Man Fired For Looking At Gun Web Sites

CBS News ^ | October 9, 2009 | Declan McCullagh

[neverdem]

(AP / CBS)

It's not unusual for employees to be fired for browsing pornographic Web sites at work. But a Pennsylvania gun owner named Tony Jackson may have been the first person ever fired for looking at Web sites featuring gun parts.

Jackson worked at a Lotus Notes administrator at Planco, a subsidiary of Hartford, Conn.-based insurance company The Hartford. He's a firearms instructor and self-described Second Amendment advocate who, while at work in May 2007, visited Web sites including shotgun maker Mossberg and Impact Guns's online store because he and his wife were planning on going skeet shooting and she needed a replacement part for her shotgun.

When Jackson was searching the Web for a replacement shotgun stock, supervisor Christie Vazquez -- who admitted in a subsequent deposition to being "very anti-gun" and had quarreled with him before about politics -- noticed what he was doing. Vazquez said she was scared because it was only a few weeks after the Virginia Tech massacre (see CBS News video), so she promptly reported her colleague's Web browsing to Planco's human resources department. Vazquez also informed the HR department that Jackson owned guns and was a member of the National Rifle Association.

You can guess what happened next: according to court documents, the HR representative, Jamie Davis, replied that reporting the visits to Mossberg.com and other sites was "the right thing" to do, and ordered the information technology department to investigate Jackson's Internet activity. After receiving a list of Web sites visited, Davis recommended that Jackson be placed on leave, which the company authorized. Planco disabled Jackson's front door and computer access and arranged for undercover police to be at the building the next morning.

(A side note: Jackson suffered a heart attack and stroke in January 2006, and was on medical leave for three months as a result. Later that year, his annual review from Vazquez said he worked hard but did not meet expectations, a conclusion that Jackson believes arose from discrimination relating to his decision to take medical leave. In fact, just a few weeks before the gun-Web-site incident, Jackson told HR he believed the unflattering review was a response to his medical condition.)

There is no evidence that Jackson was a violent person, and Davis later acknowledged that the list of Web sites were shopping sites that didn't have any violent pictures or anything that alarmed her. Nevertheless, Vazquez and another supervisor claimed they were concerned for their safety, and Planco fired Jackson six days later.

In October 2008, Jackson filed a lawsuit against Planco in federal district court in Philadelphia alleging that the gun-Web-site issue was a transparent pretext to fire him because of his medical condition.

The lawsuit, filed by Exton, Penn. attorney Mark Scheffer, noted that Jackson and supervisor Vazquez had -- at least at one point -- enjoyed a friendly relationship. Jackson, who has a legal concealed carry permit in Pennsylvania, accompanied Vazquez when she was hunting for apartments in dodgy areas of Philadelphia. He gave her a tour of the Philadelphia Inquirer, where he used to work, and took Vazquez to a shooting range and showed her how to use a gun. (She confirmed in a later deposition (PDF) that she enjoyed the outing.) Another employee who worked in the same department said he heard Vazquez ask Jackson about purchasing a handgun for protection.

Planco's response to the lawsuit, outlined in a 31-page legal brief (PDF), is simple: it had "legitimate concerns about employee safety" because "Jackson, an admitted gun enthusiast who owns a sizable gun collection, including an Uzi," was browsing gun-related Web sites. Planco said its managers decided to fire Jackson, who has "an apparent fascination with guns," rather than "risk the potential safety of other Planco employees."

(On the other hand, why would Planco's supervisors, all of whom knew that Jackson was a gun aficionado, suddenly be alarmed merely because they noticed he was shopping for replacement gun parts? Especially when one went shooting with him outside of work hours and enjoyed it?)

Planco also argued that Jackson violated the company's Internet policy (PDF), which would normally block access to gun-related Web sites through filtering software, by visiting them when the filter was down for maintenance. The policy broadly prohibits accessing "offensive" or "inappropriate" material, but doesn't mention gun sites; Jackson says the policy didn't apply to sites like Mossberg.com, and notes that plenty visits by other employees to non-work related Web sites went unpunished.

