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Doctor Shortage
The Hill ^ | Nov. 17, 2009 | Dick Morris

Posted on 11/19/2009 6:34:01 PM PST by Dajjal

Doctor Shortage
by Dick Morris

Joseph Stubbs, president of the American College of Physicians — the second-largest doctors’ group in the country — confirms that “the supply of doctors just won’t be there” for the 30 million new patients President Barack Obama wants to cover. Noting that the doctor shortage is “already a catastrophic crisis,” Stubbs noted that underserved areas in the U.S. currently need almost 17,000 new primary care physicians even before Obama’s proposals are enacted.

In the meantime, according to Bloomberg News, a 2009 survey by Merritt Hawkins & Associates, a recruiting and research firm in Irving, Texas, found that “the average waiting time to see a family-medicine doctor in Boston … is 63 days, the most among the 15 cities” surveyed. By comparison, in Miami, it was only seven days. The study noted that Boston’s longer wait was “driven in part by the healthcare reform initiative” passed in 2006 in Massachusetts, upon which the Obama program is modeled. Bloomberg reported that “as many as half of doctors in the state have closed their practices to new patients, forcing many of the newly insured to turn to emergency rooms for care.”

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: deathpanels; dennisprager; dickmorris; healthcare; morris; obama; obamacare; prager; talkradio
I heard about this on the Dennis Prager show today.

He said another problem is that US medical schools are creating too many women doctors. He said that the problem with women doctors is that they "hit the ROAD" -- specializing in radiology, ophthalmology, anesthesia and dermatology so that they can have peaceful home lives with no midnight emergency calls.

See also:

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20091113/Doctors-face-image-problems3b-patients-deal-with-shortages-are-urged-to-question-care.aspx

1 posted on 11/19/2009 6:34:02 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Pyro7480; narses; NYer; Salvation; AdmSmith; Aquinasfan; Siobhan; Maeve; XR7; SJackson; ...

Obamacare ping


2 posted on 11/19/2009 6:37:29 PM PST by Dajjal (Obama is an Ericksonian NLP hypnotist.)
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To: Dajjal

Harvard has proved that it’s a lot easier to get a law degree with only average IQ than it is to get a medical degree (requiring a much higher IQ).

Oh, forgot, the Kenyan Klod was special.


3 posted on 11/19/2009 6:39:37 PM PST by Da Coyote
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To: Dajjal
All I can say is people better start taking care of their own health (preventative health) because folks are about to be on their own.

I foresee the life expectancy to stagnate or actually decrease in the near future.
4 posted on 11/19/2009 6:40:12 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: Dajjal

No problem. Lots of Pakistani and Indian doctors will come and work for much less. Get used to Dr. Iqbal and Dr. Raja.


5 posted on 11/19/2009 6:40:26 PM PST by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG 49) "Freedom's Fortress")
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To: Dajjal

Thanks, an obamacare list makes sense. But no, he doesn’t care, at least about care. Control of care, that’s another thing entirely.


6 posted on 11/19/2009 6:41:11 PM PST by SJackson (In wine there is wisdom, In beer there is freedom, In water there is bacteria.)
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To: Dajjal

Yes, there will be a doctor shortage because many of them who are over 50 y.o. will retire before they allow non-physicians to make decisions about what tests they can do and what care they can provide.

However, those 30 million supposedly new individuals who don’t have insurance are already getting health care. It’s not like there are 30 million new folks who will drop out of the sky. Go to any emergency room, go to any clinic, you’ll find them there. Ask any doc what percentage of his patients pay nothing.


7 posted on 11/19/2009 6:42:54 PM PST by ladyjane
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To: randomhero97
"people better start taking care of their own health"

I certainly take care of my health. I begin every day with a plateful of fried eggs and bacon, and end it with a midnight snack of chocolate cake.

That way I'm sure to be dead and buried before the commies takeover ... or the machines become intelligent.

8 posted on 11/19/2009 6:45:22 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear (These fragments I have shored against my ruins)
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To: Da Coyote

Yea, but we have an over abundance of Lawyers. I guess this will balance out in some karmic way.


9 posted on 11/19/2009 6:47:14 PM PST by doc1019 (Obama, not so much.)
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To: Dajjal

The supply can partially be rectified by allowing RNs and specialists perform many routine and moderate procedures.


