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American college grads: Homebodies with worthless degrees
time ^ | October 15, 2009 | Justin Fox

Posted on 10/24/2009 11:44:00 AM PDT by george76

I had a somewhat disturbing conversation yesterday with Steve Fussell, the senior VP of human resources at pharmaceutical maker Abbott. His basic message, which I may pursue in a column down the road, was that Abbott is going to be hiring tons of people for high-paying jobs over the next decade, but not many of them will be Americans because we study the wrong things in college and we're not willing to work overseas.

The key quotes:

1) "I hate to say we don't have the world's best universities. We may have the best minds, the best liberal arts education. The problem is it doesn't match the work anymore." (That is to say, not enough students are getting science and math degrees.)

2) "I don't have these graduates in Europe and Asia telling us they want to live with mom and dad or they don't want to relocate to Asia."

(Excerpt) Read more at curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: academia; education; learning; liberalarts; teaching; universities
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1 posted on 10/24/2009 11:44:00 AM PDT by george76
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To: george76

I am glad I have an EE degree and have my PE.


2 posted on 10/24/2009 11:45:33 AM PDT by Perdogg (Sarah Palin-Jim DeMint 2012 - Liz Cheney for Sec of State - Duncan Hunter SecDef)
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To: george76

I met two lovely young 20-somethings in a dining group I belong to. Both ready to get their MBAs. Didn’t have the heart to tell them that their degrees were close to worthless.


3 posted on 10/24/2009 11:46:02 AM PDT by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: george76

Souns like a self-serving statement. Multinationals like to hire foreigneers because they are cheap labor.


4 posted on 10/24/2009 11:47:27 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: Perdogg

The same, but had I to do over again, I’d have started a business and cheated my ass off in taxes.


5 posted on 10/24/2009 11:47:29 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: george76
But too many of the will be reliable, dependent, Democrat voters. Obama will be pleased and the education grants will flow to make more of the same.
6 posted on 10/24/2009 11:47:50 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: BunnySlippers

did you get their digits?


7 posted on 10/24/2009 11:48:50 AM PDT by Perdogg (Sarah Palin-Jim DeMint 2012 - Liz Cheney for Sec of State - Duncan Hunter SecDef)
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To: george76
This isn't new. Twenty plus years ago, it was very difficult to find metallurgical or chemical engineers unless you considered foreign nationals schooled in the USA. It was even more difficult to find American graduates who would relocate to mining towns.
8 posted on 10/24/2009 11:52:22 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: george76
To play the devil's advocate:
The only way I would expatriate from my beloved United States to work overseas is with a robust employment contract.
Employers can be equally quirky and flaky, so it's a two-way street.


9 posted on 10/24/2009 11:54:39 AM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: C19fan
What do they pay a mid-career biomed technician? What do they pay a mid-career PhD biochemist with a solid track record of pharmaceutical development? What do they pay the MBA's/JDs in their finance, marketing and government relations departments?

I think they will discover that they have incentivized their own personnel problems.

10 posted on 10/24/2009 11:54:58 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: BunnySlippers
I met two lovely young 20-somethings in a dining group I belong to. Both ready to get their MBAs. Didn’t have the heart to tell them that their degrees were close to worthless.

Our son has a bachelor's in info systems, is about to earn his MBA and has a great job, now and will get a raise and continue in that job when he completes this degree. Of his graduating class of MBAs, most are already employed, or have jobs lined up (and unemployment in our area is around 12 percent in our area.)

11 posted on 10/24/2009 11:55:54 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: george76
Maybe this guy should know that a lot of Americans - after spending a ton of dough and in some cases busting butt for 4 years to get a degree - have no inclination to live in a polluted, crime ridden $hithole so the multinational can have a wider profit margin.

That said, I'm still looking for jobs in Singapore.

FWIW, I have worked in Korea and Russia - you see a lot of Alaskans and folks from Down Under working OS. Don't know why, you just do.

12 posted on 10/24/2009 11:58:46 AM PDT by ASOC (Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui)
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To: Perdogg
I am glad I have an EE degree and have my PE.

Ditto but for an ME degree.

