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Gold Coin Sellers Angered by New Tax Law
abcnews.com ^ | 07/21/10 | RICH BLAKE

Posted on 07/21/2010 8:25:54 AM PDT by DFG

Those already outraged by the president's health care legislation now have a new bone of contention -- a scarcely noticed tack-on provision to the law that puts gold coin buyers and sellers under closer government scrutiny.

The issue is rising to the fore just as gold coin dealers are attracting attention over sales tactics.

Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will amend the Internal Revenue Code to expand the scope of Form 1099. Currently, 1099 forms are used to track and report the miscellaneous income associated with services rendered by independent contractors or self-employed individuals.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: barter; gold; goldbugping; obamacare
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1 posted on 07/21/2010 8:25:55 AM PDT by DFG
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To: DFG

Ping for later


2 posted on 07/21/2010 8:27:32 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: DFG

I’ve got to pee real bad but the department of urination enforcement hasn’t sent the forms back to me so I can fill them out in triplicate and allow 4 to 6 weeks for processing.


3 posted on 07/21/2010 8:29:58 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: DFG

The U.S, Government has a particularly sordid record with regard to private ownership of gold - right down there with the worst socialist regimes!


4 posted on 07/21/2010 8:32:30 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism - "Who-whom?")
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To: DFG

Alla FDR? Funny, socialists hate all forms of portable and non-reportable wealth. All your money belongs to us.


5 posted on 07/21/2010 8:34:01 AM PDT by equalitybeforethelaw
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To: DFG

Six hundred bucks?
What’s the average apartment rent these days?

Man, what a cluster-fudge!!


6 posted on 07/21/2010 8:34:16 AM PDT by djf (They ain't "immigrants". They're "CRIMMIGRANTS"!!!!)
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To: cripplecreek

“I’ve got to pee real bad”

If your pee’s worth more than $600 and you’ve “transferred ownership” I believe PPACA requires you to file a 1099 form.


7 posted on 07/21/2010 8:35:31 AM PDT by DrC
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To: DFG

I guess this law doesn’t affect illegal aliens. Just make up a SSN and tell them your name is Gomez. What are they gonna do, charge you out of state tuition or something?


8 posted on 07/21/2010 8:35:42 AM PDT by equalitybeforethelaw
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To: DFG

This is the answer to all the people who yap about confiscation. The government doesn’t want your gold, just your life.


9 posted on 07/21/2010 8:36:00 AM PDT by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: DrC

1099P


10 posted on 07/21/2010 8:37:10 AM PDT by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: equalitybeforethelaw; Mrs. B.S. Roberts

In the movie “Ben Hur”, Roman Admiral Quintas Arius tells those chained to their oars, “Row well, you live to serve this ship.”
In 2010, the US Government says to those chained to their jobs, “Earn well and pay your taxes. You live to serve the STATE.”
It’s called PROGRESS.


11 posted on 07/21/2010 8:37:35 AM PDT by CaptainAmiigaf ( NY Times: We print the news as it fits our views.)
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To: palmer

I understand that slavery at it’s peak only required 38% of a person’s life. I think with the current tax structure we may have exceeded that.


12 posted on 07/21/2010 8:39:56 AM PDT by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: headsonpikes

I was thinking the same thing.


13 posted on 07/21/2010 8:40:35 AM PDT by cvq3842
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To: CaptainAmiigaf

The key is you will be taxed on your gold each year, until eventually it makes no sense to own it. Further proof Obama is trying to ruin the country.


14 posted on 07/21/2010 8:40:51 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: DFG
If you make less than $250K per year your taxes will not increase one dime, said Obozo. He left out, “if you are no longer breathing.”
15 posted on 07/21/2010 8:41:10 AM PDT by drypowder
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To: jiggyboy

Ping


16 posted on 07/21/2010 8:45:06 AM PDT by Born Conservative ("I'm a fan of disruptors" - Nancy Pelosi)
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To: DFG

“We have to pass the Health Care Bill to see what is in it”

Merry Christmas in July!


17 posted on 07/21/2010 8:51:29 AM PDT by VRW Conspirator (George W. Bush was the last conservative democrat)
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To: DFG

18 posted on 07/21/2010 8:51:33 AM PDT by Errant
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To: DFG

Optimists buy gold. Pessimists buy brass and lead.


19 posted on 07/21/2010 8:52:20 AM PDT by donmeaker ("Get off my lawn." Clint Eastwood, Green Ford Torino)
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To: DFG
The tax code tweak is expected to raise $17 billion over the next 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

$1.7B per year in new taxes to the government is what they expect. At what cost in extra time and accounting to the taxpayers? According to the Obama, who gives a 'rats ass.

20 posted on 07/21/2010 8:54:10 AM PDT by Armando Guerra
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To: CaptainAmiigaf
"It’s called PROGRESS."

PROGRESSIVISM ?