On September 29, U.S. District Judge Stewart Dalzell agreed with Planco and granted the company summary judgement, saying there wasn't enough evidence that Jackson suffered unlawful discrimination. "Jackson has not met his burden of showing that a discriminatory reason more likely motivated Planco," Dalzell wrote.

On Wednesday, I sent this note to Tim Benedict, the director of media relations at Planco's parent company, The Hartford:

Planco's policy says employees may not visit "inappropriate" web sites, but does not explicitly list gun sites as off-limits. Nevertheless, Jackon's at-work web browsing (he was shopping for firearms, apparently) alarmed co-workers and prompted him to be fired in May 2007. So I guess my questions to you are these: Does Planco/The Hartford believe employees should be fired if they visit gun sites at work? How about other time-wasting sites not relevant to work, like ESPN.com or Facebook?

Benedict replied on Thursday afternoon, pointing me to Planco's legal briefs and saying "I can't comment beyond that." If any readers know more about Planco's and The Hartford's Internet policies, I'd love to hear about it.

---

Declan McCullagh is a correspondent for CBSNews.com. He can be reached at declan@cbsnews.com. You can bookmark the Taking Liberties site here, or subscribe to the RSS feed.

[neverdem]

Planco's response to the lawsuit, outlined in a 31-page legal brief (PDF), is simple: it had "legitimate concerns about employee safety" because "Jackson, an admitted gun enthusiast who owns a sizable gun collection, including an Uzi," was browsing gun-related Web sites. Planco said its managers decided to fire Jackson, who has "an apparent fascination with guns," rather than "risk the potential safety of other Planco employees."

Parts! This might get interesting. They decided he was a threat to others.

[Disambiguator]

Where I work, you might get fired for NOT looking at gun sites.

You might say I’m “in the biz.”

[Repeat Offender]

Well, you know how parts are always assembling themselves into whole guns and then conning an SUV into driving them to a mall.

Just last week I had to tell my guns they were grounded because they were running willy nilly down the road....AND they didn't look BOTH ways before crossing.

[TalonDJ]

Impact guns! Hey, I surf there all the time.

[BenLurkin]

“an apparent fascination with guns,”

A common red flag for the HR types.

[Gay State Conservative]

I have no problem with an employee being fired for browsing *any* website that's not work related.so if that's this company's policy...fine with me.If it's specifically because it was a firearms site it may well come from the company's legal department.

[Abathar]

Well, technically unless he was on his lunch break they could fire him anyway for doing it during work hours.

I can fire one of my guys today if I think his shoes are ugly. Unless there’s a contract this can happen to anyone for any reason other than protected classes like Muslims and gays.

[US Navy Vet]

What did his Cos IT Systems Users Agreement say when he signed it? Most of them are pretty specific as the what is allowed(I know the DoD is).

[Gene Eric]

I’m OK with the firing providing such liberties are universal - let’s say, firing someone for browsing the NYT website.

[neverdem]

BANG!

IMHO, I wonder if this will get to Supreme Court, or will they settle for an undisclosed amount? They decided he was a threat just for enjoying an individual right.

[El Laton Caliente]

Wow! Most of the time I have freerepublic.com as well as AK-47.net and maybe The AKForums.com and GunBroker.com running all day at work....

[Zeppo]

Declan McCullagh is a correspondent for CBSNews.com

Interesting... Since CBS bought cnet.com/news.com, it appears that they are trying to rebrand it to CBS. If that is true, then they are going to lose this long-time reader. I normally try to avoid patronizing devious and dishonest companies such as CBS (just as I avoid viewing web pages originating from the NY Times - every ad view on their site is tantamount to a contribution to their treachery)... I had forgotten about the new ownership of cnet.com/news.com - but now that I've been reminded of it, I'm going to look elsewhere for my technology news...

[winner3000]

A political firing if I ever saw one. The scary thing is that the judge allowed for this kind of discrimination. Houston, we have a problem. Conservatives and Christians need to be very worried.

[Squantos]

Hmmm so I can now fire people that “scare” me ?

Bye Bye democrats !!!

If anyone in that office is allowed to surf the net during breaks etc then this ole boy is a rich man IMO.

One more reason to not work or share private life at these PC factories.

[Willie Green]

What did his Cos IT Systems Users Agreement say when he signed it? Most of them are pretty specific as the what is allowed(I know the DoD is).

