Posted on 02/23/2010 5:58:17 AM PST by Ravnagora
“All this under the aegis of the Nazi Pope at the Vatican!”
I urge you to look to your soul. One day you will answer to God for such lies.
“Martyr yourself”
You say to another man, “martyr yourself?”
Words fail.
Love that moonbat graphic. Did you do that?
“How many holocausts, where 10’s of millions of people were systematically exterminated, have we had in the last 1000 years?”
Zow, tens of millions? Good question, how many have there been?
Yes more than the 6 million Jews killed. Do a little research.
Hit a nerve, no? So you are the Grand Wazoo Croatian Truth Master? Got any info that the Vatican/Pope did not collaborate with the Croatian Ustashe? All I see in your postings are Flame Attacks and hypocrisy like your posting on Cromwell: “Yes dear Lord let’s not criticize a man that was responsible for the deaths of approximately 1,000,000 people. We might hurt someone’s feelings.”
There’s a mountain of history on the Balkins, Nazis, Catholic & Orthodox Churches and it appears to point to a lot of support by the Vatican of the Croats during WW2.
Can you refute the statement below? Or will you try to start a flame war?
‘NAZIS Clerical Fascism: Patron Saint of Genocide: Archbishop Stepinac. In April 1941, Ante Pavelic headed a new Croat “Ustashe” regime in alliance with Nazi Germany, dedicated to the conversion to Catholicism or extermination of the Serbs and Jews of Croatia..... as the killing began, a pastoral letter from Archbishop Stepinac called on all Catholics to support the Croat leader. Stepinac remained the head of the Catholic Church in Croatia during the genocide....
I’m not the Pope who is the spiritual leader of your church. What is his duty to his followers. Remember this was not just an act against Jews, but many, many Catholics and other Christians.
I’m not saying volunteer yourself to be put to death, but taking a stand that would have endangered your life?
If not for a cause such as this then what for? Put a little skin in the game.
“If any of them had happened, then the perpetrators would have been in the wrong. However, an entity does not share in the blame for deeds committed in its name when those acts are done without its knowledge or consent, and most especially when such deeds are contrary to the wishes of that entity.”
The argument is the Pope Pius XII saved so many Jews, there fore he was a good man.
That very argument admits he knew what was going on. Therefore he must share in some of the guilt. Inaction in the face of a crime is not a defense.
As a final reply, if Pope John Paul had been Pope at that time, I think there would have been a different view on how the Catholic church reacted throughout WWII.
“Yes more than the 6 million Jews killed. Do a little research.”
No matter how much research I do, I just can’t make 6 million equal tens of millions.
What sort of research do you conduct that yields such a result?
“What is his duty to his followers.”
Catholics are not “followers” of the Pope. We are followers of Our Lord and God Jesus Christ.
We have seen tens of millions of people here (I guess if you can make 6 million equal tens of millions, I can do the same with dozens and dozens and dozens and...) who criticize the One True Church with an inexhaustable supply of confidence and a great sounding of trumpets and cymbals.
Problem is, they don’t criticize the Church for its doctrine; they criticize the Church for ridiculous misrepresentations, and refuse to be informed of the truth.
Who could be behind that but the father of lies?
“Put a little skin in the game.”
After you, Alphonse.
“The argument is the Pope Pius XII saved so many Jews, there fore he was a good man.”
No, that’s not the argument.
If you are going to refute a person’s argument, you must refute the argument he actually advances, not some limping, spavined distortion of it.
The argument is that the facts, the known, documented, historical facts, demonstrate that calumny such as is under discussion here has not the slightest shred of truth to it. That the Holy Father helped the Jews, to the extent that those Jews actually present and involved praised him highly, is just one of those facts.
If Old Scratch will allow it, you really should treat yourself to some accurate history. You can find a bit here:
and in Rabbi David Dalin’s 2005 book, “The Myth of Hitler’s Pope.”
“That very argument admits he knew what was going on. Therefore he must share in some of the guilt.”
That is not logical to even the tiniest degree.
Apropos of nothing whatsoever, most humans seem to believe themselves proficient thinkers...that is, skilled at the application of reason to evidence such that a correct conclusion is reached.
I would estimate that perhaps one in a hundred thousand of them is correct in that belief.
“Inaction in the face of a crime is not a defense.”
And the creation of a malicious myth—such as the fictitious inaction in which you believe—is a gravely evil deed.
“As a final reply, if Pope John Paul had been Pope at that time, I think there would have been a different view on how the Catholic church reacted throughout WWII.”
If I had your omniscience, I could rule the world.
Imagine, to be able to discern such a thing on the basis of absolutely no information at all. Willialal, you astound me.
"Julia Gorin is a failed leftist comic. Her family are Russian communists. Anything that she writes should be understood as an attack against the Catholic church. She's a crypto-communist masquerading as a conservative. Sort of like Frumm, Medved, or Horowitz."
You are so very wrong "grand wazoo". If you read her writings regarding the Balkans (particularly the former Yugoslavia), ALL of which are excellent, without letting your preconceptions color your interpretations, you would discover that your judgment is not accurate.
No "crypto-communist" would write the way she does about General Draza Mihailovich and the Chetniks.
Gorin is not only an excellent writer, a journalist in the true sense of the word with integrity intact, she is braver than most. She doesn't worry about political correctness, and that's why she can be trusted to write the truth.
*****
I believe that I openly stated such.
So now I have to refute every statement that this hag puts out?
Suffice it to say that there are ancient hatreds on both sides. Prior to the Ustasa there were Chetniks.
How is she masquerading as a conservative? Have you read any of her other articles or are you simply making a judgment call based on this one article?
Or do you just hate Jews?
Bush also recognized Kosovo which is a criminally run state, so what’s your point?
Ditto.
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