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Decorated Veteran, 90, Fights to Raise Flag in His Yard
Fox News ^ | Thursday, December 03, 2009 | The Associated Press contributed to this report

Posted on 12/03/2009 11:17:07 AM PST by Mrs. Frogjerk

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To: BenKenobi

That would be like asking, is it legal to subdivide property and sell it to people insisting that the constitution has no legal force over your property.


Not at all. You can’t prevent display of the flag, only the manner.

And what’s wrong with Americans agreeing to live together in small communities by their selected rules, without trying to governmentally impose those rules on outsiders?


61 posted on 12/03/2009 1:32:26 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("Personal freedom begins when you tell Old Mrs. Grundy to go to Hell." -Lazarus Long)
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To: Beelzebubba
"I’d love to see photos of the yards and neighborhoods of the Freepers who swear they’d never live under CC&Rs. "

Let's see, how did you start...with "UH"...a condescending little sound to imply your smug attitude at something - in your opinion - that I should have known. I know that sound, I raised three teenagers and they use it too.

I live on three.five acres, over 300 feet from the main road, with over 200 hardwoods...I don't bother anyone, and my yards are just fine. My house is a log home, and it's not purple.

So, you can go study your covenents or whatever it is that you do, but I'm just fine here...and I have a flagpole and I fly the flag daily without asking you, or obama, or anyone if I can. Duhhhhh.
62 posted on 12/03/2009 1:40:05 PM PST by FrankR (SENATE: You cram it down our throats in '09, We'll shove it up your ass in '10...count on it.)
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To: Beelzebubba

“And what’s wrong with Americans agreeing to live together in small communities by their selected rules, without trying to governmentally impose those rules on outsiders?”

Plenty of things. What if part of the agreement is a requirement to abide by Sharia?


63 posted on 12/03/2009 1:43:53 PM PST by BenKenobi
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To: Beelzebubba
Look, they won't even talk to the guy about it.

He isn't asking for anything that is unreasonable. They should at least consider it. If they want to allow the other neighbors(most support him) to have some input on it before they make their decision fine.

He isn't asking if he can install a 20 ft porcelain duck in his front yard, it's a flag pole.

In my heart, and apparently you don't agree, I think that in certain situations, you should take certain things(bravery and sacrifice) into consideration and break the damn rule once in awhile.

64 posted on 12/03/2009 1:45:28 PM PST by Mrs. Frogjerk
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To: BenKenobi

“And what’s wrong with Americans agreeing to live together in small communities by their selected rules, without trying to governmentally impose those rules on outsiders?”

Plenty of things. What if part of the agreement is a requirement to abide by Sharia?


If it violated the Constitution or state or federal law (like racist restrictions) then it would not be legal or enforceable. We’re talking about restrictions that are lawful.


65 posted on 12/03/2009 1:46:41 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("Personal freedom begins when you tell Old Mrs. Grundy to go to Hell." -Lazarus Long)
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To: Mrs. Frogjerk

In my heart, and apparently you don’t agree, I think that in certain situations, you should take certain things(bravery and sacrifice) into consideration and break the damn rule once in awhile.


This is about the covenant he voluntarily made with his neighbors. We don’t waive those for patriots, veterans, priests, or people who donate to charity. The neighbors have a right to have the rules enforced fairly to all. If you prefer otherwise, buy in a community that waives certain rules for certain people.

Or the neighbors can all vote to change the rules, so the Board can enforce the rules they prefer.

I swear, some people here are being ruled by emotion, like a bunch of Democrats.


66 posted on 12/03/2009 1:50:59 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("Personal freedom begins when you tell Old Mrs. Grundy to go to Hell." -Lazarus Long)
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To: Beelzebubba

One other point.

He said that he will ultimately abide by the rule if he has to. He is not saying that he is above it. He merely wants to at least discuss it with them but they have no interest in what he has to say.

That is cruel. Especially considering his past service.

That’s the main point of the article.


67 posted on 12/03/2009 1:52:54 PM PST by Mrs. Frogjerk
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To: Beelzebubba
There is no specific rule stated in the guidelines for the community that bars putting up flag poles. After he had asked permission to put it up, he was told that it violates the neighborhood's aesthetic guidelines.

That rule sounds vague and you should at least be able to challenge it if they try to enforce it.

There was no way for him to know that it would violate the rules of the community.

After reading this article, there is no way in hell that I would live in one of these communities. These places are as close as your going to get to a Marxist state actually existing in this country.

I could be wrong though. Who knows what this country will look like after Obama gets through with it.

