Posted on 11/07/2009 5:04:33 AM PST by Willie Green
Supporters of a proposed maglev train from Pittsburgh International Airport to Greensburg wooed state representatives Friday with promises the project could create thousands of jobs in high-tech manufacturing, if the government could pay the $5.3 billion price tag.
Building the 54-mile magnetic guideway between the airport, Downtown, Monroeville and Greensburg would create demand for an estimated 533,000 tons of steel and 712,000 cubic yards of concrete, and the precision-welding technology that would be used to turn the steel into the track could then be exported around the world, proponents told members of the state House Transportation Committee during a hearing at Carnegie Mellon University.
The first magnetic levitation trains for Pittsburgh would be manufactured in Germany by Transrapid International, which built the only maglev trains in commercial operation, in China. Using magnets that attract and repel each other, the trains hover a few centimeters above the track and can travel at speeds up to 300 mph. But the company would seek to "Americanize" train production if the technology catches on in the United States, moving executives and engineers back and forth across the Atlantic to establish manufacturing facilities here, said Walter Buss, president of Transrapid International-USA.
"If we could grab this opportunity and run with it, we could become the hub for the (maglev) industry — not just for this country, but for this hemisphere," said Bill George, president of the Pennsylvania AFL-CIO.
(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...
“533,000 tons of steel and 712,000 cubic yards of concrete”
You could buy those materials and then bury them in the ground...and it would be better for society, since you won’t have the operational costs.
Actually, if one wants to use materials like that, how about building a couple of nukes...7 foot concrete walls with 1.875 inch diameter rebar is not exactly metrosexual materials, if you know what I mean, and it will give something useful for decades.
Every time I see a story about a city wanting to build a maglev train I think of the Simpson’s where they built the ultimate useless boondoggle. And that little song goes through my head for the rest of the day...
this had been kicked around for at least 10 years now.
i think at one point in the early ‘00’s, they got so far as to show whose backyards would have the rails behind them, then it promptly died from the protests.
no doubt it would be nice to have, especially if it extended east of greensburg towards altoona, pa. you could have people commuting from the hinterlands in to the city on a daily basis.
Pork, the government white meat.
Wow, suppose we used that material to build a border fence.
Now that would be a great public works project and protect our border too!
these are the comments that stop progress....Maglev is the future.....why not move forward...
They want to build a high speed rail train in Orlando...it should be maglev.
Or a few aircraft carriers...when we get to the point of building useless shrines, then it’s over.
In written testimony submitted in opposition to the project, Randal O'Toole, a senior fellow at the libertarian Cato Institute based in Washington, questioned whether the project would serve destinations people actually want to go to.
Founded by Oil Industry tycoon, Charles G. Koch, and with funding provided by American Petroleum Institute, ExxonMobil, Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation, Koch Family Foundations and the Scaife Foundations (Richard Mellon Scaife, whose wealth was inherited from the Mellon family's ownership of Gulf Oil and banking interests), the libertarian Cato Institute lobbies furiously to maintain America's dependence on Oil.
Agreed, another billion dollar toilet to flush billions and billions of tax dollars down.
I lived in Pittsburgh 1984-1999. When I first moved there, they were having a study about Maglev. It soon died, but 5 years later it resurfaced- and again and again. Two things; first of all, this is simply another university boondoggle. Each of these studies involved millions of dollars in grants for Pitt and CMU. Secondly, the proposals are patently absurd. One of the plans was a 5 mile link from above the civic arena into center city. A high speed train for 3 miles?! One of the more recent was a 12 mile route from the city to the airport. Supposedly the train would make the trip in 10 minutes. Anyone who knows the topography of the area knows this is nuts. It is all hills and the track must zig-zag through the valleys (just like the roads do). The route (that was given full glowing coverage in the Post Gazette) would have to make several 90 degree turns- at 60 MPH+!! All universities spend much of their time grabbing up government grants. But Pitt and CMU, in this totally Democrat controlled region, are masters at it.
533,000 tons of steel... Where would the steel come from? China?
I lived there from 1971 to 1884. Back then they were still laughing about the Pittsburgh “Skybus.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpS5ess9VNc
You may be correct-but why fund it all with government funds?