10 posted on 11/19/2009 6:48:22 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: Dajjal
I wonder about how bad the shortage will be. I understand doctors possibly leaving the field, but people are being treated now under our current system and they aren’t finding a severe shortage. This part about 30-45 million new patients showing up that aren't already reflected in the current system seems suspect to me. These people have been using our medical system all along one way or another.
11 posted on 11/19/2009 6:50:12 PM PST by 1776 Reborn (Test kids and politicians (bigger idiots) on the Constitution!)
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To: SJackson; All
Here is another topic which I have never heard any of the conservative pundits mention:

After the "Public Option" forces insurance companies out of business and forces everyone into the Government Plan, billions (trillions?) of dollars will be pulled out of the Stock Market and other investments (which is where the private insurance companies place their reserves).

This will have a devastating effect on the economy.

But I don't hear any conservative economists mentioning it. (sigh)

Kudos to my brother for pointing this out to me.

12 posted on 11/19/2009 6:51:07 PM PST by Dajjal (Obama is an Ericksonian NLP hypnotist.)
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To: neodad
No problem. Lots of Pakistani and Indian doctors will come and work for much less. Get used to Dr. Iqbal and Dr. Raja.

Nope. Unless Dr. Iqbal and Dr. Raja are the cream of the cream, they won't get licensed here in the US.

There has been a ceiling on the number of residency training positions in the US for years now, so there aren't enough residency training slots available. Then there are the licensing exams.

13 posted on 11/19/2009 6:51:32 PM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: Dajjal
US medical schools are creating too many women doctors

This is absolutely true. Over half of med school admissions are now female. A classmate of my daughter's, while still in med school, was already setting her sights on a position that would not require weekends, nights or being on-call.

My OB-Gyn is a female, and 3 of the past 7 years I have had to see a strange doctor because she's been away on extended maternity leaves of up to 4 months. Our next door neighbor, a female family practice doc, just left a busy office to join the staff of a university student health clinic where the hours are M-F 9-5.

This situation is bound to worsen, and the femi-nazi's aren't gonna like the fall-out.

14 posted on 11/19/2009 6:54:45 PM PST by PLK
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Re: “I certainly take care of my health. I begin every day with a plateful of fried eggs and bacon, and end it with a midnight snack of chocolate cake.

That way I’m sure to be dead and buried before the commies takeover ... or the machines become intelligent.”

******************

With a sense of humor like yours, you will probably live a very long time!!!!!


15 posted on 11/19/2009 7:00:03 PM PST by CaliforniaCon
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To: Dajjal

And I have also heard that under this plan, all doctors get the same pay.

All of them.

So a neurosurgeon, who is on call for trauma and has to take part in highly risky surgeries is paid the same as a dermatologist?

Nothing against dermatologists, but this is the tip of an iceberg.


16 posted on 11/19/2009 7:02:00 PM PST by rlmorel (Obama, The Flatulence of One Thousand Black Dogs After Eating Boiled Eggs Be Upon Him...)
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To: Dajjal

I’m not a big fan of Dick Morris, but he’s been right on the mark on this issue. It’s a doctor shortage, not an insurance problem that we are facing. I’ve been saying that for more than 10 years, and finally you are beginning to see the commentators agree with me. Unfortunately, the guys in Washington are doing absolutely nothing about it. In fact, they have done everything they can get away with in the effort to reduce the number of doctors. They realize that if we fix the problem without socializing the healthcare system, then there will be no need to socialize the healthcare system, so they have done everything they can to prevent the problem from being solved short of that.


17 posted on 11/19/2009 7:07:38 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: rlmorel

It’s purely a matter of supply and demand. If the supply is there, then the price of their services will decline, whether they like it or not. They will work for less, or they won’t work at all. If some of them refuse to work, then the supply will adjust and the price will stabilize, but it’s a self adjusting process, so the price won’t go down unless the supply is there. I think that a lot of neurosurgeons will remain in the business, even if they get paid less than they currently do. The reason they get paid so much now is not simply that few people want to go into this business, or that they aren’t getting paid enough. The main reason is that a concerted effort has been made both by the industry and by the government to reduce the number of doctors.