13 posted on 10/24/2009 11:59:15 AM PDT by SteamShovel (When hope trumps reality, there is no hope at all.)
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To: george76
Life is easy and hard at the same time. Hard, if you can't find someone to employ you, and easy if you can sell a product or service to a customer.

No matter what age, sex, color, etc..

5.56mm

14 posted on 10/24/2009 11:59:28 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: george76

What he is REALLY saying is they work 60 hours a week for 1/2 of what Americans want..

If our universities are so bad, why is our local University’s medical. dental and engineering schools filled with Muslims, Indians, Chinese etc??


15 posted on 10/24/2009 11:59:34 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: dawn53

Congrats and good luck to your sons.

In the stock market, my field, I do see a big preference for advanced degrees. But I don’t see a big difference in pay for those who got the degrees and those who advanced through the ranks.

Having said that, employers also gauge people who have advanced degrees as being individuals who can stick to a plan and complete it.


16 posted on 10/24/2009 11:59:51 AM PDT by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: C19fan

There are plenty of high-skilled, scientific/technically degreed Americans.

The problem with them is that they have illusions about being middle class or that they are no longer 25 years old. Corporations talk about “entry-level” positions requiring at least 5 years of solid experience and pay not much more than unskilled labor.

I would never encourage a young person to go into a scientific field unless they were curious and had a fallback plan for making a living.


17 posted on 10/24/2009 11:59:51 AM PDT by Nepeta
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To: george76

I had this exact discussion with my coworkers 2 weeks ago.

The is no longer the societal stigma attached to adult children, who can afford to live on their own, still living with their parents.

And I think that changed within the last 10 years or so.


18 posted on 10/24/2009 12:00:08 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: george76

However, our university system produces the finest commie loons in the world.


19 posted on 10/24/2009 12:00:13 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: george76
worthless degrees

Disagree. I wouldn't give back a second of my education, and am considering going back and getting a bit more.
20 posted on 10/24/2009 12:01:04 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: centurion316

First let’s send all our lawyers overseas.


21 posted on 10/24/2009 12:03:16 PM PDT by satan
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To: george76
Long ago I got a BA in History. I had a lot of fun getting it, but I've never used it. My niece just started college and she's majoring in history. I took my brother aside and said: "Bad idea. It will not help her and it will cost you and arm and a leg. You need to tell her that you will pay for a useful college degree, but not a Liberals Arts degree. I've been there -- I know what I'm talking about."

My brother just shrugged. He is, after all, a barking moonbat.

22 posted on 10/24/2009 12:04:10 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Play the Race Card -- lose the game.)
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To: RnMomof7

A lot of the seemingly low pay overseas is due to mispriced currency. Guys in India making $50K can live as well as they can in California on 100K. Housing in India is high if you have to buy, but the rents are amazing cheap. You can get a nice two-bedroom apartment for $200 a month.


23 posted on 10/24/2009 12:04:57 PM PDT by proxy_user
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To: BunnySlippers

That is not true. MBA programs are still placing the majority of their students.

Its a wakeup call for liberal arts students. They are unemployable.

Hard science? That is bull. Our better universities are producing excellent students. Perhaps Ohio State University isn’t, it that twit’s opinion, ...

BUT the real problem with US students is their lack of work ethic. They are, for the most part, lazy and think they are entitled to employment and not having to work.

Obama is making it worse. Its ALL about entitlements and being lazy. Now he wants all these losers who can’t get into college now to get financial aid to jam our universities with even more stupid and lazy students.

Would Obama have actually gotten into Columbia, Harvard (or even Occidental) on his own merits? Probably not.


24 posted on 10/24/2009 12:06:05 PM PDT by whitedog57
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To: mysterio
When they started giving out degrees to people like Obama based on their skin color, a degree became worthless.

The degrees most blacks get are not worth the ink they are printed with.

It's like hiring someone with an honorary doctorate to run your science lab.

25 posted on 10/24/2009 12:08:57 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied, the economy died)
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To: george76

I want a burger alarm company..!!


26 posted on 10/24/2009 12:09:21 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Obama's a self-made man who worships his own creator...............)
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To: RnMomof7

Bingo!!!!