Most private sector companies are quite a bit different than DoD.
I don't think I ever worked for a company that made you sign a "IT Systems Users Agreement".
In fact, despite being an engineer, I only worked for one company that put me through the bizarre formality of signing a boilerplate "non-compete" agreement along with assigning them any patents that I may develop.

Patents??? WTF??? What a joke!
I'm a manufacturing engineer, not a designer...
Why would I bust my butt trying to come up with a patent when it's tough enough getting the beancounters to spring for some routine spare parts???

[Rebelbase]

Moral of the story is not not surf the internet while at work.

[neverdem]

Soldier suspended from school (Eagle Scout, Honors Student Had Pocket Knife Locked in Car)

Kindergarten Marxists

Cosmic Ray Decreases Affect Atmospheric Aerosols And Clouds

"All these consistent scientific results illustrate that the current climate models used to predict future climate are lacking important parts of the physics."

The abstract is linked at the end of the press release.

LOTT'S NUMBERS: Comparing American Health Care to Other Countries

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

[Red in Blue PA]

Bingo!

You cannot single someone out because you do not like their hobby.

[Red in Blue PA]

I stopped going to CNET about a year or so ago for tech noews, as it was becoming obvious they were more interested in green than in tech.

[Red in Blue PA]

noted that Jackson and supervisor Vazquez had -- at least at one point -- enjoyed a friendly relationship. Jackson, who has a legal concealed carry permit in Pennsylvania, accompanied Vazquez when she was hunting for apartments in dodgy areas of Philadelphia.

What a way to pay the guy back for his help. Friggin Witch!

[~Kim4VRWC's~]

Bookmarked..

[no-s]

“an apparent fascination with guns,”

A common red flag for the HR types.

At work I volunteered be a stairway monitor for the emergency response team. During the preparedness review our HR director quipped that she didn't have to worry about folks following instructions on my floor because everyone knew I would put my pistol in my pocket when I put on my safety vest.

I told her I appreciated the on-the-record exemption from the firearms policy, at which point her chuckle became nervous...I'm sure she was just harassing me, heheh...which is why I've heard nothing more on the subject.

[Tribune7]

Hope the guy takes them for a nice chunk. If the article is true the reason for firing is BS.

[spodefly]

I learned about 10 years ago that the best policy regarding work is to never ever under any circumstances talk about or do anything that isn’t specifically work related.

There may be work places where you can relax and be a human being and carry on normal friendly conversations on a wide range of topics.

But if there is an HR department, or any women employees in your work area, then the only safe way to work is to never talk about, look at, or do anything that isn’t specific to and immediately about a work related task. Period.

[Gondring]

In fact, despite being an engineer, I only worked for one company that put me through the bizarre formality of signing a boilerplate "non-compete" agreement along with assigning them any patents that I may develop.

I'm a scientist, not an engineer, and every employer in my career has required this.

Of course, they get nothing, as I had already signed away all of my IP to "friendly entities." :-)

[stevie_d_64]

And do NOT talk about guns with anyone regardless if they bring it up or not, if they hunt or not, or go to the range or not...

There are too many instances of this stuff happening, that
folks like us need to keep these cards close to the chest...

Sorry, the employment environment is too filled with nervous ninnies that all they have to do to ruin your life is say something they know about you...

Its the nature of the beast...

[Gondring]

One would think that a company like Planco would have an EAP, where Christie Vazquez could get help to overcome her hoplophobia and paranoia.

I'm not in favor of discriminating against the mentally ill, but her condition seems to be interfering with her ability to do her job properly.

[neverdem]

Declan McCullagh is a correspondent for CBSNews.com

Declan McCullagh hasn't disappointed me yet. He's three for three so far on the Second Amendment.

[Cacique]

To liberals and the radical left anyone who doesn’t see the world their way is a threat..

[proud_yank]

Just last week I had to tell my guns they were grounded because they were running willy nilly down the road....AND they didn't look BOTH ways before crossing.

Thats terrible, and I can only imagine the emotional stress it caused you.

[Dayman]

I've never lost a job and not had it be a doorway to something better down the road. That includes getting fired for “inappropriate” computer use for spending time on gunbroker.com forums.

