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Unearthed cities in Southern Siberia could rewrite Aryan history
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Posted on 10/04/2010 7:10:56 PM PDT by James C. Bennett

A new study has suggested that recently unearthed cities in Southern Siberia could rewrite Aryan history-as they are believed to be the original home of the Aryans.

Twenty of the spiral-shaped settlements, believed to be the original home of the Aryan people, have been identified, and there are about 50 more suspected sites.

They all lie buried in a region more than 640km long near Russia's border with Kazakhstan.

The cities are apparently 3500-4000 years ago and are about the same size as several of the city-states of ancient Greece.

If archaeologists confirm the cities as Aryan, they could be the remnants of a civilisation that spread through Europe and much of Asia.

"Potentially, this could rival ancient Greece in the age of the heroes," the Australian quoted British historian Bettany Hughes as saying.

"We are all told that there is this kind of mother tongue, proto-Indo-European, from which all the languages we know emerge.

"I was very excited to hear on the archeological grapevine that in exactly the period I am an expert in, this whole new Bronze Age civilisation had been discovered on the steppe of southern Siberia," she said.

The first city, known as Arkaim, was discovered in 1989, soon after the soviet authorities allowed non-military aerial photography for the first time.

Hughes said that some of the strongest evidence that the cities could be the home of the Aryans comes from a series of horse burials.

Several ancient Indian texts written by Aryans recount similar rituals.

"These ancient Indian texts and hymns describe sacrifices of horses and burials and the way the meat is cut off and the way the horse is buried with its master.

"If you match this with the way the skeletons and the graves are being dug up in Russia, they are a millimetre-perfect match," she said. (ANI)


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aryan; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; history; india; indoeuropean; indoeuropeans; kazakhstan; russia; tocharian; tocharians; ukraine
From an earlier post:


1 posted on 10/04/2010 7:11:02 PM PDT by James C. Bennett
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To: zot

ping


2 posted on 10/04/2010 7:13:36 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: SunkenCiv; blam

New article ping.


3 posted on 10/04/2010 7:14:47 PM PDT by James C. Bennett
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To: James C. Bennett
Hughes said that some of the strongest evidence that the cities could be the home of the Aryans comes from a series of horse burials.

This makes a lot of sense to connect to the Indo-Europeans, then. I have heard it is theorized the reason the Indo-Europeans were able to spread their language around was because they were the first to domesticate the horse.

4 posted on 10/04/2010 7:18:27 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Vince Ferrer
"I have heard it is theorized the reason the Indo-Europeans were able to spread their language around was because they were the first to domesticate the horse."

Humans were unable to penetrate and survive in the deep steppes until the horse was domesticated...everything changed with horses and wagons.

5 posted on 10/04/2010 7:25:23 PM PDT by blam
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To: James C. Bennett

Yo. Black Athena. Shove over!


6 posted on 10/04/2010 7:44:59 PM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast ( A window seat, a jug of elderberry wine, and thou.)
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To: James C. Bennett

Can you tell me where Hungarian fits into this tree?


7 posted on 10/04/2010 8:14:25 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: James C. Bennett

Hmmm...the land of Nod, perhaps (re. Cain)?


8 posted on 10/04/2010 8:28:28 PM PDT by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: Amberdawn
Hungarian doesn't belong to this family of languages at all.

Hungarian (Magyar) is a member of the Ugric family--the other languages in the group are spoken by small numbers of people in western Siberia. The Ugric languages are related to the Finnic languages (Finnish, Estonian, and a few others) in the "Finno-Ugric" group. The Finno-Ugric languages are grouped with the Samoyed languages to form the Uralic language family (the 4 Samoyed languages combined are said to have only 30,000 speakers).

9 posted on 10/04/2010 8:57:26 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: James C. Bennett

I think 1500-2000 BC is too recent for the ancestral language from which all the Indo-European languages spring. The Anatolian languages like Hittite were probably in Asia Minor already by around 2000 and proto-Greek may have entered Greece somewhere about 2000. But if they mean Aryan in the narrower sense as the ancestor of the Indo-Iranian languages, then the 2000-1500 BC time frame may be about right.


10 posted on 10/04/2010 9:01:24 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Verginius Rufus
The relationship between Finnish and Estonian is pretty obvious if basic words like the numbers are compared, while the relationship between those languages and Hungarian is much more distant and much less obvious.

One point of contact is the word for 100--sata in Finnish, sada in Estonian, and szaz (pronounced "sahz") in Hungarian...all derived from a form similar to the Avestan (Old Persian) word satem meaning "one hundred." Maybe that means the Proto-Finno-Ugric speakers didn't have a word for 100 until they came into contact with the Proto-Indo-European speakers. Or maybe they just thought the PIE word was cooler.

