For fiscal conservatives, nothing will change until we form another political party

Early '10 Lessons from '09 Disasters ^ | 10-15-2009 | Conn Carroll

[DavidFarrar]

Poltico's Jonathan Martin reports:

"The surging campaign of third-party candidate Chris Daggett has turned the New Jersey governor's race into a dead-heat and left Republicans divided over the seriousness of the threat he poses to GOP nominee Chris Christie."

The Hill's Reid Wilson reports:

The House GOP conference is bitterly divided over a centrist New York Republican’s run for the House seat vacated by Army Secretary John McHugh.

"Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava, who backs abortion rights and has voiced support for gay rights, has drawn a challenger from the right who is running on the Conservative Party line. And though House leaders have urged conference members to donate, many have pointedly refused to back Scozzafava."

[DavidFarrar]

What do these two stories have in common? Everything. In both cases the local GOP establishment supported moderate, big government friendly Republicans who they thought stood a better chance of winning a general election.

"In both cases the general election campaigns of these candidates are absolutely floundering."

The lesson: me-too big government GOP moderates are going to get washed away by the same anti-establishment wave that is going to remove them Dems from office in '10.

After reading a few responses, I came across Dean_L's submission which to me put the whole matter into its proper perspective."

"Yes, the GOP has gotten it wrong in many instances. Yes, particularly where they mimic the 'centrist' approach taken by McCain in 2008. No doubt these are some serious errors."

"BUT....

"I've seen first hand what the consequences are of dividing the vote. Not good. Not good at all.

"What it comes down to, is that every conservative voter going into the booth on election day has to vote not their conscience but strategically. While the GOP is not the party of conservatism that they should be, a split vote means a Democrat win. It's the worst of all possible outcomes.

"I'm just saying..."

He's wrong of course. An even worse scenerio would be yet another RINO winning the presidency and therby setting the stage for an even more radical liberal Dem than Obama winning the presidency afterwards.

So the question we fiscal conservatives faced in the last election, and the four before that, remains. Even if Sarah Palin wins the party's nomination, at present an unlikely event, and we fiscal conservatives swarm over to the Republican ticket to support her, nothing will really change

I am afraid nothing will change until we find another party to carry our banner...with or without Ms. Palin

          ex animo

          davidfarrar

[Man50D]

The OP(formerly the GOP) and the RATs are two sides of the same coin thanks to the former intent on expanding its voter base by incrementally appeasing socialism at the expense of Conservatives. They are essentially one big socialist Republicrat party. Another party will be a second party. These two are examples of how a conservative party is on the rise.

[B-Chan]

You are absolutely right. I’d rather have an enemy in the White House or Governor’s Mansion than a “friend” who won’t fight for our side.

I’m done with the Republicans. If that means the Democrats win every election from now on, so be it. From now on, I vote for the conservative candidate, or nobody.

[Kansas58]

If you can not win a PRIMARY election -—

You have ZERO chances at winning the GENERAL election!

Third Party ideas are for moon bats and nut cases, it won’t work, it will only serve to elected DEMOCRATS!!

[Randy Larsen]

The GOP belongs to the conservative base!

I’m fighting with all my will.

[Man50D]

Third Party ideas are for moon bats and nut cases, it won’t work, it will only serve to elected DEMOCRATS!!

The OP has done a great job of that over the years thanks to their big tent mentality.

[DTogo]

A third party also has to have a viable candidate(s) with Conservative principles.

[mimaw]

The same nutty thinking gave us Clinton and in 2006 gave the house and senate to the rats.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

If you can not win a PRIMARY election

It's very difficult to win a primary when the GOP establishment is sticking their noses in the race and backing the non-conservative candidate.

You have ZERO chances at winning the GENERAL election!

In this age of Tea Parties and voters angry at both parties, anything's possible. Just because people are mad at Obama doesn't mean they're going to automatically support Republicans.

