Posted on 05/07/2010 6:30:04 PM PDT by USALiberty
“If the majority of people want to live under a theocracy so be it,...”
You can’t possibly be so ignorant. The Founding Fathers, most of them devout Christians set up a system of Federalism, separation of powers, and limited government to protect liberty. Under this system, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are among certain unalienable rights that are endowed by our Creator.”
This tradition, this founding, this idea of limited government of the people for the people by the people is based on a Christian heritage. You want to call the desire to return to our foundations a “theocracy”? How ignorant and foolish.
That was in response to the OP that claims that your nation was built on “BIBLICAL LAW”... which it wasn’t, it was built on your constitution. Furthermore, the op states that “God’s own “judicial decisions” never get cited anymore” in judicial law. If you want your judicial system to interpret the bible as legal prwecedent, which is exactly how islamic states interpret the quran, they you have yourself a THEOCRACY.... Essentially what the taliban want, except they wan to base theirs on a different book.
You want to get back to what your founding fathers wanted your country to be? then put your bible down and pick up your CONSTITUTION instead.
The fact that the government was set up as a Constitutional Republic meant that although the nation was a Christian nation, all religions would be protected.
Mark
“but what about atheists like me who once were believers but have rejected the veracity of biblical claims?
What is it about, “never leave nor forsake you” do you not understand?”
Well, if the OP’s wish came true and someone like Flycatcher was in charge of biblical law enforcement then I’d be put to death for apostasy.... I’m sure you can understand why that would leave me feeling a little forsaken, not unlike the countless thousands that suffered the same fate during the inquisition.
They forgot their passion for our nation.
They forgot it is not about the deal but about the integrity of staying with the constitution at all times. They forgot to put country above their party.
And they forgot to put their party above the desire to get the vile press to 'love them' and get their snotty, stupid faces on the boob tube.
I do read the Constitution. I buy copies of them in bulk, I pass them out daily to people I meet everywhere and encourage them to read it too. Do not lecture me about reading the Constitution.
I still do not see ANY example ANYWHERE of ANYONE wanting to do away with our Representative Republic and install a theocracy. Your moonbat nutty views such as "will we be put to death as many understand the bible to demand of apostates?" (your nonsense in post #8)and claiming that people here want to give up liberty for a theocracy, is complete trash. This nation was built on christian values to ensure liberty from an oppressive government. You dare compare that to the oppressive theocratic tyranny of the Taliban? What is wrong with you?
Bullcrap. Tell me, where in the Bible you get something like the bill of rights? Tell me, where in the Bible we're commanded that our government shall have no religious test for holding office? Tell me, where in the Bible is there any notion of individual rights? You wont find much, because the books of the Bible were meant to instruct tribal peoples. In such groups the individual is made subordinate to the tribe.
Now I certainly won't say the founders weren't religious. They certainly were. And I believe our nation is better for that. But it's a huge stretch to say the nation was founded on the Bible.
Yes.
And you deserve it for being so stupid.
But have a nice day!
Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."
Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)"
You should ping me when you claim I will put you to death.
It's just common courtesy pre-execution.
“You should ping me when you claim I will put you to death.
It’s just common courtesy pre-execution.”
Yes, I should have pinged you on that post. My apologies.
I'll commute your sentence. lol
“I still do not see ANY example ANYWHERE of ANYONE wanting to do away with our Representative Republic and install a theocracy.”
The very first post suggests that the bible be used as judicial precedence, you don’t see that as a one of the cornerstones of a theocracy?
“Your moonbat nutty views such as “will we be put to death as many understand the bible to demand of apostates?” (your nonsense in post #8)and claiming that people here want to give up liberty for a theocracy, is complete trash.”
That was not a view, it was a question, which one poster here responded in the affirmative... do you agree with the poster? is the death penalty for apostasy what you would expect to happen under the constitution or under a theocracy?
“This nation was built on christian values to ensure liberty from an oppressive government. You dare compare that to the oppressive theocratic tyranny of the Taliban? What is wrong with you?”
I thought it was built on the constitution wherein church and state are deliberately separated specifically to guarantee freedom of religion, including the freedom to chose the atheist position without fear of persecution. The problem is that such a foundation contradicts what the bible teaches. All that is ‘wrong’ with me is that I will take a secular state based on your constitution rather than a thelogical one based on your bible any day.
By the way... thank you for your honest replies to my posts. I don’t agree with some of your views but I appreciate your effort in sharing them with me.
“No worries, Mate!