21 posted on 07/21/2010 8:55:31 AM PDT by litehaus (A memory tooooo longt A)
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To: DFG
This is only Act-1. It is meant to track the Gold to better implement Act-2 which be either the FDR move - confiscation - or the European one - a “wealth tax.”
22 posted on 07/21/2010 8:57:00 AM PDT by drpix
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To: DFG

Buy bullion, not coins.

Bullion has less markup, and you can buy it by the gram if you like.


23 posted on 07/21/2010 8:57:41 AM PDT by agere_contra (Obama did more damage to the Gulf economy in one day than Pemex/Ixtoc did in nine months)
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To: DFG

Next you’ll start seeing “$500 Yard Sales”. The sale lasts until they’ve sold $500 dollars worth of stuff.


24 posted on 07/21/2010 8:57:57 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: DFG

So...
I earn $1200.
The government takes half that.
Leaving me with $600.
I buy some gold for $600.
It goes up, it goes down.
I sell the gold for $600.
I submit my 1099s form.
The government takes half that.
Leaving me with $300.
The government got $900 out of the deal.
WTF?


25 posted on 07/21/2010 9:00:04 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (+)
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To: DFG

What other hidden and little noticed provisions are in the “healthcare” law? How many things are in there that the democrats knew about but “didn’t read?”
This is change without the hope.


26 posted on 07/21/2010 9:00:21 AM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (liberalism: severe deterioration of the thinking apparattus)
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To: DFG

Great. The government collects $1.7B a year in extra tax revenue by imposing compliance costs vastly in excess of this. There’s 6 million firms in the U.S. http://www.sba.gov/advo/research/data_uspdf.xls

Pretend each one only has 2 $600 transactions per month for which a 1099 has to be filed. That’s 144M forms. Now assume that between filing forms and IRS processing them it costs $10 per form. That’s $1.4B. If the average is 4 forms per month (1 per week), it’s $2.8B etc. I don’t know the true average, but have heard estimates that the total annual number of forms nationwide will be in the billions.

This is another classic case of Mickey Mouse accounting in the health reform bill. Health reform gets credited with $1.7B in savings, but all the compliance costs imposed on taxpayers and IRS are “hidden costs” not accounted for. From a social point of view, this new rule clearly is cost-ineffective, but Congress dumped it in the bill in its desperation to make it appear as if the true cost of the bill would be below $1T.


27 posted on 07/21/2010 9:05:53 AM PDT by DrC
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged

This 1099 issue will swamp the govt computers make every tax return an error and will increase the volume of grey/black market. If you already own gold..then why sell it via a dealer with a 1099..when you can sell it to a private buyer for cash? I recommend that everyone should start hording some cash that will be also more valuable in a cash market. If you can buy a service for cash for less if no reports are issue..why use a check or credit card?
If you can get paid more (net) in cash than reported income..why report? The higher the taxes and reporting requirements the blacker our economy will get. We will all take up the tricks of the illegals and drug dealers.


28 posted on 07/21/2010 9:09:25 AM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: Scythian

......The key is you will be taxed on your gold each year.....

I would argue that the point is to establish a document that is the basis for the transaction. Future gains and losses will be based on the 1099 issued at the time of the sale.

Pretty much all financial instruments have some formal document to establish a basis


29 posted on 07/21/2010 9:10:37 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... The winds of war are freshening)
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To: DFG

Quick route to a thugocracy:

(1) Criminalize common acts

(2) Make compliance infeasible

(3) Arrest whomever you want based on political reasons.

See also fascism, national socialism, marxism, and all other forms of totalitarianism.


30 posted on 07/21/2010 9:11:25 AM PDT by piytar (The Tea Party Express is about to roll over the useless National "Tea Party" Federation...)
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat

No “may” about it - we are slaves.


31 posted on 07/21/2010 9:15:20 AM PDT by piytar (The Tea Party Express is about to roll over the useless National "Tea Party" Federation...)
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To: palmer
This is the answer to all the people who yap about confiscation. The government doesn’t want your gold, just your life.

What do you do after you destroyed the middle classes ability to save money for their retirement?

You attack Wall Street to destroy the stocks they have in their IRA and 401Ks.

Then What do you do when all they have left is to flee to gold because the dollar is not worth the money it’s printed on?

You go after the surfs last last safe haven, you take away their gold by taxing it away.

The next move for this administration will be to outlaw the possession of any form of gold.

This is what Obama calls change, and in the end that is exactly what we will have left ,change.

Unfortunately for us though, we will not have that change in gold. Maybe copper, if we are so lucky.
32 posted on 07/21/2010 9:16:32 AM PDT by OneVike (A Freeper in Christ since February of 1998)
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To: OneVike

Nope, not copper. That’s a useful industrial metal with some worth, which is why pennies aren’t copper any more.

Slag steel. Maybe. But I’m expecting plastic coins soon...


