves the aircraft during the flight ; .....

48 posted on 11/13/2010 7:02:43 AM PST by az_gila
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To: Big Mack

Sigh! Do you really think the French really care about the facts?

I think the operative word here, even if the alleged French aviators made it to the North American coast, is “successfully”. Lindburgh “successfully” (meaning he survived): flew across the Atlantic to France—alone.


49 posted on 11/13/2010 7:05:34 AM PST by dools0007world
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To: atomic conspiracy
Couldn’t figure out why The Telegraph would publish this junk, then noticed the link was to the Daily Mail. Oddly, there's a quote to The Independent near the end of the article..

As you've already done an excellent job debunking the bizarre straw men in the article, no need to comment on that. I do have to wonder if the Daily Mail missed a few heads when they recently chopped a thousand from their work force. They either missed these idiot staffers or cut one too many editors.

50 posted on 11/13/2010 7:07:02 AM PST by kingu (Favorite Sticker: Lost hope, and Obama took my change.)
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