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Breaking - jurors reported they have reached a verdict on 3 of 4 charges in Palin hacking trial
knoxville news ^ | April 29, 2010 | Jim Balloch

Posted on 04/29/2010 12:07:13 PM PDT by Bigtigermike

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To: AnAmericanMother
Like I said, I wish justice were simple. As long as there are crooks and strongmen — in AND out of government — it won’t be.

But see, that's just what we've been trying to tell you that juries can and should do - STAND UP to crooks and strongmen in the courts and legislature, by slapping a big red VETO on unjust prosecutions and unjust laws.

241 posted on 05/07/2010 1:22:41 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel
It's not plausible, or cost-effective. While you may get lucky once in awhile, the numbers are overwhelmingly against it.

It's like this: when jury panels are summoned for trial week, there are about 200 jurors summoned for each trial, depending on the track record in that particular county.

You've got some no-shows, you've got some who're disqualified by age, disability, or felony conviction. They'll send 48 down to the courtroom for your average civil trial, 72 for a criminal trial. More if it's a high-profile case. If they don't get twelve, they'll call for a supplemental panel. (If your county has "one day/one trial" the numbers change, but that's usually only in very large urban counties where they have high numbers of no-shows and disqualified veniremen).

Only 12 will be selected to hear the case. The chance that somebody with strong principles and sufficient gumption to be a holdout will happen to be selected for a case that involves an obviously unjust law is small.

Your energy is far better spent (1) electing good judges who will hear a constitutional challenge at the proper time; (2) electing good and honest DAs who won't prosecute junk cases; (3) electing good legislators who won't pass unjust laws in the first place.

THAT is where educating people will have the best effect, because educating the general public about a theoretical proposition that cannot be supported by either a jury charge or anything but the most subtle of arguments -- on the off chance that they will be summoned, and then be one of the minuscule number who actually wind up serving on a case involving an unjust law -- is not as cost-effective as educating the vast majority of people who all have a vote on election day.

You would also better spend your time and money donating to or working for groups that campaign for better laws. Since RKBA seems to be your favorite cause, donate to your local gun rights group. GeorgiaCarry.org here has done a tremendous job at the legislative level to clear up ambiguities in the law, and they have also funded numerous challenge cases in the courts, with some success. They get the most bang for their buck of any outfit I know. Their president is a first class lawyer and a man of honor whom I am proud to know.

242 posted on 05/07/2010 2:45:33 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)T)
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To: AnAmericanMother
It's not plausible, or cost-effective.

It's certainly cost-effective for the defendant in the case if a principled juror saves him from years in prison. What does "cost" have to do with it anyway?

Your energy is far better spent (1) electing good judges who will hear a constitutional challenge at the proper time; (2) electing good and honest DAs who won't prosecute junk cases; (3) electing good legislators who won't pass unjust laws in the first place.

What good does a Constitutional challenge do for someone who's being threatened with 15 years in prison if he doesn't knuckle under to the prosecution's demands? What good does an election do for the victim of a junk case charging an unjust law?

Educating jurors about their rightful powers to do justice doesn't take place in a vacuum, or to the exclusion of these other efforts, in any case. I'm on the Board of Directors of my local gun rights group, as it happens.

And as you could see in those two cases I posted, a jury doing justice in spite of the law is not a "theoretical proposition" by any stretch of the imagination.

243 posted on 05/11/2010 3:25:42 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel
You know perfectly well that by "cost" I mean effort and diligence, not just money.

Again, the chances of a holdout juror riding in at the last minute to save a defendant purely on the theory of "jury nullification" is far fetched.

The jury is far more likely to find that the State hasn't proved its case, if the defense lawyer will just give them ONE factual basis for a reasonable doubt -- as well as present the overarching theme of his client as a good man who is being persecuted by an overzealous prosecutor.

You've about ridden your hobbyhorse to death. You can't focus on one arcane theory to the exclusion of legislative work, constitutional challenges, and good defense lawyering. The chances of succeeding through the latter three are far greater, and your victim of prosecutorial persecution had better put his trust in a good lawyer who files a constitutional challenge for him, rather than the vanishingly small chance of getting a holdout juror.

Some sort of public education/information program on jury nullification isn't going to do the guy in the hot seat right now any more good than legislative efforts or constitutional challenges. But legislative and courtroom work will keep more folks from being put in the hot seat in the first place.

244 posted on 05/11/2010 7:24:16 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)T)
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