68 posted on 12/03/2009 2:06:09 PM PST by Mrs. Frogjerk
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To: Beelzebubba

So the question then is whether they can lawfully restrict the display of the flag. I don’t see anything in the constitution that says it’s ok to display the flag in your window, but not ok to fly it off a 21 foot flagpole.


69 posted on 12/03/2009 2:06:13 PM PST by BenKenobi
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To: BenKenobi

>>So the question then is whether they can lawfully restrict the display of the flag.

There’s no law to prohibit a private property owner from restricting the MANNER of display of the flag on his own property.

>> I don’t see anything in the constitution that says it’s ok to display the flag in your window, but not ok to fly it off a 21 foot flagpole.

Why would you expect this to be in the Constitution, and what point are you trying to make?


70 posted on 12/03/2009 2:55:19 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("Personal freedom begins when you tell Old Mrs. Grundy to go to Hell." -Lazarus Long)
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To: Mrs. Frogjerk

There was no way for him to know that it would violate the rules of the community.


I guess that applying to the board for permission and being denied should have been a clue.


71 posted on 12/03/2009 2:56:07 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("Personal freedom begins when you tell Old Mrs. Grundy to go to Hell." -Lazarus Long)
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To: Beelzebubba
It’s fascist for you and your neighbors to agree not to leave junked appliances on the lawn?

Ask Mrs. Kelo.

72 posted on 12/03/2009 3:08:33 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

Kelo?

That has nothing to do with this.


73 posted on 12/03/2009 3:11:36 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("Personal freedom begins when you tell Old Mrs. Grundy to go to Hell." -Lazarus Long)
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To: Cicero
You got the wrong guy. My neighbor down the hill has a small engine repair business with lots of lawn tractors in his backyard which abuts my 5 acres. I could not care less. He's making a living, people are getting their tractors fixed and my eyes, believ it or not are not affronted when I look down the hill at all those tractors.

A personal shortcoming I'm sure.

74 posted on 12/03/2009 3:12:53 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Beelzebubba
Kelo is aout rights and having rights taken away by majority votes of your neighbors.

Right up your alley.

75 posted on 12/03/2009 3:13:57 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

Yeah. We have a kind of triangular island between the back lawn and the pasture where the frog pond drains into a stream.

I had thought of eventually building a fake Japanese bridge across the stream, but one of my sons got in there first with his chicken and duck coops. All home made from milled lumber from our cedar trees and roofed with roofing scraps left over from doing the barns. So we just bridged it with a couple of logs and some leftover pallets.

Anyway, it’s a more socially acceptable scene than my daughter’s pigs and goats a couple of miles down the road.


76 posted on 12/03/2009 3:25:44 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

If a HOA can decree this an eyesore or whatever in the name of uniformity or protecting property values there’s also a flip side.

Their actions in this case have grossly devalued property values far more than a flag pole ever could.

What’s going to happen to resale values or selling out unsold units in a community like this if prospective buyers are under the impression that the HOA is a bunch of busy body Stasi wannabe’s? This puts the entire community in a negative light and even if it dissuades 10-15% of potential buyers from making bids or not looking at the community as an option you’ve devalued properties far faster than any market trend.


77 posted on 12/03/2009 3:41:53 PM PST by PittsburghAfterDark
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To: jwalsh07

Kelo is aout rights and having rights taken away by majority votes of your neighbors.


And Homeowners Associations about about the totally voluntary choice of whether to buy where there are restrictions, or not.

Buying an expecting the rules not to apply to you sounds like a Democrat.


78 posted on 12/03/2009 4:14:34 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("Personal freedom begins when you tell Old Mrs. Grundy to go to Hell." -Lazarus Long)
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To: Beelzebubba
I am referring to when he bought the house. He was probably assuming that he wouldn't have a problem getting approval for the pole.

When you buy these places, people may not realize that it is as strict as it is. Now he knows unfortunately.

Now getting back to this case. They have made this particular rule ambiguous. They are going to have to explain why this flag pole is not pleasing to the eye. Unless they said explicitly that there are no flag poles allowed they may have a problem. They shouldn't be allowed to make these ambiguous rules and just think that they can lord over people like they are the damned monarchy.

79 posted on 12/03/2009 4:34:12 PM PST by Mrs. Frogjerk
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To: Beelzebubba
And Homeowners Associations about about the totally voluntary choice of whether to buy where there are restrictions, or not.

There were no restrictions against flag poles. The fascista's simply made it up when they decided a flag pole offended their sense of aesthetics. Which is exactly what happens when you move into one of these little fiefdoms.

80 posted on 12/03/2009 5:38:39 PM PST by jwalsh07
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