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A New Isolationism? A few months ago, Afghanistan was a “war of necessity.” What changed?
National Review Online ^ | November 02, 2009 | Conrad Black

Posted on 11/03/2009 11:17:31 AM PST by neverdem








A New Isolationism?
A few months ago, Afghanistan was a “war of necessity.” What changed?

By Conrad Black

The Obama administration’s shilly-shallying in Afghanistan is a textbook case of how not to conduct a war, and how not to lead an alliance.

In the 2006 and 2008 campaigns, the Democrats demanded the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, and accused the Bush administration of conducting an unnecessary war in that country while ignoring the original campaign in Afghanistan, where the 9/11 terrorist attacks were planned.

As recently as two months ago, President Obama called Afghanistan a “war of necessity,” while Iraq had been a “war of choice.” This was a plausible argument, but Iraq died as an election issue when it became clear that victory might be at hand. And so now, the focus of debate has moved to the “necessary” war in Afghanistan, which American voters had supposed to be a settled issue.

One of the many problems that have arisen with the breakdown,
since Vietnam, of bipartisan agreement in setting U.S. foreign policy is the tendency to lurch, every four or eight years, between the Republican view that the pre-emptive use of force is justified to forestall aggression and advance democratic values, and the Democratic view that foreign military action requires multilateral approval and must respond to a prior casus belli. Yet these latter conditions have been met in Afghanistan, which raises the question of whether today’s Democrats are at heart full-blown pacifists, or at least isolationists.

If either of these is the case, it would represent a radical and dangerous development in American foreign policy.
In 1940–41, Franklin D. Roosevelt turned America from a neutral country to one that approved “all aid short of war” to Britain and Canada, and that attacked German ships on detection for 1,800 miles out from the U.S. Atlantic coast. He conceived of and secured bipartisan approval of the creation of the United Nations. His successor, Harry Truman, organized a bipartisan anti-isolationist coalition, launched the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe, founded NATO, and led the defense of West Berlin, Greece, Turkey, and South Korea. Dwight Eisenhower gained bipartisan approval for his “Open Skies” aerial-surveillance proposal and for the defense of Taiwan, and resumed summit meetings with the Soviet leaders after a lapse of ten years. John F. Kennedy was supported by both parties in negotiating the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. From 1940 to 1965, a very fruitful time in U.S. foreign policy under five presidents of both parties, it was true that “partisanship ends at the water’s edge.”

The long nightmare in Indochina changed that. Having plunged the United States into Vietnam under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson, the Democrats doomed South Vietnam and Cambodia by cutting off all aid to them after Richard Nixon had extracted the 545,000 draftees the Democrats had deployed there on a flimsy legal pretext, and had avoided a Communist takeover in Saigon. Democrats ended all aid to the pro-Western faction in the Angolan war, and made a halfhearted effort to impeach Ronald Reagan for assisting the anti-Communist Contras in Central America. This foreign-policy schism has not healed, though it had become academic for a time after the Cold War ended in complete Western success and the USSR peacefully disintegrated.


If the Democrats will not fight in Afghanistan, it is hard to imagine a campaign they would support. In Afghanistan, unlike in Iraq, the United States has serious allies and a multilaterally (NATO and the U.N.) approved mission. Unlike the Vietnam intervention, it has been properly endorsed by Congress, and the governing party was elected promising a decisive and escalated prosecution of the war. There is not the slightest doubt that this conflict is morally justified, and unassailable in international law, and that it involves the national security of all countries that have been attacked by Islamist terrorists, or might be, including Muslim countries such as Pakistan and Indonesia. And there is little doubt that it is winnable; a military plan has been put together by the world’s foremost authorities in antiterrorist and counterinsurgency warfare, American generals David Petraeus and Stanley McChrystal.

I regret to take issue with old friends with whom I usually agree, such as George Will, but the Afghan expedition does not bear the slightest comparison with Vietnam, or with previous military incursions in Afghanistan by the Soviet Union and the British Empire. Apart from being constitutionally authorized and multilaterally supported, the Afghan war is a response to a direct assault on the United States that originated in Afghanistan. It does not involve U.S. draftees, and the enemy is not receiving the open-ended support of other great powers, as the Vietnamese Communists did from the USSR and China.

