Posted on 10/10/2009 8:18:53 PM PDT by RobinMasters
Yeah, but the sharks are still sharks whether you chum or not. The sharks should have been kept on a shorter leash. Read that crashopedia link and you will be amazed how this thing happened. That portfolio article is by the guy who wrote Liars’ Poker. The scheme was criminal in its implementation.
parsy, who can send you more.
Think about it. I know it's a tortured metaphor, but think about it. Think ecology.
Me neither and I am still learning and have a bunch more to understand. But some parts of it are simple. Gramm, Greenspan, and some of Obama’s crew should have known better than to do what they did. They relied on the market to police itself and that just isn’t going to happen over the long haul. never has. never will.
Like the article this thread references, rising asset prices should have been a clue. Putting Glass-Steagall back means banks can be depository banks, like for human beings or they can be investment banks that do all the high finance stuff and are riskier. That means they will not be too big to fail, and if they do they don’t take the whole system with them.
On top of all this, there were side bets on the economy by people who had no interest in the transactions. Like insurance. But whereas the only people who are interested in insuring our house is us and the mortgage company, they let anybody bet on the deal. Imagine if an ex-wife had a bet that your house was going to burn down. And most of this seems to have been off exchanges where nobody knew who had what.
You just have to read up this stuff and those links are good places to start. I’m still trying to understand all the machinations.
parsy.
I am trying to think but I am getting sleepy.
parsy who says it is 3:00 here....
Pffft
So many are out of touch with the level of corruption within the whole central banking system.
“The Creature from Jekyll Island” is one of the few publications that sheds light on the darkness.
We’ve been set up, this is all no accident, and the bankers really don’t give a damn.
Well, you said the sharks should be kept on a leash. Sharks on a leash? Is this a sound idea, even metaphorically?
... sleep? HAH!
Well, that is not exactly overflowing with detail... actually, most were anxious to make deals and money on transactions during this period. The problem is that most of the profit was bogus (through bad real estate deals or the selling of such), so it really does still go back to those the allowed this to happen.
You keep looking at the results of these actions rather that the cause. Yes, there were lots of unscrupulous actions by banks and other institutions because of this. You unfortunately keep blaming those that took advantage of it rather than those that caused it.
I still say that 90% of the problem was government active action in the real estate market which caused banks to actively take on those poor risk loans (because they were backed by government) and eventually put themselves at risk because of these actions. This in turn caused a downturn in the general stock market (because so many large firms invested in sordid real estate loans) which caused a major crash or depression.
Fie on you! I am calling 1-800 INVENTION as we speak, and I bet I get rich with this idea! Leashes for sharks.
parsy, who says cut taxes as soon as I get rich!
Yeah, but that is kinda like a thief blaming his crime on the police not stopping him. Gov’t fell down on the job. (See SEC and Madoff) But that don’t mean gov’t shouldn’t try. Thats why I raise so much heck about this. Attitudes about regulations needs to change from “not necessary” to “absolutely necessary.”
parsy, who is going to bed
Oh, BTW, that crashopedia one is full of detail thru its links.
parsy, who is drooping
Wow... I can’t believe that you are taking the Government failures so lightly - they are the supreme law enforcement group after all... If the supreme law enforcement of the land fails - who do you complain to?
You are sort of right - but fail to see the overall picture and failure of government! This is catastrophic! You just don’t see it yet!
My gosh...Regulations by the ultimate authority (our stupid government) is your aspirations... Heaven help you...
You know...while I was trying to understand YOU... I have to confess that you are a bit of a strange character. An unknown regardless of your long association with Free Republic. I wonder just where you are on most subjects - at this point.
From looking at your previous comments, I would suggest that you are a middle of the road Republican who supports McClain. If I’m wrong, please correct me.
With that, that means that you are NOT a conservative, but a moderate that is trying to belong here.. Where do you belong on the political spectrum - you get to decide?
I don’t take the failures lightly. That is why I gig the GOP every chance I get about their gov’t nihilism. The failure of the police to do their job means you start whomping up on the police. The GOP, however, and is expressed here ad infinitum, don’t like regulations and so they sit around like bumps on a pickle and massively fail to do their job.
And the more they spout off about the “free market” being able to police itself, the more the GOP peanut gallery claps them on the back. It is sick and twisted. If the GOP hasn’t figured out yet that if you leave the market alone they will bankrupt everyone, then they are living in Ayn Rand Fantasy Land.
Read that crashopedia piece. It ought to make you sick how your representatives failed to do their job, which consists of sensible regulation.
Here’s a thought. Quit giving the sorry *ss GOP slackers a free ride. Write them a letter like this:
“Dear Sir,
I have been a Republican for x years. I am sick of hearing you spout off about bad the gov’t is when you are either too stupid, too lazy, or too bought and paid for to do your job. You better get your sorry smug butt to work regulating Wall Street, or next election I am going to vote for whoever runs against you. Do you get it! No more of this no-regulating b*llsh*t.
Sincerely,
Your name”
Imagine the effect of thousands of these letters to the brain dead, knuckle dragging GOP incumbents from their conservative base. From their supporters who they have been shining on for years. I bet you can get their attention.
The democrats ain’t no rocket scientists either, but when one party is just dead set against regulating the Sacred Cow of Capitalism, you gotta expect meltdowns like we just had.
parsy, who had breakfast and is full of energy
On March 15, 2001, I quit the GOP after 30 years and became a democrat when Bush signed off on the Bankruptcy Reform Bill. I posted it here on FR. I thought the bad lenders were being unfairly protected at the cost of real human beings. I even channeled up Ayn Rand from the dead to do post about how lousy the bill was.
