Posted on 11/03/2009 2:28:15 AM PST by suspects
Sunday I spoke to a room full of potential Republican candidates at a training session in Foxboro, MA. And while I don’t like to brag, I must report that, every time a certain name was mentioned, the crowd let out a cheer.
And that name was . . . Doug Hoffman.
If you’re like 70 percent of America - 99 percent one month ago - you probably don’t recognize the name. He’s the obscure, underfunded, third-party candidate for an Upstate New York congressional seat.
And, just maybe, the future of American politics.
When President Barack Obama picked Rep. John McHugh to be secretary of the Army, the White House thinking was that this usually GOP district could go blue on Obama’s coattails. But after 10 months of “hope and change,” Obama’s been cut back to a dinner jacket.
However, when the GOP leadership in the 23rd Congressional District came out of the back room, the candidate who emerged from the smoke was ultra-liberal Dede Scozzafava.
So a traditional conservative and Tea Party activist Doug Hoffman said “enough is enough.” He got on the ballot on the Conservative Party line and started running against the political establishment.
It worked. His coalition of talk listeners, town hallers and the generally annoyed put him in second place in recent polls. Acknowledging the inevitable, Scozzafava dropped out on Saturday.
On Sunday she endorsed the Democrat. It was the perfect move for the handpicked candidate of the National Clueless Party.
The NCP, by the way, is completely bipartisan. When you’re at a GOP event and the attendees are cheering the candidate who drove the Republican out of the race, it’s not politics as usual.
If Hoffman wins today, I predict...
(Excerpt) Read more at bostonherald.com ...
GO DOUG!
NY 23 is/was a special case. There was no primary and the local party bosses went against the wishes of the voters and picked a loon.
This energy that conservatives have generated needs to be applied in Republican Primaries - thats where to target the RINOs.
Get active in the local Republican power structure and vote in the primaries.
It’s not only who he is, it’s what he represents. This is the line in the sand along with NJ and VA. This is the road back on two fronts. the clean up and reorganization of the GOP by the will of the people and the message to the criminals in DC. Change is coming and it looks nothing like the change your shuving down our throats!
The imposters and elitists who marched into DC this January and who hate our guts to the core, are cognizant more than anyone else of the Great 2008-2009 American Weapons and Ammunition Stock-up phenomenon immediately at the grassroots after the election of The Messiah. WE have the balance of power at the end of the day--they know it in their patently evil, unconstitutional heart of hearts. I much prefer that this be solved in a civil, peaceful manner and we turn them out of office one by one, starting with our own party (Republicans) with cross-the-board derinofication. Today, Tuesday, will be one such good step in that direction.
Don't expect them to go quietly into that dark night of defeat, though, continue to be vigilant in light of our electoral victories and humiliation of Barack Hussein Obama (hmmm, mmmm, MMM!) today.
They will hem and haw, spin and lie, but they will also look for even more clever ways to throw the kitchen sink at us. In response, be stronger, wiser, bolder, raise up even MORE Doug Hoffmans, and take back our country in 2010.
FReepers are feeling their oats a bit too much on this one and even if Hoffman wins it's a scenario unlikely to repeat itself elsewhere.
This is EXACTLY what has to happen and we all know it! However it will NOT happen with Third party candidates. So all you republican haters get a clue, and put your third party conservative in the republican primaries if there's a place. We have to gain power in the party before anything can happen.
Our mission, goal, objective, mantra is to remove moderates/rino's. THEN, and only then can we effectively deal with dems.
I get what your saying and even have this skimish feeling you're correct on this. However, this is a break which conservatives can build on and definitely should take advantage of to the hilt!
As conservatives, we have to take back this party or we will lose this country!
It happens in other places, in other ways as well. In NH, often there are several Reagan Republicans running in a primary along with a single LimpRichard Republican. The conservative vote gets split and you end up with Jeb Bradley or Charlie Bass. I don’t think that will be the caase in 2010 though.
Reading and very infrequently listing to Mike makes me glad that I grew up listening to a much brighter guy, Avi Nelson, who incidently will be substituting on WRKO this afternoon in place of Howie.
And why might that be?
Freepers do not make up the total of Tea Party and Patriot activist and the entire new grass roots movement we have seen this past summer.