There are about 20,000 terrorists in Afghanistan and northwest Pakistan; the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong had over 600,000 exactingly trained and heavily armed soldiers and guerrillas. The allied casualty rate in Afghanistan, even in October, the costliest month in casualties thus far, is about 4 percent of what the U.S. casualty rate was through most of the Vietnam War.

Afghanistan has been unconquerable because it does not possess the geopolitical value that would justify an unconditional commitment: It is a landlocked, mountainous, primitive country with few resources. If the USSR or the British Raj in its heyday had deployed a full-strength effort to subdue it, that effort would have succeeded. But suppressing Afghan resistance could never be justified by the dividends of any possible success.

This isn’t the attempted “occupation” of Afghanistan; it is counterterrorism, not nation-building. It is assistance to a crudely legitimate government in resisting a barbarously primitive movement that enjoys almost no spontaneous popular support, while the civilized world attacks the principal infestation of terrorists in the world.

The Democrats’ very public reassessment of what was recently claimed to be firm U.S. policy is no way to lead an alliance. It is reminiscent of Jimmy Carter’s long campaign to deploy the neutron warhead in Western Europe, followed without notice by his sudden decision not to deploy it. In the present case, Canada, the U.K., France, Germany, and other countries committed forces to this war and have endured casualties there, taking American leaders at their word that this was a serious undertaking to deal a lethal blow to international terrorism. Now, Vice President Biden, whose past foreign-policy brainwaves included dividing Iraq into three countries, is promoting the harebrained sophistry of fighting the cave-dwelling terrorists of Waziristan with sea-launched missiles.

The administration seems to be attaching its deployment decision to a serious conclusion to the ballot-stuffing farce of the Afghan presidential election, and, having brokered a patch-up arrangement that involves a runoff election, may now be more resolute. It may also have been taking its allies more into its confidence than is publicly known, as General McChrystal’s visit to the NATO meeting at Bratislava last week may indicate. (For trying to carry out his assigned mission, he has been described by the Rahm Emanuelites as “General Stanley MacArthur,” as if that were an insult.) NATO appears to be more resolute than the administration. We have come to a strange pass when France is plausibly accusing the U.S. of appeasing the enemy that has inflicted more civilian casualties on this country than it has suffered since the Civil War.

The U.S. has to stop waffling, put the boots on the ground that are the only way to win this just and legal war, and lead its allies, including Pakistan, to the necessary victory over, in George W. Bush’s accurate expression, “evildoers,” which is now within sight. Get serious about winning, or get out. And if the latter, get ready to welcome Osama bin Laden’s murderers back to America’s shores, and forget
about any “coalitions of the willing” in the future. No one will, or should, be willing to follow this sort of feckless vacillating.

— Conrad Black is the author of Franklin Delano Roosevelt: Champion of Freedom and Richard M. Nixon: A Life in Full. He can be reached at cbletters@gmail.com. This is an updated and modified version of a column published October 24 in the National Post of Canada.



TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; conradblack; rats; vietnam
Mr. Black keeps writing about over half of a million American draftees in Vietnam, when two thirds who served there were volunteers.

McNamara’s Folly - The road to failure in Vietnam.

Here's a different source from the one that I linked in comment# 1 of the prior link:

VIETNAM FACTS AND FICTION

Two-thirds of those who served in Vietnam were volunteers. Two-thirds of 2/3 of those who served in World War II were drafted. Approximately 70% of those killed in Vietnam were volunteers.

1 posted on 11/03/2009 11:17:31 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem
What changed?

The Weakling's Poll numbers.