Now, 8 1/2 years later we have people like Karl Denninger saying the same thing. Someone asked me why I became a Republican in the first place and my answer was “ because George Wallace got shot.” So I am not some little screaming liberal. I could have been happy with Wallace and a Curtis LeMay type running mate.
Where I see the GOP, which I think has been devolved back to Neanderthalism by its economic Libertarian parasites, is where the liberals were back in the 60s and 70s. They had this little theory that if you just gave money to poor people, because we were a rich nation, that everything would work out just peachy. It was a warm and fuzzy thought and we shouldn’t get mad at them for having it.
What we should get mad at them about is when the illegitimate birth rate among blacks started increasing from the 20%s to the 30%s to the 40%s and still climbing (what about 70% today), the liberals should have woken up. They should have said, “Uh oh, maybe we miscalculated here. Let us revisit our original premise because this is clearly turning into a massive clusterf*ck. We are having children of welfare mothers getting on welfare with illegitimate children of their own.” But no. They could not confront their own flawed theory.
Same with the GOP. They had this little theory that if you just left the markets alone, they would properly regulate themselves, because we were a nation who believes in limited gov’t, and that everything would work out just peachy. It was also a warm and fuzzy thought and we shouldn’t get mad at them for having it. (Heck, I was a Republican then and I had it too)
What we should get mad at them about is when the bubbles started bursting and real wages didn’t keep up with the trickle down theory, and jobs started moving overseas, and the wealthiest Americans doubled or tripled their wealth while most average Americans were having to live on credit cards. The GOP should have woken up. They should have said, “Uh oh, maybe we miscalculated here. Let us revisit our original premise because this is clearly turning into a massive clusterf*ck. We have had an S&L bust, a LTCG bust which nearly took out the economy, a dot.com bust, etc. and clearly the markets can not regulate themselves properly. But no. They could not confront their own flawed theory.
So back to your question. Am I a moderate Republican? No. Technically I am a Democrat now out of disgust at my former party’s stupidity and “liberal-like” thinking, i.e. “let’s never confront our theory, it could never be wrong”. I am a conservative who believes the country is more important than pointy-headed libertarian twits. I am a conservative who is more progressive on the economic issues.
parsy, who hopes that answered your question
Well about all I can say is WOW!... You are so...wrong in your ideals that it is hard to counter...
Yes, the Republicans are a mess and did not even try to uphold their beliefs. Yes the Democrats are MUCH worse and why would you even think about going that route...geez...
Now since you seem to be old (30 years) I can understand a bit why you want the Democrats in charge - support you in your old age, etc... (and they do tend to help out there).. I am also old and needing support - but I would gladly give it all up for some kind of future for my kids!
But really...do you actually believe what you were saying?
Of course markets should be minimally controlled to prevent dishonesty from taking over - seems to be a common problem with mankind, don’t ya think?
But, government takeover or control only makes the government the evil - and they are really good at it! Just look at today’s Congress and Senate to see the results of letting government control our lives and the money system...
You sir, are living in a dream world - not unlike a lot of Democrats that I know...unfortunately. Would be really nice if the world behaved as we would like - not going to happen - so the question is what do you do?
You can take all the money from those that earn it and distribute to all those that “WANT”... good luck with that (the Democratic theory).
Just what makes you think that those that earn won’t give up and do something else? Are you really so stupid to think that these earners will just continue to work so that they can give their earnings to those watching...?
Yes, you are in a world of “let’s just all get along” without any idea about how the world really works! Thank goodness you’re not a Republican - NOW! Don’t think the party could afford you...
You sir, are a TRUE Democrat... Looking for money from those that earn it so that you can live the life that you expect!
If you really want to know why the financial system crashed - look to the government that decided that poverty was no excuse not to own a home. Take that ideal and put into the financial system (Fanny Mae, etc.) and help it along with groups like ACORN and their affiliates - well, a wonderful thing happened...
The so-called astute business groups took a long look at this situation and decided that they could make some money since the government was essentially backing these loans. Well, who wouldn’t! They even decided to sell these “government backed” assets to others to make more money...
Well, you can see yourself where this leads...
Sell now and often... geez... You are one dense fellow actually if you think that the Democrats offer a solution...but that is why I can’t get along with my Democratic girlfriend...so I can somewhat understand your confusion...
Dude, I’m in my mid 50’s. And re-distribution works both ways. I like Reagan. Voted for him twice. But he redistributed from the poor and middle class to the rich. The rich got cash. The poor and middle class got credit cards. Bush II re-distributed from the poor and middle class to the rich. He signed off on Bankruptcy Reform.
parsy, who says think about it
Re-distribution is NOT suppose to be a goal of government!
Just what makes you think that it is? Since you are so engrossed with distribution of wealth - why not go out and earn it... Quit trying to take it from those that do...(The Democratic way)...
Oh, and obviously, you are worried about your future! Don’t blame you but for me it is much more serious (over 60 let’s say) but hate government intervention...and worried about my offspring.
I would not vote for Democrats if they were the only party left - and they might well be without a Democracy. Me, I will fight to the end to uphold the Constitution regardless of party - of which I belong to none...and I might add that neither of our current parties adhere...
Redistribution can not help but be a function of gov’t. If it was every man for himself, you would have no society or civilization. The USA is stronger because of social security, minimum wages, wage and hour laws, worker’s comp, etc. It would be even stronger if the GOP (and the Dems) would regulate the financial markets the way they should be.
I am glad to see you are not a republican. You’re thinking. There is hope for you yet.
parsy, who is inspired
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