18 posted on 11/19/2009 7:13:26 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: Sooth2222
Nope. Unless Dr. Iqbal and Dr. Raja are the cream of the cream, they won't get licensed here in the US.

Licensing is a state matter. For many years, maybe still, foreign medical graduates without licensure were welcome to practice in the VA system. Being federal, they did not come under state licensing jurisdiction. If push comes to shove, you can expect the same kind of waiver to be instituted nationwide under "public option."

19 posted on 11/19/2009 7:15:01 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Sooth2222
Nope. Unless Dr. Iqbal and Dr. Raja are the cream of the cream, they won't get licensed here in the US.

Licensing is a state matter. For many years, maybe still, foreign medical graduates without licensure were welcome to practice in the VA system. Being federal, they did not come under state licensing jurisdiction. If push comes to shove, you can expect the same kind of waiver to be instituted nationwide under "public option."

20 posted on 11/19/2009 7:15:19 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Dajjal
And hospitalists are another specialty that women gravitate to since they do not have to carry their work home. Emergency physicians also, but to a lesser extent.
21 posted on 11/19/2009 7:20:54 PM PST by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: neodad

The advent of ZerOcare will split American health care into two tiers where American trained doctors treat those who can afford it and foreign trained doctors don’t see the rest.


22 posted on 11/19/2009 7:22:56 PM PST by depressed in 06 (ZerOcare: Bureaucratic best practices equals death panels.)
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To: Brilliant
I work in medicine, and that isn't the way it is. The problem is, the supply (need for neurosurgery) is not going to change, unless of course, the government simply mandates allowing a physician's assistant to cut holes in the skull to release pressure as the "standard" for brain injury, the need for surgeons will go down.

But if the government is involved, there is no supply and demand. Liberal socialist nitwits are conceited and arrogant enough to think they can manage it, just like the dumb ass Soviets, and just like the idiot Chavez.

We can add our current government to that heap.

Neurosurgeons ARE well paid, and they should be. There aren't enough of them, but the good pay does drive some who think they can handle it into that specialty.

Having the government regulate how many of a given specialty there is, how much they get paid and where they will practice is NOT going to allow any kind of invisible hand to regulate it.

It is a disaster waiting to happen. A lot of physicians are paid well now, but the work is extremely stressful for many of them, but the pay is a reasonable compensation for engaging in that profession for them.

23 posted on 11/19/2009 7:26:20 PM PST by rlmorel (Obama, The Flatulence of One Thousand Black Dogs After Eating Boiled Eggs Be Upon Him...)
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To: Dajjal

No worry.

Oba-Mao will let a hundred thousand ‘barefoot doctors’ blossom as he unleashes nurses and even med-techs to do heart surgery and suchlike!

Mmmmmmmm, Mmmmmmmm, Mmmmmmmm !!


24 posted on 11/19/2009 7:30:16 PM PST by dodger
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To: ladyjane
Agree, but the abuse will be rampant and 52-million voters will be overwhelmed
with their right to entitlements granted by voting for obamao.

There will be nothing left for people with real health problems
or the working classes who won't have the time to wait two days in line
when their families need money for food.

I see a crisis on par with a need for martial law.

25 posted on 11/19/2009 7:32:05 PM PST by MaxMax (Obamao can't play in the Olympic reindeer games)
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To: Brilliant
"...It’s purely a matter of supply and demand..."

I might have misunderstood you...I presume you mean in the absence of socialized medicine...:)

26 posted on 11/19/2009 7:32:51 PM PST by rlmorel (Obama, The Flatulence of One Thousand Black Dogs After Eating Boiled Eggs Be Upon Him...)
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To: hinckley buzzard
"...If push comes to shove, you can expect the same kind of waiver to be instituted nationwide under "public option..."

Yep.

27 posted on 11/19/2009 7:35:04 PM PST by rlmorel (Obama, The Flatulence of One Thousand Black Dogs After Eating Boiled Eggs Be Upon Him...)
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To: 1776 Reborn
No, people abuse anything that is free. Chicago rings a bell not to long ago.
The system will be overwhelmed.
28 posted on 11/19/2009 7:35:21 PM PST by MaxMax (Obamao can't play in the Olympic reindeer games)
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To: MaxMax
"The system will be overwhelmed."

