“Article in Nairobi Paper June 2004 - Barack born in Africa
Posted on 10/15/2009 8:44:33 AM PDT by steve-b
Okay okay, one final birther story. Unfortunately for the true believers your leader, Orly Taitz, was fined $20,000 for mis-use of the legal system. Justice Clay Land wrote a 43 page order railing against Ms. Taitz and warned her against misusing the court system to push purely political agendas. You can read the order here (it's pretty scathing).
For any who are not familiar with Orly Taitz, she is one of the leaders of the so-called birther movement who has sought to have the legitimacy of President Obama's election over-turned through the claim that he never provided a true birth certificate and that he was actually not born in Hawaii, but in Kenya (or some variation on that general theory).
Not one to give up, Taitz has kept her fight up to this day, filing lawsuits and generally hectoring Obama with these claims in any way she can. Judge Land just had enough apparently. He said the $20,000 fine is "a deterrent to prevent future misconduct and to protect the integrity of the court."
Here's the thing, basically the first thing they taught us in law school was Rule 11 of the Rules of Civil Procedure. Under Rule 11 lawyers may not engage in frivolous actions, waste the courts time or mis- use legal proceedings simply to annoy people. I think it was arguable that after the first birther suit got thrown out of court before Obama was even nominated the question was settled. To have kept up in this manner for nearly a year after he was elected is just beyond crazy.
Hey Taitz, you lost, move on! You can't go around accusing Presidents of not being citizens without some real proof, and that's exactly what you have, a lack of proof. Move on with your life!
Of course she won't. The birthers are the Right's version of the truthers on the left. These people don't know the meaning of quit. 50 years from now I'm sure of 3 things: 1) People will still think there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, 2)People will think there was a conspiracy and Bush was some how involved in 9/11, 3)People will still think Obama was really born in Kenya and not a citizen of the United States.
We have no leader.....that’s part of the problem.
In the nutty world we live in, a request to see the birth certificate is the highest form of insanity.
This reversal of the sane with the insane has been remarkably effective.
Just keep posting the same article day after day after day after day.
No one will notice.
It’s a shame when supposedly conservative commentators are indistinguishable from David Brock.
I kind of liken the birthers to people accusing Clinton of having oral sex with an intern in the oval office, except she had the dress washed.
A difficult case to prove. Sometimes one must choose their battles.
It’s also a shame when folks get so wrapped up in a cause that they can’t see what is wrong with someone like Orly leading them along. I’m sorry, but she is a train wreck in progress. The better the birther movement tosses her aside, the better for them.
I sure thought that the burden of proof belonged to the elected President to establish his Natural Born credentials, not that they were automatically assumed and had to be proven false.
But, hey, I'm not a lawyer, so I know what the meaning of "is" is without having to go to court about it.
Notwithstanding, how else can a president be compelled to produce a relevant document if not by a court action? And is doing so necessarily "political" or "frivolous?"
And does anybody really trust judges anymore?
LOL
Oh yeah.
Let’s set up a moral equivalency to show how the “Birthers” who feel that the constitutional standard of proof has not been met are exactly the same as the “truthers” who think that the President, Vice President and others arranged the murders of thousands of Americans by arranging planes to fly into buidings that had been wired with demolition explosives beforehand.
Nice job all. Even less intellectual rigor than the “so called birthers”.
Perhaps. But there is no “movement”. there have been dozens of suits filed, but many different folks who don’t or didn’t know each other from adam. There are also thousands of independent folks continuing to research the subject. She just happens to be good at getting publicity, for better and for worse. And it won’t matter what anyone thinks about her if just one of these cases goes to discovery, whether hers or any else’s.
“50 years from now I’m sure of 3 things: 1) People will still think there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, 2)People will think there was a conspiracy and Bush was some how involved in 9/11, 3)People will still think Obama was really born in Kenya and not a citizen of the United States.”
The difference is that we’ll be right...he’s an illegal.
So what did past presidents do to establish their natural-born credentials?
Nominated by Hardastarboard for FR quote of the month. I would add "Or Prosecutors?"
This guy is supposedly a Right winger? He sounds like the brain damaged Joy Behar.
Soetoro's whole strategy was to hold off the questions until after he got elected, by which time he knew it would be virtually impossible to challenge him.
"You can't sue until you have damages, which means after the election" blah blah, all the convenient little road blocks.
And Taitz is nuts? Ever seen the Doc who says she's seen the BC? If she isn't an Anti-American nut case, dunno who is.
I'm sure she has seen it. I'm also 99% sure she would lie about what she saw to get back at America (she's half Japanese, half native Hawaiian - can you say, "grudge group"?), and also that the Dims got to her and made sure she knew that something will be done for her if she says the right things.