2 posted on 11/03/2009 11:21:07 AM PST by theDentist (fybo; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: All
"One of the many problems that have arisen with the breakdown, since Vietnam, of bipartisan agreement in setting U.S. foreign policy is the tendency to lurch, every four or eight years, between the Republican view that the pre-emptive use of force is justified to forestall aggression and advance democratic values, and the Democratic view that foreign military action requires multilateral approval and must respond to a prior casus belli. Yet these latter conditions have been met in Afghanistan, which raises the question of whether today’s Democrats are at heart full-blown pacifists, or at least isolationists."

That's the point the rats must be made to answer.

3 posted on 11/03/2009 11:25:50 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem

Good find; thank you.


4 posted on 11/03/2009 11:29:10 AM PST by TopQuark
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To: neverdem

I kind of like Conrad, but, isn’t he in jail?


5 posted on 11/03/2009 11:29:41 AM PST by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name now that we have the most conservative government in the world?)
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To: neverdem

NOTHING changed.

It was all campaign rhetoric to alleviate peoples doubts about his stance.

Lies, to use an old fashioned word.


6 posted on 11/03/2009 11:31:51 AM PST by swarthyguy (We (the United States) tax everything that moves and doesnÂ’t move - Hillary Clinton Oct 2009)
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To: neverdem
The is no military solution to a cultural problem. Afghanistan will never have peace[Islam/Tribes].

The age of globalization and the myth of safe haven allows anyone to strike America. Fighting and putting resources in a waste of a country like that does not provide safety for America.

7 posted on 11/03/2009 11:32:22 AM PST by BGHater ("real price of every thing ... is the toil and trouble of acquiring it")
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To: neverdem; Grampa Dave; tubebender; budwiesest; WilliamofCarmichael; dalereed; BOBTHENAILER
As Elaine, on Seinfeld's immortal show said snidely..."War! What is it good for? Absolewtly nuthin!!!" She falsely claimed that this was a quote from the great novel, War and Peace!!! What a hoot!!!

From Cassius Clay to Muhummed Ali to Martin Luther King to Angela Davis and all the little "communutty organizers," war is worthless as it rips billions off from "programs" for their perceived disadvantaged "constituents!"

8 posted on 11/03/2009 11:34:16 AM PST by SierraWasp (A TRILLION DOLLARS PLUS for TWO LOUSY PERCENT COVERED by the Dems latest health plan???)
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To: BGHater

“What Changed”
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The powers that be thought the “Messiah” could just go to Afghanistan with a pocketful of money and some promises and the Warlords(??Who or whatever they are) etal would just go away while we put on a show and eventually bailed out.
The ONLY thing we learned from Russia’s excursion into no mans land was that the ‘War Lords’ will back whoever pays them the most.....My what a unique idea???..and we didn’t learn that very well either.
Oh yeah, they were pretty fair country fighters who also held their own ground....


9 posted on 11/03/2009 11:42:02 AM PST by xrmusn ((6/98 )VOTE THE INCUMBENTS OUT)
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To: SierraWasp; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Grampa Dave
You musta been reading this the same time as me. My favorite quote of the article.

We have come to a strange pass when France is plausibly accusing the U.S. of appeasing the enemy that has inflicted more civilian casualties on this country than it has suffered since the Civil War

10 posted on 11/03/2009 11:43:16 AM PST by BOBTHENAILER (The Obamanistas' are out to GIT YOU , and get you they will--unless----)
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To: neverdem
Mr. Black keeps writing about over half of a million American draftees in Vietnam, when two thirds who served there were volunteers.

Hm... Like you, I'd feel a lot better about this article were it not full of not-quite-right statements of "fact." I was particularly struck by his claims about bipartisan unanimity on foreign policy during 1940-65....

And yet I seem to recall that Eisenhower ran and won on a platform of ending the war in Korea, and there was widespread and quite public Republican dissent about it.

I tend to distrust pundits who feel compelled to support their point (however valid it may be) with just-so stories.

11 posted on 11/03/2009 11:45:15 AM PST by r9etb
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To: neverdem

Leaving aside the factual errors, the simple fact is that Bambi never had intention of fighting fellow Muslims. He had to say something during the campaign, however, so he tried to denigrate Iraq and say that Bush had erred and the “real” war was in Afghanistan, knowing full well he had no intention of fighting any war, anywhere, ever against any Muslims.


