Two dead and 19 taken to hospital after falling ill in 'sweatbox' at Arizona spiritual retreat

daily mail ^ | 10th October 2009 | Daily mail

[Charlespg]

Two people died and an estimated 19 others were taken to hospital after being overcome while sitting in a sauna-like sweat lodge at an at a spiritual retreat in Arizona. The lodge at the Sedona resort which is meant to provide spiritual cleansing is now the centre of a police investigation. In all, 21 of the 64 people crowded inside the sweat lodge on Thursday evening for the two-hour session received medical care.

[Charlespg]

too much Patchouli oil perhaps?

place looks like a giant hefty bag

[~Peter]

Peyote, I’d say.

[NewCenturions]

If sweating is the key to spiritual cleansing, come to Tennessee in summer. It’s free.

[jessduntno]

I’m betting there were no conservatives lost...

[magslinger]

Using treated lumber for firewood?

[I see my hands]

These new age freaks are disgusting wastes of bio mass. You ask for tea in my house and you get the bum's rush posthaste.

[armymarinemom]

The world with two fewer Rainbow people.

[Jagman]

Indian Elder #1: That’s not a well, it’s the eye of the Holy Serpent Mound on which you’re standing.

Settler #2: It’s a beaut!

Indian Elder #2: No, it’s a mound.

[larryjohnson]

Now I do like a sauna.

[LukeL]

*shaking head in disgust*

[MizSterious]

Hey! Teas is NOT “new age.” It’s been a tradition in my family since before this country was even formed.

[tet68]

Welcome to the Stinking Desert National Indian monument
and Cobalt testing range.

[mylife]

Some participants told detectives they paid up to $9,000 for the event.

I'm in the wrong business.

[Wisconsinlady]

“retreat that began Oct. 3 and that promised to “absolutely change your life.”

Guess the guy wasn’t lying...

[Ditter]

I can’t see myself crawling into a small hot damp space with 63 other people, nope, it’s just not going to happen.

[I see my hands]

I'd have tossed your forebears out on their cozies.

[MizSterious]

Same here. Although I once had to use public transportation a lot—not too different I guess. ;)

[MizSterious]

Then you wouldn’t have had a country. Some of them were responsible for creating this country.

[GnuHere]

I’m guessing they should have consulted some Native Americans on the design issues...

[jsh3180]

>>Using treated lumber for firewood?

Twent or so years ago, a contractor I knew gave a couple of big boxes of scrap wood to the Boy Scouts to use in their campfires. They used it at a big jamboree and seven or eight kids got real sick from breathing the smoke from pressure treated lumber. This was back in the day when PT lumber had some nasty stuff in it, arsenic among other things. Said contractor was not a real bright guy and he ended up bankrupt not much longer after that incident.

[Keith in Iowa]

Key line in the article: “The sweat lodge needs to be respected,” Bruchac said. “When you imitate someone’s tradition and you don’t know what you are doing, there’s a danger of doing something very wrong.”

As to some of the posts above - mocking sweat lodges is to a Native American an insult - akin to likening the Christian holy trinity to “Big Daddy, Junior, and The Spook”. We should be better than this.

[Charlespg]

I’d like to know what real American indians think of this crazyness

[I see my hands]

"Some of them were responsible for creating this country"

How's that working out?

[Sherman Logan]

I would suspect a combination of heat stress, low oxygen, high CO2 and poor general health.

Or possibly somebody farted.

[driftdiver]

63 other NAKED people most likely

[Sherman Logan]

The wood is used to heat rocks which are they carried into the lodge and water thrown on them. The smoke from treated wood shouldn’t be much of an issue. Assuming they used treated wood.

[left that other site]

“The sweat lodge needs to be respected,” Bruchac said. “When you imitate someone’s tradition and you don’t know what you are doing, there’s a danger of doing something very wrong.”

Well There You Go! The picture shows a Tipee (Plains Tribe) with a Yin-Yang Symbol (Asian Buddist) painted on it! Talk about mixing cultural icons up! You don’t just jam a bunch of uninitiated folks into a sweat lodge and expect them to become spiritually in tune with their non-existant First-Nation ancestors! I probably have more Native American blood than the whole bunch of them put together, and though I enjoy a nice sauna, would NEVER embark on a Vision Quest or Sweat Lodge, especially in THAT environment!

They insult MY people with their stupidity.