And your suggestion that this is an anomaly which can no be repeated is not only a pessimistic attitude but one which we won't know if it can be duplicated unless we try
So you can accept this as a simple lucky circumstance where all the stars were aligned and give up without a fight, but that's not what the majority of us who see this as a test case which can be shown that regardless of where we live, we can affect the outcome of local/state elections and move toward taking back our country.
It may not work and it may take more than one election cycle but one this for sure, it will NOT happen if we accept defeatist attitudes like yours.
even if Hoffman wins it's a scenario unlikely to repeat itself elsewhere.
I'm thinking this is Republican Party talking point number one for the day.
I'm also thinking it's "whistling past the graveyard."
That is exactly why we ended up with Juan MacLame.
Better to say “My fellow conservative won because I stepped aside.” than to say “Me and my conservative friend split the conservative vote so the lib got the nod and is on to the general election.”
PS - Done been and voted this morning. Hey, only the Mayor and my city council on my ballot but I voted.
“And why might that be?”
Because if the Republican is not pure enough for 5% of the voters and they run a “pure” candidate as a third party the Dem’s will win.
Third parties are spoilers.
Everybody claims NC is a Blue State now. Horse Crap. Obama won NC by less than 25,000 votes. Barr got more than 25,000 votes and threw NC to Obama.
I have a whiny, unanswerable question (I’m chenneling Dilbert, I guess):
Why the hell do we sit back and let the libs corrupt our language so that it always paints us negatively? I heard at least three times during this morning’s commute that Scozzafava’s fate in this race was evidence that “moderates” were unwelcome in the GOP.
McCain is a moderate republican. Graham is a moderate republican. They have conservative leaning tendencies, that they regularly submerge in a wash of moderacy.
Scozzafava would be a moderate to liberal DEMOCRAT, for cripe’s sake, and yet the premise that her snub means “moderates” are unwelcome never gets challenged on the basis that her moderacy is a fricking lie!
Sorry for the rant, but (like Rush says) “Words mean things”.
TRY!
I'm not saying don't try. I'm simply saying that I don't see this being the beginning of some kind of third party juggernaut. I think efforts to elect and reform the GOP from the ground up would work better but by all means knock yourself out. Endeavor to persevere.
When the R party puts up a candidate just as liberal as the dems, the dem SHOULD win.
Scozzafava would be a moderate-to-liberal DEMOCRAT. This bullcrap about a “purity test” is just that - bullcrap. When I hear “but you HAVE to support the R or the D might win”, I can easily translate it into “you will stay on the plantation and eat the excrement sandwich we the R party have prepared for you”.
It is absolutely NOT a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good, but rather the acceptable being the enemy of the liberal. For anyone who doesn’t understand it, please just quit trying to pretend you represent conservatives - because you are lying.
You are correct. Scozzafava is no more a “moderate” than Barbara Boxer is.
I am not talking about a DeDe type person, or a MacLame or Gramnesty.
I'm talking about the typical primary that will be coming up for 2010. One of the Candidates will be more “Moderate” than the other. You need to take the “Moderate” out in the primary.
If you can't marshal your forces and take them out in the primary you can only be a spoiler in the general election.
If this was all about me I would have stayed a Republican. It’s the home of the self-serving.
I see you missed the point.
Eh, better to adopt the Georgia rule and have a runoff if nobody gets a majority vote.
Just an honest observation; in Boston the days of high powered intellect and accomplishment off the air (Nelson and Brudnoy come to mind) are gone. Typically talking head = empty suit; it’s almost as tough as finding one of these guys who took time to serve in uniform as a young guy. Those folds tend to be REALLY rare birds.
I’d point out in NH there are Reagan Republicans running and they’re both female!
True, that would stop the three way race where the two conservatives split the conservative vote and the “Moderate” goes on to the general election.
Some areas around here are playing with the instant runoff. Where you make a first and second pick. The low person is dropped and then the votes recounted.
I’d have to think on that method a while.
That would be a first in the nation; it may actually help out obscure candidates: Huckabee/Hunter or Thompson/Huckabee. Florida can’t even get the first election right, never mind second choices.
Your point appears to be that we the people should accept any candidate profferred by the R party - and only vote our principles in the primary.
My point is that there is a point at which one can no longer claim to have principles if one is willing to ignore them in the general election.
The word “unacceptable” has a meaning. Your viewpoint makes the party in charge of deciding what is or is not unacceptable. Mine puts the voter in charge.
I didn’t “miss the point”. I’m contradicting your point.
Words mean things.
LOL!
Well the good news is nobody really cares what you think.