I’ll commute your sentence. lol”
LOL... thank you, your honor. :-D
God has a plan for the entire human race. But, through misguided exercising of our free will, we often ignore that plan. America has done so repeatedly. Many once-Christian nations have forfeited their heritage. This country is doing the same. God is not interested in nations, but in the fate of souls. If America wants God to smile on her, America must get right with God. Otherwise this nation will fall.
Forsaken by man, yes. So this is a case of willful ignorance? You give up your faith in God because of malicious man? Do you realize there's EVIL in this world not because God condones it, but man's inherit selfishness?
Do you also question the "veracity" of free will?
I really love it how atheist tout logic and reason, but are so readily and easily duped by an illogical lie.
My prayer is that God stop the slaughter and extend His mercy for yet a little while, gathering more to Himself during this time before all hell breaks loose on the whole earth.
I think America represents a kind of floodgate of the world, holding back God's judgment in a sense. I think when America goes, the world will quickly go, plunging into what can only be what Jesus described in Matthew 24 (and the book of Revelation as well as many other parts of the Bible), right after Jesus comes and takes his own like a thief in the night.
bump read later
Is that what you call America for the last two-to-three-hundred years? Better go back to our founding documents (Constitution, etc.) and discern the difference between a state church and Christians running the show giving people the freedom to believe as they wish. THAT's a true Christian nation my friend.
A true Christian nation respects God-given freedoms of the individual (evidenced in the history of America) whereas an atheist government ends in tyranny and death for its people (evidenced by Communist governments executing over 50 million deaths on its own people).
will we be put to death as many understand the bible to demand of apostates
The new covenant of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ has replaced the first covenant making it old, decayed, and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13) We are living now in that grace spiritually (Romans 6:14) which can also be seen politically in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution all of which of course forbids such behavior.
what about atheists like me
What turned you away from the Lord?
That would be the Law of Grace tightly woven into the Constitituion.
“Is that what you call America for the last two-to-three-hundred years?”
NO..... You have attributed to me the exact opposite of what I said. Please re-read my earlier posts.
“A true Christian nation respects God-given freedoms of the individual (evidenced in the history of America)”
That’s fantastic if you’re a christian, I suppose. But as we all know America is a secular nation, not a christian nation. Evidenced by the fact that the power of the government is granted by the people through the constitution, and the bible plays no role in governance or legislature.
“whereas an atheist government ends in tyranny and death for its people (evidenced by Communist governments executing over 50 million deaths on its own people).”
Oh for crying out loud. What on your god’s green earth does the atheist position on questions of religious faith have anything to do with ANY system of government?... NOTHING.
“The new covenant of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ has replaced the first covenant making it old, decayed, and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13) We are living now in that grace spiritually (Romans 6:14) which can also be seen politically in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution all of which of course forbids such behavior.”
That’s great... you may want to let some of your fellow believers in on that. Just read back through this thread and it’ll become quite clear which ones want to bring that old testament bloodlust down on apostates like me.
“What turned you away from the Lord?”
The application of critical thinking skills, and the expectation that claims be backed up by independently verifiable evidence.
I’m sure you can understand why that would leave me feeling a little forsaken, not unlike the countless thousands that suffered the same fate during the inquisition.
“Forsaken by man, yes.”
The countless tortured and murdered in horrific ways suffered at the hands of men claiming to have the authority of god.
“So this is a case of willful ignorance? You give up your faith in God because of malicious man?”
Nope, couldn’t be more wrong. I am a deeply loved member of a very conservative and devout christian family, i went to a fantastic catholic private school from which I still have christian friends 30 years. If you want to know why I gave up my faith just ask.
“Do you realize there’s EVIL in this world not because God condones it, but man’s inherit selfishness?”
Of course I know of the evil in the world, for which god (let’s assume that he actually exists for a moment) must be totally accountable. If god is truly omnipotent, all knowing, all powerful, outside of time, and the creator of everything then he is the creator of all the goo in the universe, the creator of heaven, the creator of the angels... but also the creator of all that is evil, the creator of the devil, and the creator of all evil acts perpetrated by all evil people. If he is not then he is not the creator of *everything*..... I’d love to talk to you some more about this but we’ll get way off the thread topic.
“Do you also question the “veracity” of free will?”
As an atheist, I don’t.
“I really love it how atheist tout logic and reason, but are so readily and easily duped by an illogical lie.”
I have told no lies. I associate with my FRiends here on the understanding that we respect each other’s freedom to chose what we believe (or not believe) even if we disagree. You can be sure that this is as honest as it gets.
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