[magslinger]

That's what I was thinking, but I hadn't read the entire article. It seems less likely if they heated the rocks outside of the sweat lodge and carried them in as described.

I'd assumed the rocks were heated in place, the fire allowed to burn down, the smoke hole closed and then used, like a traditional Finnish black sauna.

[taillightchaser]

Sedona is a beautiful place, but it is full of San Francisco rejects. For that matter, San Francisco is a beautiful city too.
Why do these freaks have to ruin all the best places??

[SpaceBar]

My guess is carbon monoxide.

[paul51]

for $9,000, I’d expect something a little more upscale than a garbage bag. But then again, that's just me.

[Dr. Bogus Pachysandra]

“tests for carbon monoxide and other contaminants were negative.”

I suspect fart gas also. The place probably serves Tex-Mex food!

[HiTech RedNeck]

paleface wondering what went wrong!

[Cicero]

Some of my boys have built sweat lodges, although we don’t currently have one now. But they and their friends used them for years. And they have had advice from Indian friends.

Obviously something went very wrong with this one. The story doesn’t really indicate what it was.

[HiTech RedNeck]

“Fart gas” is methane with some feces odorants. Other than flammability, methane is inert. I don’t think the complaint was how it smelled.

My guess, too hot, too long a stay, or insufficient pre-hydration of the participants.

[mylife]

Duuude...Its not about cultures.
It’s about “being spiritual”

/s

[fish hawk]

I guess you are asking me as I am one. There is nothing wrong with having a spiritual sweat lodge but one should have the leader be a real Indian spiritual leader and that he knows the old ways and prayers. Otherwise it could be a curse instead of a blessing. Now days there are so many wanna be native people around and there are an equal number of shysters willing to take your money to include you in their “authentic sweat lodge”. Even more fun if you can get the girls to strip down and join you in the dark steamy lodge. Wait for the real thing or go to where you can see and do the real thing and you will enjoy the ceremony and the true people that do it with you.

[Joe Boucher]

Peyote will get ya out there but not kill ya.

[PowderMonkey]

"Obviously something went very wrong with this one. The story doesn’t really indicate what it was."

Yep. Somebody forgot to bring an egg timer. Two hours in a sweat lodge is about an hour and 30 minutes too long. High temps and 100% humidity prevents the body from shedding heat by canceling out the cooling effect of evaporation. Result: clam bake. "Kemosabe": Lakota for "easily amused"

[donna]

Per local news:

1) 55 to 65 people inside - normally 8 to 12. Not enough oxygen.
2) lodge covered in plastic and blankets - normally willow branches and canvas
3) lasted two hours - normally no more than an hour

[Red Boots]

Sedona is a beautiful place,

And supposed to be a place full of mystical and peaceful energy. Last time I was there, though, I saw two grown men punching it out in the middle of the street- road rage !

I laughed hysterically !

[fish hawk]

I posted back to you before actually reading the article. Now that I've seen the pictures and read the article, let me say that this whole thing is a $9,000 a head rip off. The Yin and yang on the Tee pee is a hint. The amount charged is a big hint. Real Native American medicine men usually never charged for their services. That does not mean they never got paid but the healed person and their families paid him for the healing. One of the best books I've ever read is an old book that keeps getting reprinted is “Black Elk Speaks”. If you want to know the real thing and how the medicine men thought and acted, read that book.

[armymarinemom]

I’d like to know what real American indians think of this crazyness

Can't help you there. I'm just a small percentage Choctaw.

[pallis]

They breathed in a hot, toxic fart...?

Could be one of the hot rocks carried into the sweat lodge had some toxic effect. Maybe the guy heating them up took a leak in the fire...

Bad drugs, green, fuzzy Peyote, bad fire water...?

[taillightchaser]

The evils of demon rum.

[Covenantor]

Last time I was there, though, I saw two grown men punching it out in the middle of the street- road rage !

Ahhh, grasshopper, both men thought the other was the buddha.

“If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” — Linji

... comes from an old koan attributed to Zen Master Linji, (the founder of the Rinzai sect).

[McGavin999]

Not hard to figure out what happened. Did you see that “lodge”? 60 people inside, I would imagine they all suffered from carbon dioxide poisoning.

[Red Boots]

Ahhh, grasshopper, both men thought the other was the buddha.

I like that. I thought they'd probably stayed too long in the vortexes- makes one crazy, you know !

[org.whodat]

I'm in the wrong business.

Probably not, I'd bet you don't want to spend any time with the kook crowd.