Posted on 10/27/2009 8:14:48 PM PDT by Saije
As Marines here train to deploy to war zones, there is daily discussion about how to detect and disarm the buried roadside bombs that are the No. 1 killer of Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Military researchers have found that two groups of personnel were particularly good at spotting anomalies: those with hunting backgrounds, who traipsed the woods as youths, looking to bag a deer or turkey; and those who grew up in tough urban neighborhoods where it is often important to know what gang controls which block.
Personnel who fit neither category, often young men who grew up in the suburbs and developed a liking for video games, did not seem to have the depth perception and peripheral vision of the others, even if their eyesight is 20/20.
The findings did not surprise Army Sgt. Maj. Todd Burnett, the top enlisted man with the Pentagon-based Joint Improvised Explosive Device Defeat Organization, or JIEDDO, which conducted the study. He's made multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and ridden in more than 1,000 convoys and, on 19 occasions, been in a vehicle hit by a roadside bomb.
The best troops he's ever seen when it comes to spotting bombs were soldiers from the South Carolina National Guard, nearly all with rural backgrounds that included hunting.
"They just seemed to pick up things much better," Burnett said. "They know how to look at the entire environment."
Personnel from urban backgrounds also seemed to have developed an innate "threat-assessment" ability. Both groups,..., "seem very adaptable to the kinds of environments" seen in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Video game enthusiasts are narrower in their focus, as if the windshield of their Humvee is a computer screen. "The gamers are very focused on the screen rather than the whole surrounding," said Sgt. Maj. Burnett...
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Video game enthusiasts are narrower in their focus, as if the windshield of their Humvee is a computer screen. “The gamers are very focused on the screen rather than the whole surrounding,” said Sgt. Maj. Burnett...
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Give your daughters a gun for Christmas...
forget those dumb video games...
Barbie in Cammies with a gun rack on her Jeep
And a .22 in her acessories...
Some high school athletic programs may do it but at the college level, tests are given of perception whereby a picture is briefly shown and the athlete asked to identify objects in the picture. Many have a tunnel vision that permits them to only see the focal point of the photo but subsequent exercises help the athlete broaden his/her perceptive abilities in hopes of developing a better sense of awareness in competition.
Right on. Guns for Christmas. I like that idea!
Yes but when it comes to a clear objective such as taking out a machinegun nest, I wonder how the gamers do?
I remember a article about bird hunters being better at dogfighting gunnery in WWII.
I do believe that in WW2 one of the ways they taught and searched for the best gunners for bombers was to have them shoot skeet from the back of a moving truck. The guys that knew, or learned quick how to adjust for the movements of both the vehicle and the target...got the job..
A very interesting question. I love this research.
Then it's the Kentucky riflemen with their long squirrel rifles and knowledge of "Kentucky Windage"
when it comes to a clear objective such as taking out a machinegun nest, I wonder how the gamers do?
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Sorry...
Life over...
He didnt see the machinegun nest...
however, if a good ol boy from N’th Char’stin, Sarth C’linar or a homie from the ‘hood is there to save his butt...
I reckon he would do OK...
Barbies in cammies, you betcha! Two of my grand gals age 13 and 15 have brought in their venison already way ahead of dads and bros. And at the tender age of nine I watched the now 15-year old whack a mean ol’ snake that dared to raise up and strike at her 3 out of five times with a handgun.
Don’t mess with MY gals!
My brother's .50 gunner was an avid hunter and an excellent shot with moving targets from a moving vehicle.
I recall being in the woods and seeing deer walk past us at 10-15 feet and my (non-hunting) partner totally miss seeing them, even watching that direction.
Life over...
He didnt see the machinegun nest...
Actually, my question involved a clear objective. One cannot miss seeing the objective when the objective is clear.
One cannot miss seeing the objective when the objective is clear.
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Apparantly one can...
Soldier’s Gut...
This is such nonsense. The kids who grew up carrying guns through the forest hunting for game to kill, or who grew up on the tough urban streets naturally became weary, watchful and suspicious at an early age, that's just common sense. They needed to develop those skills for either survival or to become successful hunters. The kids who grew up more protected, safe and sound had less to be watchful and weary about, it's just that simple. Leave it to the "scientists" to make something so simple become so complicated.
i think what they are saying is that if your trolling through an alley you dont want to learn on the job
Pretty good I imagine, as long as they don't run out of ammo and don't mind carrying lots of it with them...
You'll shoot your eye out!...
When I was a kid, a friend of the family said they trained in a ball turret shooting .50 cal buckshot type round at skeet. A few months ago, I met a elderly man who was stationed at a bomber gunnery training range in WWII and he said they also used .50 multi-ball rounds fired at skeet from bomber firing positions.
I bet the term,'GAMEOVER' takes on a whole new meaning...
I also wonder if degrees of color blindness have something to do with it?
Big City - Urban are also the best with threat assessment
as reproted.
If I had to be in a foxhole with anyone, those who grew up in the woods or in the ‘hood would be my first choices, you bet.
I play lots of FPS and I hunt squirrels. I must tell you, games tell you nothing about aiming your gun properly. In games bullets always fly straight, no holds or elevation adjustments needed - just magic! Also there is no wind, and not too many games incorporate shooting at moving targets from a moving vehicle; though this is changing, thanks to Halo for example; in Resistance there is an entire episode where you are driven around, and you are given a .50 (or so) machine gun and your task is to shoot everything that moves.