27 posted on 10/24/2009 12:10:22 PM PDT by Rays_Dad (H. Clinton-Every man who looks at her is reminded of his first wife, even if he's never been married)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Having shared courses with people of all races, I disagree with your race-based conclusions.


28 posted on 10/24/2009 12:12:09 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: Osage Orange

8-)

you read the comments


29 posted on 10/24/2009 12:14:49 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: BunnySlippers
I met two lovely young 20-somethings in a dining group I belong to. Both ready to get their MBAs. Didn't have the heart to tell them that their degrees were close to worthless.

They are fortunate that people doing the hiring and firing don't hold your view.

30 posted on 10/24/2009 12:14:49 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: AndyJackson
“I think they will discover that they have incentivized their own personnel problems.”

I agree. Further, the type of ‘reform’ that Obama wants to force on health care will lead to a reduction in incentive for drug development in the US, and commensurately the incentive to pursue careers in science will also diminish.

We shouldn't be looking for ways to convince people to live overseas. We should be looking for ways to kick the rear ends of these other countries economically. Of course, at the same time that we need more incentive in our system to encourage risk taking and hard work, the Obama administration and his liberal fans are taking away incentive by punishing the successful.

And liberals think they are smart. Go figure.

31 posted on 10/24/2009 12:17:01 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: whitedog57

Nobody who gets an engineering degree (and the same could said about a host of other degrees from Sciences, Math, Finance, etc) from a reputable college is lazy. They would done in by Freshman Calculus, Chemistry, and/or Physics.

You need to look no further than what the makeup of majors looks like from a typical U.S. University as opposed to one in India. I don’t think they even have Liberal Arts departments. On U.S. campuses the hard (vocational type) degrees are in the minority.


32 posted on 10/24/2009 12:18:02 PM PDT by exhaustguy
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To: george76

33 posted on 10/24/2009 12:18:42 PM PDT by matt1234
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To: centurion316

I wouldn’t want to undermine my conservative cred, but... money isn’t everything. I have two kids, one a few years out of a great Liberal Arts college with a degree in English Lit who’s working for a big company with a mouse for a logo doing on line “game and community management editorial”, whatever the hell that is. (She has several IT degree holders under her.) My son is almost finished at a great books college, St. John’s. I trust he’ll find a way to make enough money to support the life he wants to live which, at this point, seems to be a life of the mind.


34 posted on 10/24/2009 12:21:17 PM PDT by SoCalRight
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To: SteamShovel

LSIT here, subdivision and other boundary work (my specialty) is down but there is always a need for quality as-builts and staking. I went to a community college 2 year civil program and received and education qualifying me for numerous jobs including inspection, QC, and even construction engineer positions without necessarily moving. All for about 2-5% of what these degrees cost. A piece of paper isn’t necessarily worth much in the real world...JFK


35 posted on 10/24/2009 12:24:32 PM PDT by BADROTOFINGER (Life sucks. Get a helmet.)
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To: Gondring

Well, I hire and fire. And I have 44 years of work experience. I have seen MBAs get in my field and have absolutely no practical experience.

In other areas not as specialized as mine, there may be more mileage from advanced degrees.


36 posted on 10/24/2009 12:28:09 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: george76

bookmark


37 posted on 10/24/2009 12:28:23 PM PDT by GOP Poet (Obama is an OLYMPIC failure.)
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To: C19fan
Multinationals like to hire foreigneers because they are cheap labor.

You have "cheap" confused with "hard working" and "dedicated". The actual term that sums it all up is "hungry", which means they want more challenges, not less.

Too many Americans feel a sense of entitlement.

38 posted on 10/24/2009 12:29:48 PM PDT by SampleMan (No one should die on a gov. waiting list., or go broke because the gov. has dictated their salary.)
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To: Osage Orange
I want a burger alarm company..!!


39 posted on 10/24/2009 12:35:27 PM PDT by The Comedian (Evil can only succeed if good men don't point at it and laugh.)
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To: BunnySlippers

They would have be better off having a technical undergrad degree with an MBA.