Thank you for proving my point.
One more reminder to you that this is not your personal locker room for vulgar, obscene or otherwise foul mouthed comments. Clean up your language. Now. Make that permanently.
Okay - I’ll bite. I explicitly define what my understanding of your point is so you can correct it if need be. I don’t know whether you’re too lazy or to osmug to be bothered, but this is a little things called “debate”, where an honest exchange requires careful construction of the communications.
Now, rather than cryptically insisting I missed the point, please illustrate how I did so. Show me where I misstated your viewpoint, if you can.
Otherwise, you are revealed as a simple party-statist.
That may be so...
But it doesn’t change the fact that almost every account created in 1998 seems to be piloted by a liberal troll.
Not ALL, but a significant number...
;^)
BTW... My family loves me and cares what I think. =P
I make my fight in the primaries.
You would rather Obama be reelected so you can feel good about yourself.
My point is “If you don’t like what the Republican Party is doing in your neck of the woods - CHANGE IT. Get involved, remove the power brokers, work to change the elections laws, close the primary to only Republicans.”
Running off to vote third party when the third party guy has no chance only makes you feel good and elects “The other guy”.
In a year, 2010, that the Republicans should pick up a bunch of seats look for third party voters to throw many of the seats back to the D’s.
Take the RINO out in the primary - if not vote for the RINO and target them in the next election. At least we could get rid of Pelosi.
Strategy over emotions. Think long term.
That's a fallacy - a false dichotomy. You are thinking and acting tactically only - and it is the reason why we're in the mess we find ourselves in to begin with.
You claim to be thinking strategically, but cannot face the fact that supporting any candidate just slightly to the right (if at all) of the dem means that the GOP marches left at the same rate as the dem party - just a step behind.
Apparently, you are willing to support this in the hope that you can dislodge the "power brokers" without ever threatening to not support their candidate. While we're wishing, I'd like a pony.
What you are trying to label as emotion is entirely logical. The republican Pavlov is ringing the bell. You are salivating. I'm looking for the food.
Remember the letter posted that someone said
THEY WOULD RATHER PICK SOMEONE FROM THE PHONE BOOK, THAN THOSE THAT ARE IN CONGRESS NOW?
If I am hungry and thirsty and someone offers me a glass of water I can drink it and be just hungery.
If you are hungry and thirsty and someone offers you a glass of water you would rather dump it out and say “I’m waiting for wine to go with a meal someone may offer me.”
Get back with me after the Nov 2010 elections with the numbers of how many third party candidates got elected and of the ones not elected but helped the D back into office.
Straw men do not long stand, FRiend.
You are still arguing the idea of the perfect being the enemy of the good.
I am pointing out that, in cases like NY23, the R candidate was offering you vinegar to drink. Do you still want to believe you will only be hungry after drinking it?
Let me define two words for you (from dictionary.com)...
Perfect: conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type
Acceptable: meeting only minimum requirements; barely adequate
You want to argue over perfect. I am talking about acceptable. To continue to try to conflate the two as you have throughout our debate is intellectually dishonest.
Ya’ know you just can’t get past NY23 can you. You just can’t deal with the fact that just about everything done in that situation was special - not typical.
The stars are not going to line up in the heavens for you and conservatives are not going to run as third parties all over the country and win everywhere in the 2010 elections.
Let it go, focus, man focus.
If you get to work now you may make a difference. If you keep chanting third party, third party all you’ll be is a spoiler.
Get back with me after
I have not chanted “third party” at all. (Another straw man?)
I have only stated that the GOP cannot and should not take for granted that conservatives will support them - even against the conservatives’ best interests. “Acceptable” applies to candidates, just as the word “unacceptable” does.
You have no idea whether I am policially involved, or what my involvement is, so I guess you are the perfect individual to lecture me to “get to work now”?
Focus, indeed.
Well, bless your heart.
I make my fight in the primaries, will you? If you will then we have nothing to argue about if....
If your choice don’t win in the R primary and you still vote for the R in the general election instead of going third party.
Now, back to my bowl of cheese grits. It’s pine straw season and I have some raking to do after lunch.
I make my fight throughout. In the primaries, for the best candidate in my judgment.
In the general, only if the primary winner is unacceptable.
Acceptability is a relatively low hurdle. Dedicated liberals need not apply.
What kind of cheese do you season your grits with? When I occasionally have grits, I’ve taken to using heavy butter, myself.
Have a great day.
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