12 posted on 11/03/2009 11:48:36 AM PST by livius
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To: BGHater
The age of globalization and the myth of safe haven allows anyone to strike America. Fighting and putting resources in a waste of a country like that does not provide safety for America.

A comment that apparently ignores the fact that Taliban-controlled Afghanistan was the place where Osama bin Laden hatched his successful plans to attack and kill Americans -- aided and abetted by the Taliban, no less.

There is absolutely no reason to expect that the Taliban would be somehow more friendly and reasonable the next time around, after we've left the country -- not to mention a huge military victory -- to them....

There may be no good solutions, but there are some solutions that are definitely a lot worse than others. Yours among them.

13 posted on 11/03/2009 11:50:53 AM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb
‘A comment that apparently ignores the fact that Taliban-controlled Afghanistan was the place where Osama bin Laden hatched his successful plans to attack and kill Americans — aided and abetted by the Taliban, no less.’

9/11 hijackers also planned their attacks from Maryland and Florida.

Most of the recent arrest of would be jihads have had their adventure planned here.

The Beltway snipers show you don't need money or resources to terrorize an entire area or country.

If the jihadist threat and WMD threat is so high would our country continue to allow open border etc, it's illogical to do so, or perhaps our government would use a next attack to continue their fabianist agenda.

As a whole, more Americans are killed, raped, harmed, etc by illegals than AQ. A risk assessment easily reveals our threats, and Afghanistan is not number one.

14 posted on 11/03/2009 11:59:00 AM PST by BGHater ("real price of every thing ... is the toil and trouble of acquiring it")
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To: swarthyguy

You are spot on. Nothing changed. This was just one of the many issues The One lied about to get elected. Even in a Dem year like 2008 he could never have been elected if people knew his true agenda. Not that we didn’t try to tell them . . . .


15 posted on 11/03/2009 12:03:50 PM PST by colorado tanker (Mr. Flyingsaucerballoonboymediawhoreman - this Bud's for you!)
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To: neverdem

Nothing has changed. Obama still prefers to vote “Present”, like he did as a Senator.


16 posted on 11/03/2009 12:06:10 PM PST by Wee-Weed Up
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To: neverdem
Get serious about winning, or get out. And if the latter, get ready to welcome Osama bin Laden’s murderers back to America’s shores, and forget about any “coalitions of the willing” in the future. No one will, or should, be willing to follow this sort of feckless vacillating.

Exactly. Get serious or get out.

But, know that the right answer is to get serious.

If this nation were to go 24/7 against this problem, it could be over in a year. The truth is that there wasn't even a year lapsed between the D-Day landings and the end of the war in Europe.

17 posted on 11/03/2009 12:06:56 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: colorado tanker

In very many ways, instead of proving to the Americans that Democrats can be trusted with Military Affairs and National Security, he has reinforced those very doubts.

He’s walking on eggshells placed over thin ice.

All it’s going to take is one ManMadeDisaster.


18 posted on 11/03/2009 12:10:59 PM PST by swarthyguy (We (the United States) tax everything that moves and doesnÂ’t move - Hillary Clinton Oct 2009)
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To: r9etb
And yet I seem to recall that Eisenhower ran and won on a platform of ending the war in Korea, and there was widespread and quite public Republican dissent about it.

That's basically what I read and learned about it. I didn't start paying attention to the news until about the mid 1960s when I became a teenager.

19 posted on 11/03/2009 12:21:28 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: xzins
If this nation were to go 24/7 against this problem, it could be over in a year.

"This problem" having the essential nature that, just as in Iraq (and in South Vietnam, for that matter) the real solution within the hearts and minds of the Afghan people.

They've been conquered and reconquered and tortured and oppressed for a long, long time ... and their national outlook appears to be based on taking a long-term view on courses of action that minimize their prospects of being victims.