“I lived there from 1971 to 1884.”
I KNEW you reverse agers were out there ... I JUST KNEW IT :-P. What, did you see the Pirates win the ‘71 World Series and jump on the bandwagon since you heard that they’d also win it in dramatic fashion in 1960??? Bandwagoner. :-P. OK, enough kidding...
I grew up in the South Park area and barely remember the steel pylons that littered Corrigan Drive from the Allegheny Cty. Fairgrounds to the end of the park. Was that part of this Skybus proposal? Please understand I was only 6 or 7 years old when I recall seeing these.
“533,000 tons of steel... Where would the steel come from? China?”
Where else? So we buy a boatload of steel from China, build a useless erector set with it, and smile about all of the ‘jobs’ we created.
“Taxes spent on something that is actually needed (and with a Constitutional justification) will both give jobs and provide something that is actually needed.”
Agreed. Pittsburgh has to do something about its transportation problems too. Getting around this city is a nightmare from the South Hills. I always wanted them to build some kind of train system around this city much like the old street cars (but keep the trains off the streets). It’s part of the reason our population keeps dropping.
The problem is that its all going to come down to some filthy politician wanting their pockets lined. Pittsburgh manages to be one of the cities that has a casino that loses money. For the most part, you can’t have successful government spending when the government is involved :-)!
What sucks about projects like these is that Pittsburgh will end up paying for the construction of the manufacturing center, the technology development, etc., but when its all over and done, all that stuff will belong to some contractor.
I lived in Pittsburgh 1984-1999.
One of the plans was a 5 mile link from above the civic arena into center city.
Anyone who knows the topography of the area knows this is nuts.
As a native Pittsburgher, I fully appreciate how confusing it is to out-of-towners to drive dahntahn anat.
But if after 15 years, yinz still think it's five miles from the Civic Arena into "center city" (I never heard anybody call dahntahn "center city", so I don't know where you mean), then you're hopelessly clueless.
Pittsburgh's dahntahn is very compact. I can walk from the Civic Arena to anywhere else dahntahn in less than 15 minutes.
But that ain't where the Maglev goes.
When they build the Maglev, it's only gonna have one dahntahn stop anat.
So if yinz get on the Maglev dahntahn, it'll either take yinz out to the airport anat (can't walk there) or it'll take yinz to Monroeville or Greensburg going the other way (yinz can't walk there either)
And if you're still confused by the topography and roads, then just follow the Kennywood signs. Sooner or later you'll pop out somewhere that you'll recognize and yinz won't get lost. LOL!!!
>> the trains hover a few centimeters above the track and can travel at speeds up to 300 mph. <<
Sounds like the wrong technology for intra-metro transport. Even dense areas such as NY-Washington would be tough... They just wasted billions on Acela, which hardly goes any faster than the old Northeaster because there are too many stops.
Maybe Phoenix to San Diego to Los Angeles to San Francisco?
Now, if there was only some crazy billionaire to owned a whole lot of train ROW in the Western United States....
but when its all over and done, all that stuff will belong to some contractor.
Which expands the local tax base and provides employment opportunities.
It's a fair arrangement.
I think that's the right idea. Some efficient standard metro or T rail in the city, and some efficient trains out to the suburbs. I live out around Latrobe... getting to the city from here is no picnic either.
But this... what a waste.
I am only concerned with the use, fund it anyway you see fit...
Now, if there was only some crazy billionaire to owned a whole lot of train ROW in the Western United States....
I'm opposed to privately owned rights-of-way because of the restrictions they place on Americans' Freedom to travel.
I would prefer to see rail ROW be publicly owned, just like our highways and airways. Private enterprise would then be free to operate the rolling stock, similar to the way trucking/busing companies operate on our highways and airlines operate on our airways. That way, nobody has monopolistic control over the right-of-way.
I was joshing in my second post. Some crazy billionaire just bought a whole lot of train ROW in the Western United States. Warren Buffet sank most of his fortune into one.
Some crazy billionaire just bought a whole lot of train ROW in the Western United States. Warren Buffet sank most of his fortune into one.
Yes, Buffet bought Burlington Northern Santa Fe... a freight line.