33 posted on 07/21/2010 9:19:03 AM PDT by piytar (The Tea Party Express is about to roll over the useless National "Tea Party" Federation...)
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To: piytar

OK, I’ll buy some more poker chips then....LOL


34 posted on 07/21/2010 9:19:59 AM PDT by OneVike (A Freeper in Christ since February of 1998)
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To: ctdonath2
If you have proof of the price you paid for the gold, you only have to pay tax on the gain in the value. In your case $0.
35 posted on 07/21/2010 9:20:21 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Gun control was originally to protect Klansmen from their victims. The basic reason hasn't changed.)
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To: DrC
If your pee’s worth more than $600

Mine is pure Chanel No. 5

36 posted on 07/21/2010 9:21:29 AM PDT by Glenn (iamtheresistance.org)
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To: donmeaker

Those who have the normal ups and downs of life buy both.


37 posted on 07/21/2010 9:25:35 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: donmeaker

Good one.


38 posted on 07/21/2010 9:28:11 AM PDT by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck.)
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To: donmeaker

“Optimists buy gold. Pessimists buy brass and lead.”

Hence I am correctly named. :)


39 posted on 07/21/2010 9:29:21 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: DFG
The productive members of society need to stop producing as quickly as possible. The quicker this happens the quicker we get our country back.

The longer it takes, the more we are at risk of never being able to recover our country or possibly even civil existence.

Everyone concerned can start by making preparations to become self-reliant, DIY, and support local markets and independent Internet businesses.

We're not dependent on the big government or big corporations. Their existence depends upon us. That dependency has grown to a significant and unsustainable portion of our life's work.

Cloward-Piven works both ways and in the end, anyone dependent upon the government will be at a disadvantage. It's our best strategy IMO.

40 posted on 07/21/2010 9:41:28 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant

Agreed, see tagline.


41 posted on 07/21/2010 9:54:32 AM PDT by SaxxonWoods (Gone Galt and loving it)
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To: DFG
The consequences of the 1099-K law, if it ever goes into effect, have ramifications FAR beyond the coin business.

99+% of the harm will be done to small businesses that have never heard of coins.

42 posted on 07/21/2010 9:58:19 AM PDT by Jim Noble (If the answer is "Republican", it must be a stupid question.)
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To: SaxxonWoods
Same here! Going Galt or leaving the Matrix took me about 6 months to break the lifelong indoctrination to be a obident little tax paying engine. I actually felt guilty.

Never again will I fall for their propaganda or allow them to take even one second of my remaining time on earth without a fight.

Life and freedom to live it your way is too precious, too short and too wonderful to die a slave.

43 posted on 07/21/2010 10:07:27 AM PDT by Errant
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To: DFG

Couldn’t this make silver more popular as a backlash?


44 posted on 07/21/2010 10:25:13 AM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: KarlInOhio

So...guilty until proven innocent?


45 posted on 07/21/2010 10:28:20 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (+)
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To: ctdonath2
So...guilty until proven innocent?

I think that's carved above the door to the IRS, right below "Abandon all hope ye who enter here".

46 posted on 07/21/2010 10:34:09 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Gun control was originally to protect Klansmen from their victims. The basic reason hasn't changed.)
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To: KarlInOhio

Re last post...

Seriously, if I hold a garage sale and sell $700 in stuff, I have to file the 1099s form and pay confiscatory taxes unless I can produce receipts for the stuff showing I had a loss? Like I’m going to have receipts for books, camping gear, dishes, etc. I’ve had for a couple decades?

They’re drawing a line in the sand where I cannot avoid stepping over it, but somehow it will be my fault...


47 posted on 07/21/2010 10:34:47 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (+)
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To: ctdonath2
1099s are produced by the buyer. Thus is some company saw your garage sale and bought $600 or more from you, they would have to send you a 1099 under the new rules. You don't have to produce one on what you sell.

I don't know what the exact rules are on garage sales, but if you are making a profit (such as making artsy-craftsy stuff and selling it from more than the cost of goods) then you are supposed to report and pay taxes on the profit. If you are selling off old junk for a loss (like most garage sales) then you don't have to report the income. Sorry, I can't quote the exact tax form and if you get arrested for using my advice, please tell me so I can send you a file in a cake.

48 posted on 07/21/2010 10:49:49 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Gun control was originally to protect Klansmen from their victims. The basic reason hasn't changed.)
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To: Errant

Way to go! Not all of us have the ability to do this. I am self-employed, my wife had a reg job. When I saw that Obama was doing what we all feared, I had her retire and I went into semi-retirement. We have cut our taxable income by around 70%. We will not pay much in fed taxes going forward. We were already headed this way, but moved everything forward a few years. Best decision evah.

Sold the city house, moved to the country. The libs can pay for Obama’s utopia.


49 posted on 07/21/2010 11:33:35 AM PDT by SaxxonWoods (Gone Galt and loving it)
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To: drpix
This is only Act-1. It is meant to track the Gold to better implement Act-2 which be either the FDR move - confiscation - or the European one - a “wealth tax.”

Wealth tax?

Where in the Constitution is it written that the Feds can tax the same earnings an indefinite number of times?

Far as I can tell, folks can ony buy gold with after tax money."

For the record, I don't own gold.

50 posted on 07/21/2010 12:01:31 PM PDT by Publius6961 ("We don't want to hear words; we want action and results.")
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