As things currently stand, they probably figure that the US (and therefore NATO) will not stick around for much longer ... which leaves them having to deal with the Taliban for the long term. And so they'll tailor their behavior on that basis. They won't necessarily help the Taliban, but self-interest tells them it's probably best not to actively oppose their ruthless future rulers. And so the Taliban are able to move around fairly freely among the Afghan population.

The truth is that there wasn't even a year lapsed between the D-Day landings and the end of the war in Europe.

Well.... militarily you're right; however, we also learned a lesson from post-WWI Europe, that it's not enough simply to let the losers stew in their own juices. The Marshall Plan and our approach to occupying Japan also focused strongly on changing the culture (political and otherwise) of those nations. (Given Cold War considerations, it's much more complex than I've laid it out, of course.... but the general point remains)

That's what we also have to do in Afghanistan, and that requires us staying there for the long haul. The Afghanis need to know that the Taliban won't simply have to bide their time until we leave. Then we can say we've won.

20 posted on 11/03/2009 12:21:34 PM PST by r9etb
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To: neverdem

in my view this all started to unravel with that mind-numbingly stupid Casey for Senate campaign in ‘06. He was able to convince a large number of voters that the money we were spending in Iraq and Afghanistan should have been spent on more government goodies for the voters back home. Since that line of reasoning won him a Senate seat it appears to have totally taken over the Democrat party. Now you have Republicans jumping into the fray, not wanting to get any more of our fighting men and women killed over there if Obama is going to manage the war in such a half-fast manner. Not encouraging if you are an Afghan who tried to help us since we went in.


21 posted on 11/03/2009 12:25:15 PM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: swarthyguy

Since the Democrat party split over Vietnam and kicked out their pro-defense people we’ve had two “moderate” Democrat presidents, Carter and Clinton, who didn’t do so much damage to national security that we couldn’t fix it. We may not be so lucky this time.


22 posted on 11/03/2009 12:38:37 PM PST by colorado tanker (Mr. Flyingsaucerballoonboymediawhoreman - this Bud's for you!)
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To: neverdem

btt


23 posted on 11/03/2009 3:05:26 PM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: BOBTHENAILER

Yeah, I had to read that twice because I missed the word “civilian” the first time and knew that wasn’t right!!!


24 posted on 11/03/2009 4:37:22 PM PST by SierraWasp (A TRILLION DOLLARS PLUS for TWO LOUSY PERCENT COVERED by the Dems latest health plan???)
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To: neverdem

The volunteers I knew of in Viet Nam joined the Marines, AF and Navy when they saw the letter from the Army in the mailbox. (Leave it in the mailbox, head to the recruiters) Do those count as volunteers?


25 posted on 11/03/2009 4:57:24 PM PST by Mamzelle (Who is Kenneth Gladney? (Don't forget to bring your cameras))
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To: Mamzelle
The volunteers I knew of in Viet Nam joined the Marines, AF and Navy when they saw the letter from the Army in the mailbox. (Leave it in the mailbox, head to the recruiters) Do those count as volunteers?

Many volunteered for the Marines, AF and Navy out of fear of being drafted into the Army and assigned to the Infantry. Some wanted to be Marine Infantry. Those volunteering for the AF and Navy had longer terms of active duty. I don't recall exactly how long those enlistment contracts were, maybe four years or more, IIRC. When the draft was going hot, 1967 - 1968, one out of five draftees were sent to the Marines for two years. The other four went to the Army for two years.

It's not a simple story. Many wanted to choose their terms of service and military occupational specialty. Many didn't want the luck of the draw. But to say the U.S. effort in Vietnam was more than half of a million draftees is a gross distortion.

There was a total of 1.5 million active duty soldiers in just the U.S. Army when I joined the Army in 1969. Obviously, most of them were not in the Republic of Vietnam.

26 posted on 11/04/2009 1:56:36 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; bigheadfred; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...
Image and video hosting by TinyPic "I've got a different hand up my ass, putting on a different puppet show every week."
Thanks neverdem.
27 posted on 11/04/2009 4:57:13 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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