Unfortunately, the plaintiff is unlikely to win anything. A person can be fired for any reason that isn't discriminatory against a protected class; or for no reason at all. It sucks but that's the way it is.

Other people have stated correctly; don't talk about guns if you are at all unsure about who you are talking about. I've found that even other hunters and shooters can be virulently anti-gun towards anything that isn't a single shot shotgun or bolt-action rifle. Mention handguns, legal MG’s, or the true purpose of the 2nd amendment and you'll find out just how anti-gun some fudds are.

[Still Thinking]

I worked in a place once where they kept trying to get me to sign a non-compete.

You know, the money they're paying you during your time there is adequate compensation for you not getting to work in your own field for two years after termination, etc. Weren't supposed to communicate with other employees, customers, or vendors (even if you already knew these people before becoming employed there, even if YOU were the one who introduced them to the company). You admitted that if you still knew anything about your own business when you no longer worked there, it was their proprietary knowledge, despite the fact that in reality, they hired you because they knew you knew more about how to do certain things than they did. Etc, etc.

So I never bothered to sign. Didn't refuse, just pitched it in the trash. They went out of business before too long.

[Gondring]

So I never bothered to sign. Didn't refuse, just pitched it in the trash. They went out of business before too long.

A former employer panicked when they realized during a layoff that I hadn't signed. They gave me $1,000 to sign it as I exited. :-)

[Still Thinking]

You mean for patents or non-compete?

[Still Thinking]

I knew a guy who hadn’t signed when he quit and they owed him $5K in commissions. They bribed him into signing using money they already owed him.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[no-s]

same here, I usually just pitch it. Sometimes I modify it to remove objectionable clauses and see if they'll go for it. Usually not, and then to the round file... I also don't sign the "employment at will" letters, or I modify them to assert I am not relinquishing rights nor terminating previously contracted arrangements.

Only once did I miss out on a job because of my "obtuse" attitude - they sprang the agreement on me after I accepted and received an acceptance letter. "Everyone signs" was the excuse. I pointed out we had already reached an agreement which they had accepted and acknowledged and it mentioned no such requirement. We finally agreed on a small amount from them to compensate me for my time and the expense of my attorney in return for not suing them over false promises. They essentially ended up paying me for 3 months while I found another job, heheh.

[Still Thinking]

I figured they wouldn't want me to sign the letter if it didn't mean I was giving up some rights I'd have if I didn't sign. If they want me to give up something, they should compensate me in some way. If what I'm giving up is employment in my customary field for several years, that compensation isn't going to be $1,000 either. It's going to be some percentage of a normal salary for that same period, like 25-30%.

And what really galled me was that they had hired me for knowledge I already had, but if you took the [boilerplate] agreement at face value, I was to quit using that knowledge after employment so as not to be competing with THEM! Since I was the one whose proprietary knowledge on those issues predated employment, maybe I should have demanded THEY sign a non-compete!

[GWConservative]

Jackson worked at a Lotus Notes administrator at Planco, a subsidiary of Hartford, Conn.-based insurance company The Hartford.

So is the company in the gun business? Do they have to pay him to surf his hobby or support his off-duty business while he is on-duty? What if it had been the ultimate time-waster, facebook? How much of his employers time and money need to pay for his hobby? What about productivity?

[Lazamataz]

So is the company in the gun business? Do they have to pay him to surf his hobby or support his off-duty business while he is on-duty? What if it had been the ultimate time-waster, facebook? How much of his employers time and money need to pay for his hobby? What about productivity?

Guns are special. Losing productivity is okay so long as it's about weaponry.

[Lazamataz]

You are on Free Republic, and we only occasionally discuss guns.

Yer fired. Get yer stuff.

[Disambiguator]

Are you sure you want to do that? I could be a US Postal Service worker.

;^)

[wardaddy]

what u said

[s0nspark]

Glad our HR guy is a part-time police officer and a fellow “gun nut” :-)

[GWConservative]

Guns are special. Losing productivity is okay so long as it's about weaponry.

That is the best answer I have ever had on FR. Thank you! I guess I have to agree. I would pay him to surf his hobby rather than get the job done. For flag and glory. Amen.