11 posted on 10/04/2010 9:11:34 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: James C. Bennett

The family tree is fantastic.


12 posted on 10/04/2010 9:49:01 PM PDT by Gertie
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To: Verginius Rufus

O.K. Thanks for the info.


13 posted on 10/04/2010 9:55:26 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: Gertie; James C. Bennett

14 posted on 10/04/2010 11:19:37 PM PDT by Cronos (This Church is holy, the one Church, the true Church, the Catholic Church-St.Augustine)
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To: Cronos

Thanks, Cronos!


15 posted on 10/04/2010 11:43:32 PM PDT by James C. Bennett
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To: Cronos

Interesting chart but it’s possible to quibble about some of the details. I don’t know why they have Flemish as a separate language from Dutch when they don’t have Walloon as a separate language from French. They omit Sardinian, Galician, and Vlach among the Romance languages (I think Galician is almost identical to Portuguese but it’s treated as a separate language). Tzakonian is a Greek dialect that is very different from standard Modern Greek so it could arguably be treated as a separate descendant of ancient Greek. If Afrikaans is regarded as separate from Dutch, as it should be, why not treat Haitian Creole as a separate language from French?


16 posted on 10/05/2010 7:23:05 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: GreyFriar

Very interesting. Thanks for the ping.


17 posted on 10/05/2010 12:52:16 PM PDT by zot
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To: Cronos

Hey, thanks.


18 posted on 10/07/2010 12:46:01 PM PDT by Gertie
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To: James C. Bennett

No worries —


19 posted on 10/07/2010 10:54:10 PM PDT by Cronos (Catholic, Conservative: synonyms)
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20 posted on 04/02/2012 4:53:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: James C. Bennett; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Note: this topic is from 10/04/2010.

Thanks James C. Bennett. Sorry I missed this one, no idea how it happened. .

Blast from the Past.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


21 posted on 04/02/2012 4:53:17 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Where are the horses that the Aryans rode into India, hmm?

Because they never went to India, that’s why.


22 posted on 04/03/2012 2:24:05 AM PDT by SatinDoll (No Foreign Nationals as our President!)
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To: Verginius Rufus

Thanks for the comments. This is the graphic with which I’m most familiar re: language relationships. This will make a good conversation starter for our homeschool.


23 posted on 04/03/2012 6:42:36 AM PDT by FourPeas ("Maladjusted and wigging out is no way to go through life, son." -hg)
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To: SatinDoll

If they never went to India, why do they have such similar, and rather unusual burial customs between India and Russia? And why are there similarities in language between Russian and Indian languages? The original reason for the proposed existence of Aryans and their travels is due to language similarities between European, Asian, and Indian languages, not any particular archeological sites.


24 posted on 04/03/2012 10:23:52 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Vince Ferrer

Thirty or so kilometres off the southern coast of India lie drowned cities made of stone, some with pyramids.

These cities would have been above sea level 18,000 years ago. The Aryans didn’t invade India; the movement of people northerly as the sea levels rose has been corroborated genetically.

Those peoples from southern India were ver dark skinned, and the prejudice in believing they had anything to do with spreading Indo-European languages is strong. I suspect Sanskrit is quite a bit older than most historians would acknowledge and dates from before the end of the Ice Age.


25 posted on 04/04/2012 12:01:53 AM PDT by SatinDoll (No Foreign Nationals as our President!)
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To: SunkenCiv

You’re welcome!


26 posted on 04/05/2012 12:56:11 AM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: Verginius Rufus

“Finnish contains borrowings from all stages of Indo-Iranian, that is from Pre- and Proto-Indo-Aryan (precursor of Old Indic ~ Sanskrit), from Pre- and Proto-Iranian, from Pre– and Proto- Balto-Slavic as well as Proto- and North(-East)ern Baltic, and last but not at all least from all stages of Pre- and Proto-Germanic development.
The very earliest borrowings appear to come from a dialect close to Proto-Indo-European (PIE) itself. In some of these oldest borrowings speakers of Finno-Ugrian have reproduced so called laryngeal (‘H-like’) sounds of PIE, which later disappeared from all IE languages except Hittite and its closest relatives. Borrowings with laryngeals which appear only in the western Finno-Permic languages, often only in Baltic-Finnic or in Saami (“Lapp”), may also originate from an early Pre- or Proto-Balto-Slavic IE dialect, a dialect which may well have been a very archaic one in comparison to others within the Indo-European language family a couple of millennia B.C.”
http://tcoimom.suntuubi.com/?cat=10
Lexicon of Early Indo-European Loanwords Preserved in Finnish
http://kotisivu.lumonetti.fi/js749/lexicon.htm


27 posted on 04/05/2012 3:08:18 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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