You mean when the remaining Mexicans and Central Americans who haven't already illegally "immigrated" all come north to get their free health care?

29 posted on 11/19/2009 8:14:03 PM PST by holyscroller ( Without God, America is one nation under)
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To: holyscroller
I'm just talking about current Americans who, once they learn
it's free, will abuse it. The illegals already abuse it.
30 posted on 11/19/2009 8:18:19 PM PST by MaxMax (Obamao can't play in the Olympic reindeer games)
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To: MaxMax
That's the plan. If there's a need for martial law, we can't have an armed citizenry now can we? They might shoot those poor reservists trying to keep order. That will be a good reason to come after our guns with very little resistance. They can promise that our right to health care will be protected, when what they mean is that no one will be shooting at us while we stand in line.
31 posted on 11/19/2009 8:43:21 PM PST by Apple Blossom (Politicians are like diapers, they both need changed regularly, and for the same reason.)
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To: Brilliant

Bingo! I have been screaming this too: The “health care” problem is primarily a supply and demand problem, exacerbated by the gov’t injecting itself and it’s money into the picture. To the extent that tort reform and some other measures could free up medical personnel a little, to do more real “care”, one can chip away at the edges a bit. But the bulk of the problem is NOT being addressed in Washington, largely for the reasons you say, at least when it comes to the libs.

To the person who mentioned RN’s (etc.) taking up the slack, I would remind them that there is a projected shortage of 1 MILLION nurses by 2020. I can’t remember where I read that (might have been a link from Walter Williams site, but for the life of me I can’t find it!)


32 posted on 11/19/2009 8:48:32 PM PST by Paul R. (We are in a break in an Ice Age. A brief break at that...)
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To: Brilliant

Bingo! I have been screaming this too: The “health care” problem is primarily a supply and demand problem, exacerbated by the gov’t injecting itself and it’s money into the picture. To the extent that tort reform and some other measures could free up medical personnel a little, to do more real “care”, one can chip away at the edges a bit. But the bulk of the problem is NOT being addressed in Washington, largely for the reasons you say, at least when it comes to the libs.

To the person who mentioned RN’s (etc.) taking up the slack, I would remind them that there is a projected shortage of 1 MILLION nurses by 2020. I can’t remember where I read that (might have been a link from Walter Williams site, but for the life of me I can’t find it!)


33 posted on 11/19/2009 8:48:46 PM PST by Paul R. (We are in a break in an Ice Age. A brief break at that...)
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To: Paul R.

Is my mouse double clicking tonight???


34 posted on 11/19/2009 8:52:09 PM PST by Paul R. (We are in a break in an Ice Age. A brief break at that...)
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To: Apple Blossom
Sure, and imagine the chaos at the hospital ER's with everyone trying
to see a doctor. Fights, yelling, cussing, And threats to staff.
The so called poor will be the straw that breaks the system, obamao supporters.

That's how I see it happening.

35 posted on 11/19/2009 8:59:23 PM PST by MaxMax (Obamao can't play in the Olympic reindeer games)
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To: Paul R.
more than one million new and replacement nurses will be needed by 2016.
36 posted on 11/19/2009 9:07:17 PM PST by MaxMax (Obamao can't play in the Olympic reindeer games)
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To: Paul R.
And here,

Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA)
released projections that the nation's nursing shortage would grow to more than one million nurses
by the year 2020.

37 posted on 11/19/2009 9:10:32 PM PST by MaxMax (Obamao can't play in the Olympic reindeer games)
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To: 1776 Reborn

“but people are being treated now under our current system and they aren’t finding a severe shortage.”

That depends on what kind of care you need. Try and find a child & adolescent psychiatrist to take care of your kid, and you’ll find out that it isn’t easy. I should know, as it’s a field I’m strongly considering and we have a child with ADD and some anxiety issues.

The nearest one to Eau Claire, Wisconsin? Try 2 hours away in the Twin Cities with a 5-month wait. There are a mere 15 psychiastrists in all of Wyoming. If you’ve got a kid there with psychiatric needs, I guess you pretty much have to hope you find someone in Spokane or Denver.


38 posted on 11/19/2009 9:32:54 PM PST by CaspersGh0sts
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To: Dajjal

One of my Montana Senators, John Tester actually did a town hall meeting on the phone last night and people could ask questions after his spiel about how wonderful this is going to be for Montana. If you were not called on, you could leave a message on his voice mail afterwards. He said that this bill was going to help Montana because everyone would be able to get care, especially in rural areas.