Games are also designed with a hard to achieve objective in every episode. The idea is that if you get killed a dozen times you will eventually find that one special move that is needed here. In Resistance 2, for example, such occurred to me in the city square with three Titans. It took me a while to realize that I can crouch behind a low wall and Titans won't see me. This is not natural because in real life such a small wall won't do you any good. Also in real life your best decision would be to retreat, unconditionally. In the game you are blocked from leaving until you complete the goal; so you are trained on accomplishing a goal that is totally ridiculous in reality.
Additionally, every episode in the game is usually built on a single goal - you need to go through the area, or you need to take some enemy out, or you need to suppress that machine gun... IMO it is simplistic. In real life you have far more options; it's just game designers seldom want to give you those. I can highlight Postal 2 as a game which is full of options and you can run most missions (get milk, mail a letter, vote, etc.) without attacking anyone. The game is specifically proud of that, if you do something bad in the game it's because you want it done, not because the game put you into a corner against 100 zombies.
But in general video games are good. They are fun and puzzles, and they require some quick actions, and they require you to pay attention to details. Perhaps not as much as you'd need to hunt in woods, but certainly more than you'd learn doing nothing, staring at the TV screen.
Santa brought me a nice little wheelgun last year for Christmas! I love Santa!
But not all video gamers are good.
They are fun and puzzles, and they require some quick actions, and they require you to pay attention to details. Perhaps not as much as you'd need to hunt in woods, but certainly more than you'd learn doing nothing, staring at the TV screen.
Games are simulators. Simulators are useful but no substitute for the real world.
A lot happens in the mind of a gamer over the course of several hours of play. You can tell just by looking at their faces when they are done. Not quite the thousand yard stare but something along those lines. It's a very different look from that of a deer hunter who just came down after several hours on a stand. The deer hunter doesn't have the dazed mentally drained look of the gamer.
Ignoring all the cheat modes, replays, unlimited health, etc of video games, a unique mental drill takes place in the mind of a gamer and that has to translate into some real world advantage. My suspicion is given the focused nature of games, the real world benefit is in focused multi-variable tasks
“If I had to be in a foxhole with anyone, those who grew up in the woods or in the ‘hood would be my first choices, you bet.”
I’d also want to be with someone who wasn’t as terrified as me. And who still had plenty of ammunition.
And somebody with really good aim.
The best troops he's ever seen when it comes to spotting bombs were soldiers... with rural backgrounds that included hunting.
Ya think.
Ping if you honor the memories of Sgt. Alvin York and Sgt. (oops Lt.) Audie Murphy.
York: Through many hunting trips with his father, William York, Alvin grew to be an excellent marksman, gaining a legendary reputation throughout Fentress County, Tennessee. He was born in poverty in Pall Mall, Tennessee. His family owned a meager farm and often supplemented their diet via hunting.
Murphy: He became very skilled with a rifle, hunting small game to help feed the family. One of his favorite hunting companions was neighbor Dial Henley. When he commented that Murphy never missed when he shot at squirrels, rabbits, and birds, Murphy replied, "Well, Dial, if I don't hit what I shoot at, my family won't eat today."
Survivalist hunters who lived and earned the Medal of Honor while striving to keep their brothers alive.
I weep with pride for them... and for all the ones who died while striving to keep their brothers alive... and for those who did so with no record to honor their giving.
ping
I thought you mignt be interested in this thread.
I wonder if they had considered the Robert Heinlein concept of a “designated Lucky man”
As also seen in old folk sayings
Throw a lucky man into the sea, and he will come up with a fish in his mouth
Related: As in blinda$$ dumb luck beats skill and training every time (not my quote BTW)
It does make sense that an outdoorsman would do better. The famous Annie Oakly grew up putting food on the table with small arms.
I think we qualified for the Jeff Foxworthy, You just might be a Redneck ....
“Some troops have sixth sense for bombs”
In a rational world, some alert film-maker would be making a new version
of the old BBC series “Danger: UXB” about the Brits that took care
of unexploded bombs (often in civilian area) during WWII.
And updating it with what our USA and coalition troops have to endure.
But, I won’t hold my breath.
Any rational telling of the work of our American UXB personnel
would just wouldn’t pass Hollyweird’s sniff test:
1. “It’s too pro-USA”
2. “It’s too nasty in portraying “freedom fighters”. Even if it
was an honest representation of terrorists that will even kill some
of their own in order to force women back into burqas and stop all
that pagan infidel activities...like flying kites and having
TVs and DVD players.
(yep, The Taliban forbad flying kites when they ran Afghanistan).
I don’t remember the circumstances, but I was once given a battery of tests in which I was shown groups of words or numbers, and quickly realized that it was impossible to read and remember the NAMES of the words or numbers, but that it was necessary simply to remember the image, and then “read” the words and numbers off the remembered image. I’m sure psychologists have names for these different ways of “remembering.”
How sad. Did she have polio or something?
check out stargate universe for special spice:
I make it a point not to make fun of small town USA because those are the places that farm the soldiers who protect us.
On the down side, just heard the 8 soldiers that gave their lives today are out of Ft. Lewis. You can feel the agony of those waiting to hear.
I think he meant that the table had small arms...
very interesting , Thanks
Thalidomide.
Tables don’t have arms.
Chairs have arms. ;-)
I visited Camp Lejeune in 2006 and they were training Marine officers using, substantially, variants of video games. They would continually “up” the pressures (more wounded, air evac shut down, supporting artillery denied) right up to the breaking point. I found it very instructive and a great training tool, as did the men I interviewed.
Thanks.
You are correct. I don’t know about the moving truck, but the gunners were involved in skeet shooting from a tall tower as part of their training.
;^)
Where'd dat snake buy it's ammo? ;^)
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