Orly Taitz may not be the right standard bearer, but that doesn't mean she's wrong, just that the so called leadership of the Stupid Party is neutered.
Funny I don’t recall all the name calling when the same burden of proof was demanded of McCain and he met it.
And I'm sure the people in 1 and 2 will be convinced they're right, too.
Filing poorly-written briefs and getting judges mad at her will never get anything to discovery. It's painful to read her filings - I'm not a lawyer but know a few of 'em, have read a few briefs in my time as a result, and hers have to be the worst I have ever seen.
I was skeptical at first, but given how inexplicably secretive the Annointed One is and the cost of the fight to keep all of his records sealed you have to wonder what they are hiding.
The kids I coach have to provide a bc to prove their ages even...
I hope that the other judge allows discovery to proceed.
She's also a really bad lawyer, unfortunately. Too many people get wrapped up in a cult mentality about her, and that's when it starts to go downhill.
Is it more or less painful and or insane than reading the Cap and Tax Bill, or the Stimulus Bills, or any one of the manifold Health Care bills? Or any speech by Obama, or regulation issued out of his offices?
Just how should a Judge decide — on style points, or truth?
“The difference is that we’ll be right...he’s an illegal.”
based upon the fact that you birthers have a lot of suspicions....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_DEtfvv9MU
parsy, who don’t believe it sometimes
Would you want a demonstrably bad mechanic working on your car? You really need to look at Orly with a critical eye. I'm neutral on this matter, I'm not pro nor anti birther, but Orly transcends that - in the wrong way. It is too easy for spin doctors to trash your cause with someone like Orly as its face.
BTW, just about every profession has basic guidelines for submitting documents. And the more you deviate from those guidelines, the worse off you are. Throw in the overall weakness of Orly's arguments (such as the claim that Judge Carter had a conflict of interest because of two stocks that he owned), and she has neither style nor substance. That's the entire problem here.
What did you do to help her?
I’ve read many briefs. I’ve read many decisions. I’ve seen judges take up frivolous with alarming regularity. I’ve seen grotesque politics from the bench. I’ve noticed that most lawyers are as stupid as a box of rocks. I’ve seen the SCOTUS make irrational, unconstitutional decisions over and over. I’ve seen political correctness trump state constitutions. I’ve seen activist lawyers with NO BUSINESS being promoted to the SCOTUS and federal bench. I’ve read up on tainted trials, corrupt judges, judges masturbating under their cloaks. I’ve seen slimy liberal power lawyers lie through their teeth.
And I’ve seen a marxist quisling lawyer obfuscate his entire past so he could pretend to be President.
As far as I know, there are only three cases where Natural Born citizenship has been called into question.
In Chester Arthur’s case, I haven’t done enough reading to understand whether or not his birth place and date were lies or mistakes. I just don’t know.
In Mcain’s case, he was examined as a candidate with Congress ruling in his favor.
In Obama’s case, there is no objective verifyable evidence of his US Natural Born citizenship yet there is substantial doubt to it.
I am not aware of any other candidate who’s citizenship status was even in doubt or would have had difficulty providing documentation if requested. Many of them had their citizenship status verified upon elistment or commissioning in the the US military.
Doesn’t the Constitution require the elected president to prove his eligibility?
Obama can make this all go away by simply holding a press conference with an official actual birth certificate.
I have to provide credentials for my employment, he is no better and must as well.
Why would I help a bad lawyer? What kind of question is that?
Like I said earlier, I'm neutral here, I'm not pro or anti - I think a more relevant issue is to hit on Obama's lack of transparency about his entire past. But regarding someone who is at the forefront of the birther movement, I've giving what I consider to be frank, neutral advice about Orly. You may do with it as you wish.
Gee! Yeah! How “annoying”! We the people would like to know if our emperor is indeed a natural born citizen.
The Birthers are going around making themselves look like idiots, and making other Obama critics look like idiots by association. Why the hell would he WANT that to go away?
If you think your own thread has so little value, then I’ll go look for an old Revski post, or maybe something crevo.
I haven’t centered on any of the individual cases. I just keep an interested eye on all of them.
One of the more interesting stories I’ve seen was one that was pulled from FR due to copywrite issues this morning. It was a Honolulu paper story from 06 that described Obama as an indonesian immigrant done good.
I think those interested and digging on the BC issue should take a lesson from O’Keefe, Giles, and the writers of “Muslim Mafia”. Do the digging, collect and archive the info, then get together to combine relevant info and drop it all like a bomb.
There has been a lot of scrubbing being done and I doubt it would happen if Obozo and pals didn’t take a lead from us “birthers” on what needs to disappear.