Third Party ideas are for moon bats and nut cases

Until they cost the GOP candidate the win, then they're to blame, right? The people at the Tea Parties are the very people you describe.

it won’t work, it will only serve to elected DEMOCRATS!!

But of course. That's the overall goal. I would rather have a leftist Democrat in power than a leftist Republican. Here's a suggestion: Try acting like conservatives, reach out to the small libertarians, and you won't have this problem to begin with.

[DTogo]

Third Party ideas are for moon bats and nut cases, it won’t work, it will only serve to elected DEMOCRATS!!

As opposed to GOP moderates who want to do nothing but "reach across the aisle" and work with Democrats?

Yeah, that (R) makes such a big difference....

[editor-surveyor]

This has to be the stupidest post of the month!

We can do nothing without the power of an organized party. - We have ti kill this third party insanity before more brains rot to mush. Third party advocates have no political knowledge, nor skills, and all they know is they don’t like their chioces.

Well, if you don’t like your choices, get active in the party. - Don’t look for simplistic solutions, because there aren’t any.

[Fu-fu2]

People need to read up on the history of third party movements before calling for such. The problem is we have one party right now. There is a better chance for change by working to reform the party closest to our ideals.

[sickoflibs]

third party ??? It seems that way now. but it may just be that :
1) voters need more time with democrats,
2) republicans need more time with losing

We still need gridlock in 2010 and Rs will pick up seats so hopefully that will be it.

Long term third party is probably a loser as Rush says. My thoughts are that everything takes time, Rs had their big 6-8 year (GWB)chance , after having congress for 6 years before that. It will take time for things to flip back. The voters have to change too. That means democrats must be seen as failing and that cant happen immediately. There is just no quick fix (last Fall McCain or die-ers like Hannity thought Bill Ayers was the quick fix.)

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

I’m done with the Republicans.

I'm not - I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are some fine conservative Republicans who deserve our support.

[editor-surveyor]

"Third Party ideas are for moon bats and nut cases, it won’t work, it will only serve to elected DEMOCRATS!!"

Bravo! (why did I have to read to the fourth post to hear a sensible statement?)

[SoCalPol]

New Jersey as Calif. are liberal states
you will not have a conservative win a state race.
Today, Reagan could not win in Calif. as Gov.

It would take a brain dead person not to see that third party candidates facilitate democrat victories.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

The same nutty thinking gave us Clinton and in 2006 gave the house and senate to the rats.

Bush I gave us Clinton and Bush's II liberal big spending policies gave us the Dem Congress. Stop blaming voters for not supporting statist politicians.

[editor-surveyor]

"The GOP belongs to the conservative base!"

Amen!

[SoCalPol]

Perot gave us Clinton

[editor-surveyor]

Third party thinking gave us Clinton.

Third party thinking will keep Democrats in control of congress too.

[Gene Eric]

>> The same nutty thinking gave us ...

Indeed. Where would we be today had Perot stayed out of it? I think many, many things would be different.

[editor-surveyor]

"The people at the Tea Parties are the very people you describe"

That is nonsense! The tea parties have been solidly Republican.

[Man50D]

We can do nothing without the power of an organized party.

That certainly doesn't describe the OP wing of the Republicrat party.

We have ti kill this third party insanity before more brains rot to mush.

There will not be a third party considering we have one big socialist Republicrat party thanks to the OP incrementally merging its political ideology with the socialist RATs. Insanity is sticking with a party who implements the same big tent, reach out across the aisle, in the spirit of bipartisanship strategy year after year. It's the political version of battered wife syndrome.

Well, if you don’t like your choices, get active in the party. - Don’t look for simplistic solutions, because there aren’t any.

Conservatives are getting active with their own party as evident by the tea parties. Your party is dying on the vine.

[awin]

You will ensure democrats victories with a third party. Watch the race in NJ- the independent ONLY takes votes from Republican thus ensuring the dems win. If a dem win in NJ its because the he moved republican votes. There is no answer to this problem that involves a third party- I used to think that a third party was the answer too!