After the call, I left a message asking him where this care would come from, for instance to provide the extra docs would they have to import a bunch of Muslims?


39 posted on 11/19/2009 10:31:24 PM PST by tinamina
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To: Dajjal
"create women doctors" ....how the hell do you do that....

what BS......maybe talk to the two top notch neurosurgeons that are female where I work, or maybe the ob/gyns or the hospitalist that do 7 days on, rotating to nights....

but other than that, I'd like to add...why be a doctor?....4 yrs college,3 or more med school...those internships, etc...the hundreds of thousands of dollars to study the HARD subjects in math,micro,biology,calculus,anatomy,botany,chemistry, etc etc...

go get a 4 year education degree and have weekends and summers off and get paid top dollar and never have get fired....

plus you have that great big union to protect you "for the children" of course.

40 posted on 11/19/2009 10:54:22 PM PST by cherry
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To: PLK
are you saying that male doctors aren't doing the same thing?...

because they are....

there's a growing trend to have hospitalists see patients admitted to the hospital....their own private care doctors don't want the hassle in seeing office and hospital patients, so getting rid of the hospital visits is a boon for them...

where I work, we have very few private doctors come see their own patients....

male doctors want the time off too...

41 posted on 11/19/2009 11:01:06 PM PST by cherry
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To: CaspersGh0sts
I know that has been true of that field as well.
Particularly in more rural areas.
42 posted on 11/20/2009 1:45:52 AM PST by 1776 Reborn (Test kids and politicians (bigger idiots) on the Constitution!)
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To: Paul R.

Exactly. And we’ve already got a nursing shortage. The truth is that if we had as many doctors as we really need, that would increase the demand for nurses even further. And if we had more doctors, that would increase the amount of capital investment. One of the reasons hospitals don’t seem to be able to make it is that there are not enough doctors to staff them. Fix that problem, and hospitals will be opening for business all over America.


43 posted on 11/20/2009 2:59:01 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: rlmorel

I think you are confusing supply with demand. Demand is when someone has a problem they need treatment for. Supply is when there is a doctor who can do the work. You don’t increase supply by increasing the need for neurosurgery. That increases demand. The way to increase supply is to increase the number of doctors.

Our government for some reason thinks that the supply and demand will not balance unless some government bureaucrat makes it balance, so they are constantly adjusting supply by adopting policies designed to reduce (or increase) the number of doctors. For the last 60 years, they’ve always aimed to reduce the number of doctors, not increase them, and that is the source of our shortage for the most part, though I admit that the tort law is also a big part of the problem. A large part of the stress doctors have is that they are overworked because there are not enough of them, and they are expected to spend virtually no time on each patient because there aren’t enough of them.

At the same time, the government has policies that are designed to adjust demand for healthcare. They’ve got subsidies to encourage people to buy more healthcare. They’ve got bureaucrats who decide when people have been getting too much healthcare. Frankly, how much people spend on healthcare is none of their business, though.

In a free market, patients decide how much they are going to spend on healthcare, and what services they are going to obtain, with the advice of their doctors. Doctors decide whether they are willing to work for the price that the patient is willing to pay. When those two things coincide, you have a procedure.

That doesn’t bear much similarity to reality because we don’t have a free market in this area. Despite the fact that it is government that has been manipulating both supply and demand for decades, they blame the mess they’ve created on the “free market.” Their ain’t no free market in this case. The mess we’ve got was caused by government. And you’re not going to fix that problem with more government.

I do think that they could alleviate the problem to some degree by tort reform, but the biggest thing they could do is increase the number of medical schools and the capacity of existing medical schools. Our medical education system does not have the capacity to produce the number of doctors we need. You could build a whole lot of medical schools for a tiny fraction of a percent of what Pelosi wants to spend on socialized medicine.


44 posted on 11/20/2009 3:26:05 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: Brilliant

I’m not sure we are really in disagreement here.


45 posted on 11/20/2009 5:56:44 PM PST by rlmorel (Obama, The Flatulence of One Thousand Black Dogs After Eating Boiled Eggs Be Upon Him...)
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