40 posted on 10/24/2009 12:36:26 PM PDT by DarthVader (Liberalism is the politics of EVIL whose time of judgment has come.)
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To: george76
any degree with a Something Studies degree is worthless and might better spent the money going to bar tending school...
41 posted on 10/24/2009 12:39:23 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: george76

Universities often consider private markets unpleasant or yucky. For this reason they teach courses that often have little to do with real markets; the outlook of the professors and the syllabi reflect this.

The more a prof eschews market, the more he is worthy of academic dignity and legitimacy.

Is it any wonder that those who graduate cannot market themselves, or compete in that market? No.

The solution is to bring universities to the market, which means moving it all ONLINE. The only complication would be LABS —noting more.


42 posted on 10/24/2009 12:41:50 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: SampleMan

I spent most of my career working overseas and found it more challenging, fulfilling and enjoyable than working in the States. Money was sometimes but not always higher than the US and the challenge and rewards of adapting to other cultures and ways of doing things were of great appeal.

After nearly 40 years and work on 5 continents I can say the best place was (the old) South Africa and the worst (although a great place to live) where I saw more corruption and shoddy work in public heavy construction than in any (other) 3rd world country.

As for wages, generally now European wages are higher than US as are living costs.


43 posted on 10/24/2009 12:48:22 PM PDT by slorunner
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To: AndyJackson
What do they pay a mid-career biomed technician? What do they pay a mid-career PhD biochemist with a solid track record of pharmaceutical development? What do they pay the MBA's/JDs in their finance, marketing and government relations departments? I think they will discover that they have incentivized their own personnel problems.

You NAILED it! An absolutely brilliant statement. I see this first hand. In the United States the fastest way to economic mediocrity is a Engineering or Science degree. Yes you will be able to get a job but you will level off in pay after a period of time unless you go into management.

I have two engineering degrees from a excellent University and I've seen people who sell real estate make a lot more money than me. I know people I use to help with their math in school make 2-3X more money in banking, finance, marketing, etc. So you are right. Corporations want technical workers with advanced degrees who will work 60 hours a week. They want to pay them low wages. They want to keep them in mid level jobs and then after 20 years of so, they want to replace them with new people.

If corporations want more engineers and scientists, they they should reward these professions, and then there won't be a problem with supply.
44 posted on 10/24/2009 1:01:36 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough!)
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To: slorunner

I spent almost my entire career working overseas,,mostly in Asia as an expat engineer/marketer. Now most of the jobs are being filled by foreigners, because there are more foreign engineers and US tax law(we tax our expats) disfavors US citizens. It is cheaper to hire a foreigner because they only pay local taxes.
It is also hard to find US citizens now that are willing to work in the developing world even with great perks, pay and contracts. Much harder if you want engineers.


45 posted on 10/24/2009 1:04:19 PM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: slorunner

I spent almost my entire career working overseas,,mostly in Asia as an expat engineer/marketer. Now most of the jobs are being filled by foreigners, because there are more foreign engineers and US tax law(we tax our expats) disfavors US citizens. It is cheaper to hire a foreigner because they only pay local taxes.
It is also hard to find US citizens now that are willing to work in the developing world even with great perks, pay and contracts. Much harder if you want engineers.


46 posted on 10/24/2009 1:10:49 PM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: slorunner

I spent almost my entire career working overseas,,mostly in Asia as an expat engineer/marketer. Now most of the jobs are being filled by foreigners, because there are more foreign engineers and US tax law(we tax our expats) disfavors US citizens. It is cheaper to hire a foreigner because they only pay local taxes.
It is also hard to find US citizens now that are willing to work in the developing world even with great perks, pay and contracts. Much harder if you want engineers.


47 posted on 10/24/2009 1:12:29 PM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: george76
In my years (70’s) hiring professionals for an industrial plant, I found regional universities did the best job. Engineering, Business Adm and industrial technologies/management degrees were a good fit for first level management openings and bottom level positions in engineering and administration. Also, it seemed the top grads academically had a more difficult time working in groups and teams.
48 posted on 10/24/2009 1:25:24 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: george76

PING for later reading.


49 posted on 10/24/2009 1:30:42 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO Foreign Nationals as our President!!)
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To: george76

PING for later reading.


50 posted on 10/24/2009 1:30:45 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO Foreign Nationals as our President!!)
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