[Man50D]

That is nonsense! The tea parties have been solidly Republican.

That's a bunch of BS! I've been to several tea parties and the people are disgusted with Republicans and Democrats.

[Man50D]

You will ensure democrats victories with a third party.

That's under the false assumption we have two distinct parties. Regardless of that fact, The OP party leaders ensured the country going further down the socialist path in the last elections. You people need to stop blaming those who refuse the socialist light path.

Watch the race in NJ- the independent ONLY takes votes from Republican thus ensuring the dems win.

You need a new campaign slogan. That tired old guilt trip line is not working on Conservatives.

[Lurkina.n.Learnin]

I thought this at one time. Yes, thank me for Bill Clinton, I voted for Ross Perot.

[USAFJeeper]

I was about to post that. Ross Perot certainly helped us out with that whole third party idea.

Its ok, My secret shame is that I was politically unaware in 1980 and voted for.. Carter... I pay penance on that daily.

[gogogodzilla]

So stop voting Republican... for it isn’t a party at all, but a wholly-owned subsidary of the Democrat party.

[gogogodzilla]

We can do nothing without the power of an organized party. - We have ti kill this third party insanity before more brains rot to mush. Third party advocates have no political knowledge, nor skills, and all they know is they don’t like their chioces.

Actually, this just sounds like the talk of someone used to the priviledge of power now afraid they might lose it.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

The tea parties have been solidly Republican.

No, the Tea Party participants are largely made up of folks who supported Ron Paul in 2008. Independents, small libertarians, and working-class Democrats. In fact, the (new) Tea Parties began on December 16th, 2007 as a Paul fundraiser in honor of the 1775 original.

They're about as Republican as Olympia Snowe.

[TruthHound]

Lucy = Republicans

The football = Candidates like like McCain, Graham, Snowe, Aaahnold...

I’m over being your Charlie Brown.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Perot gave us Clinton

Bull. Perot simply tapped into the voter anger over spending, jobs going overseas, free trade, and deficits (sounds familiar?). Bush I had the highest approval rating shortly after the Gulf War and could have gotten anything passed. He squandered his own legacy and gave us Clinton.

STOP BLAMING THE VOTERS!

[Kansas58]

Nonsense!
The Republican Party, in Congress, is far more conservative now than it has been in 30 years!

[SoCalPol]

In most states, people who vote for candidates are called voters.

[gorilla_warrior]

The GOP is a sham party that exists only to provide an illusion of choice. The two-party system is illegitimate. Inevitably, the weaker party becomes a clone of the stronger party. One solution would be to allow parties to exist, but to prohibit any party identification for candidates for public office, to prohibit the government at any level from identifying the party affiliation of any candidate on election materials, and to prohibit candidate party identification in any advertising. In other words, all elections would be non-partisan.

[gorilla_warrior]

The tea parties have been solidly Republican.
Sorry, the GOP has done nothing to identify itself with the tea parties, and I have seen nothing at any of the tea parties identifying the GOP. Thank God. The Tea Party movement does not need a bunch of loser liberal RINOs dragging it down.

[MrEdd]

I have zero interest now or ever, in not vigorously opposing every candidate who is not socially, militarily, and fiscally conservative. All three are asolute requirements.

[EternalVigilance]

The first step in saving our free republic is for conservatives to return to the core non-negotiable principles our form of government and our liberty are predicated upon. The second step is for those loyal, patriotic Americans to put mere party labels aside and begin to make their electoral decisions based only on those principles.

[usacon]

The Dems would Love a conservative third party. Let’s not guarantee 8 yrs for BO. Go GOP.

[editor-surveyor]

Sorry, you’ve got it backwards.

The RNC isn’t the GOP, the tea party participants are.

[editor-surveyor]

“The Dems would Love a conservative third party. Let’s not guarantee 8 yrs for BO. Go GOP.”

Precisely!

Third party means Obama for life.

[editor-surveyor]

And people that push conservative third parties are called Democrat shills.