When so called journalists/ACORN fungi demand the search for the truth about a lying bastard sitting in the White House be instantly dropped because the forgeries must be accepted as valid and nothing else will be examined for authenticity, it's a sure bet the fraud the journo worships is starting to sweat.
Barry's kneepad sycophants are even shrugging of the numerous lies told by their obamessiah, as if his continuous lying and deception is nothing to consider as evidence he is a fraud. Echoes of fascist Germany as the Weimar Republic was being rolled up come to mind. Obamascum are making such a stinky floating around Freerepublic ...
'Hunting season' after the criminals destroy the Republic also comes to mind, because no one seems to know how to build the needed guillotine which could shut down the domestic enemedia working so hard to destroy we the people sovereignty via lies and misdirection like this idiot piece heading this thread.
My critique here is entirely about Orly, who has managed to put herself forth as a spokeperson for the cause. IMO she’s a really bad one.
Gee! But... according to the author of this editorial to ask that Obama do that would be “annoying”, you see.
Understood and can't defend her on technical merits.
However, she is a citizen, she has a cause, she has courage and tenacity, something the professionally qualified lawyers seem to lack.
Yeah, it would be great if someone could guide her a bit (assuming she'd accept it) but who? When?
At what point do we resign ourselves to tilting at windmills and subsequently resign ourselves to lives of subjugation?
Look, that may be, that her pleadings are not good. I do not know. I haven’t seen enough of a mix of legal pleadings as a layman in occasional contact with various layers of the legal system. I do know I have read some really crazy court transcripts in criminal cases (and watched a few actual cases too)— and not just the criminals, but the attorneys on both sides. And sometimes the magistrates.
Orly’s pleadings fall within the bounds of those I have seen, in as much as I have read a few as a layman.
Yet what is a Judge to do? Should not a Judge make the best case for all parties at these early stages, especially in cases where the public trust is at risk, or in the case of hard case criminals when the DA messes up, or on the side of a normal citizen in good standing when the defense attorney messes up? I mean strictly at the early stages — the discovery phases in this particular situation?
And what is a commentator like you or I to do? Should we weaken those on our own side by hectoring, complaining or lamenting? What good to any of those? Stay silent if the comment is unhelpful, and just a complaint — isn’t that a better way?
Courage and tenacity without ability are pretty much worthless, as is ability without courage and tenacity.
Yeah, it would be great if someone could guide her a bit (assuming she'd accept it) but who? When?
Someone in the movement with either the ability to practice law or the means to pay for someone with such will need to step forward. You won't get anywhere with someone like Orly - to the contrary, she is making your case more difficult with each passing week.
A judge has made a ruling and fined a lawyer on an issue he refuses to look into and allow discovery on.
Does this judge think he operates with a crystal ball??
Same reason your marxist hero claimed he barely knew Bill Ayers and that he wrote his own book, when in fact neither is true.
All to get idiots like you to hump his marxist leg.
At some point, a bad lawyer like Orly does far more harm than good to a cause. I think that point has been reached now. Where to go from here will be difficult for the birthers to resolve, because Orly put herself at the front of the parade. But birthers just can't pretend that the direction is OK because the cause is just, or else you'll end up like that marching band in Animal House.
In a nonbinding resolution. The few lawsuits that were filed to challenge McCain's eligibility, one in New Hampshire and I believe one in California, were both dismissed due to lack of standing on the part of the plaintiffs. The same fate that Obama birther suits have been suffering.
But the long and short if that McCain was no more obligated to present a birth certificate as Obama was to present a COLB. But having done so, both did more than the law requires to prove eligibilitiy. Which is also more than any other President or presidential candidate has done.
Doesn’t the Constitution require the elected president to prove his eligibility?
Where?
Obama can make this all go away by simply holding a press conference with an official actual birth certificate.
These cases have been going away on their own as judges dismiss them.
Either he has the power to make it go away or he doesn’t.
Either way, then next question is “why”?
IMO, those that actively work against Orly or any other so called birther action are actually working for Obama.
Again, IMO, if one doesn’t want to be on board the birther train, fine, stand aside and watch.
After all this time, C/conservative anti-birthers aren’t going to stop the train. Nor should they want to....they should be willing to let others do the work so that they can come in and take the credit later as if they were on it all along.
Were you in support of the clinton impeachment?
If so, how did you feel about those naysaying C/conservatives?
If not, how did you feel when clinton was actually impeached? Maybe wishing you’d worked more for it instead of against it?
A judge has made a ruling and fined a lawyer on an issue he refuses to look into and allow discovery on.
Does this judge think he operates with a crystal ball??
Taitz and the defense made their cases and the judge ruled based on their arguements. And when Taitz went overboard following the ruling then the judge fined her. No crystal ball, just basic procedures. That's the way it goes.
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