Acquiring BNSF gives Buffet not only a way to profit from importing cheap Walmart consumer crap from China
but also a way to profit from shipping our low-sulfur coal back to China while we get stuck building stupid windmills.
>> Yes, Buffet bought Burlington Northern Santa Fe... a freight line. <<
Hey, freight or not, it’s still railway ROW. That’s why I worded it like that: Obviously you can’t ride a 300 mph train down freight tracks. But you can build something ELSE on top of them, and ROW is one of the most expensive aspects of a railroad.
But yes, I do suppose Buffet is betting on oil/gas making trucking prohibitively expensive for many items. Long term, you’re probably looking at grain, livestock, etc.
Thank you very much for that link! I wonder what all of the real political hoopla was surrounding it. Aside from the T that hits the Library Station close to South Park, it is a total PITA to get to the city from that region. Moreover, getting a transfer in downtown is a mess too. It seems like the Skybus would have been a nice, scalable system to build new legs for public transportation as needed.
Pittsburgh really needs to consider something innovative since building roads isn’t exactly easy given our terrain. The Mon Valley Expressway is a prime example of that (been in the works since the 60s if I am not mistaken ... it required one monster bridge too (the Joe Montana Bridge)). The leg of the MVE that does exist isn’t *that* useful right now. The plan is that it is to be connected to the city in 6 more years ... multiply that by the Pittsburgh/Allegheny Political Log Jam factor, we might see it completed by 2040 or so (long after everyone is gone :-) ).
Taking a 45 minute trip into the city, a 15 minute wait, then a subsequent 30 min or so trip to a destination from the suburbs isn’t going to get many people onto public transportation around here. The two big problems are the money and the fact that it would more than likely be automated (thus threatening the bus drivers jobs). Still, to save PAT driver’s jobs, all you need to do is phase in something sanely. Lost driver jobs via retirement would go to people maintaining the new system.
“And if you’re still confused by the topography and roads, then just follow the Kennywood signs. Sooner or later you’ll pop out somewhere that you’ll recognize and yinz won’t get lost. LOL!!!”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA ... so true, n’at.
Willie - we don't have a problem with dependence on oil - we have a greenNazi luddite neanderthal gangreen cabal that will do all in its power to prevent exploration, access, and construction of valid technologies that will provide jobs, GDP, and policies for our future.
Drill, Baby, Drill!
Willie - we don't have a problem with dependence on oil -
We've had a problem with dependence on oil ever since the 1973 oil crisis
Maybe you don't mind kissing OPECker Camel Jockey butt,
but I don't listen to any idiotic drivel about "we don't have a problem with dependence on oil."
we have a greenNazi luddite neanderthal gangreen cabal that will do all in its power to prevent exploration, access, and construction of valid technologies that will provide jobs, GDP, and policies for our future.
What we actually have is a transnational Oil Lobby that finds it enormously profitable to cooperate with OPEC to keep oil prices elevated and propped up. To the Oil Lobby, the enviro-green whacknuts are merely useful idiots that help them restrain the supply of oil.
It seems like the Skybus would have been a nice, scalable system to build new legs for public transportation as needed.
Yes, Westinghouse engineers certainly had a visionary proposal.
I was only 13 when they built the South Park test loop in '65, and a totally automated, driverless transit system seemed as high-tech and glamorous as the Mercury and Gemini Space program! Especially compared to the old streetcars that were still in operation! LOL!!!
Looking back, I admit to having nostalgic memories of riding on the streetcars, and wouldn't mind seeing a few of those fixed up / refurbished and maybe put into limited service on the South Side as a "touristy" thing...
But I gotta admit, the streetcars were a PITA for people driving cars. Not so much the streecars themselves... sharing the road with them was pretty much the same as a bus. But the tracks were a bit of a problem if you weren't careful... if you weren't paying attention, the tracks could "grab" your tires and affect your steering. Or if it was wet/icy, the tracks were a slick spot on the road that affected your traction/braking.
Pittsburgh is much better off without all those old streetcar tracks going down the middle of the streets.
Anyway, I'm glad you liked the link to the information about SkyBus.
Yes, some people call it a "joke" because it wasn't built.
But IMHO, it wasn't a "joke" at all. It was highly innovative and visionary... and ahead of its time!!
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