[editor-surveyor]

No question in my mind any more, you work for Obama, Pelosi & Reid Inc.

If you’ve been to a tea party, it was on a union pay check!

[Cold Heat]

I don't agree.

I admit that at times I want to leave the party, but those moments don't last long before reality sets in.

We simply don't have the numbers to populate and properly support a separate party and that is why we are repubs or vote repub.

There is a interesting anomaly that has developed called the independent. They can't and never will vote as a block, but both majors are looking at them and taking notice now like never before.

Obama has made a fatal error in ignoring them for the sake of the liberal base which by my count is much smaller. He will be a one term-er as a result, and may never finish this one.

If you want, you can become one of these independents as they hold the election power, but they have no central core. The Republican Party does have a core, but it has shifted left along with the beltway. We can drag them back kicking and screaming by withholding support. It's the only way and we must realize that we will never get 100% of what we want in a coalition, but we will get access to power. We can't get that access any other way.

[EternalVigilance]

America's Independent Party

[Lurkina.n.Learnin]

“And people that push conservative third parties are called Democrat shills.”

Exactly.From Wikipedia

“Clinton won the 1992 presidential election (43.0% of the vote) against Republican incumbent George H. W. Bush (37.4% of the vote) and billionaire populist Ross Perot, who ran as an independent (18.9% of the vote) on a platform focusing on domestic issues”

[EternalVigilance]

And people that push conservative third parties are called Democrat shills.

Never shilled for a Democrat in my life. Your statement is simply untrue.

Independent conservatives like myself are still supporting rock-solid, truly conservative, Republicans for public office. Don't make us change our minds or you'll never win again.

[MissouriConservative]

“And people that push conservative third parties are called Democrat shills.”

Sorry, don’t buy it. I’m done with the GOP. I’ve been a Republican since the late 1970s when I was but a child. I worked to get Reagan re-elected in 1984 when I was 15 years old. I manned phonelines at the county party headquarters after school and on weekends.

The GOP left me, I didn’t leave it. The first Bush began to lose me when he violated what his lips said. I worked to get the Republicans control of congress in 1994. I survived the Clinton years because Conservatives kept most of him at bay. Then came Bush the younger. I cried along with everyone on Sept. 11th. Bush the younger seemed to be Conservative. Turns out, he wasn’t. He was further left than his father. I was ashamed of the GOP because they were suduced by the power of DC. They became like the democrats, emulated them. The only reason I held my nose and voted for McLame was Mrs. Palin.

No more. Our founding fathers did not decide to “fight from within” but to form a new nation. Those who wanted to change things from within were then called loyalists. There is coming a time when you will either be called a patriot or a loyalist.

From now on, I vote for Conservatives, if that’s a GOP candidate, fine. If it’s not, then they won’t get my vote simply because of an “R” after their name. Look at all the great Rs we have now...Snowe, Collins, Graham, McCain...yeah..that’s a group of bedrock Conservatives all right. And no, I won’t be made to feel guilty with lame insults like “you’re a democrat shill.” Name calling went out with high school, although it is still used by liberals (and no, I’m calling you a liberal).

[Lurkina.n.Learnin]

“Bernard “Bernie” Sanders (born September 8, 1941) is the junior United States Senator from Vermont, elected on November 7, 2006. Before becoming Senator, Sanders represented Vermont’s at-large district in the United States House of Representatives for 16 years.

Sanders is a self-described democratic socialist, but because he does not belong to a formal political party, he appears as an independent on the ballot. He is the first person elected to the U.S. Senate to identify as a socialist.[1] Sanders caucuses with the Democratic Party and is counted as a Democrat for the purposes of committee assignments. He was also the only independent member of the House during much of his service there. He is one of two independent Senators in the 111th Congress, along with Joe Lieberman. Sanders left the House in order to run in the 2006 election for the Senate seat being vacated by retiring fellow independent Jim Jeffords and won the election with 65% of the vote.[2]”

Some real nice Independant company.