Posted on 10/07/2009 6:34:28 PM PDT by underthestreetlite
American soldiers serving in Afghanistan are depressed and deeply disillusioned, according to the chaplains of two US battalions that have spent nine months on the front line in the war against the Taleban.
Many feel that they are risking their lives — and that colleagues have died — for a futile mission and an Afghan population that does nothing to help them, the chaplains told The Times in their makeshift chapel on this fortress-like base in a dusty, brown valley southwest of Kabul.
“The many soldiers who come to see us have a sense of futility and anger about being here. They are really in a state of depression and despair and just want to get back to their families,” said Captain Jeff Masengale, of the 10th Mountain Division’s 2-87 Infantry Battalion.
“They feel they are risking their lives for progress that’s hard to discern,” said Captain Sam Rico, of the Division’s 4-25 Field Artillery Battalion. “They are tired, strained, confused and just want to get through.” The chaplains said that they were speaking out because the men could not.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
Vietnam syndrome is setting in ...
Who needs Tokyo Rose or Axis Sally when you got articles like this?
When their CINC is a coward and cannot define victory this is what you will get. This is Obama’s and the liberals mistake and who will be the last man willing to die for a mistake?
Next we will be getting the word that Chaplains are not allowed to talk to the media! I really feel for these guys as Obama and his Administration seems to be abandoning them.
God Bless our troops.
The American soldier is the best and baddest fighting man on the face of this planet.
Best trained.
Most professional.
They are the brightest and strongest military force for good on earth.
Period.
I’d lose heart too with a vacillating figure like Bummer at the helm.
Who needs Tokyo Rose or Axis Sally when you got...Barak Obama?
These chaplains should be court-martialed.
This is but a continuation of the Former main stream Media’s constant assault on any military action anywhere.....especially American military action.
I wonder what the millions of Unemployed workers are feeling ?
How about the fear of layoffs and the futile job searches going on in America ?
Life is tough, Obama is making it tougher along with a Democratic Congress of Economic ignorance.
Afghanistan is close to being safer than Chicago and its 508 murders last year.
At least the military can carry handguns, Chicagoans cannot.
No National Security Strategy published by the POTUS as required by Goldwater/Nichols. The US Military is rudderless.
Don’t shoot the messenger. Your anger and disgust should be directed at our political ‘leadership’. Their vacillation on direction and commitment leaves our heroes swinging in the wind and encourages our enemies
Confident voice of Canadian troops rarely heard in Afghan debate
Is it true more soldiers have died in Afghanistan since Obama was elected than in all the Bush years combined?
I HATE Barack Hussein Uhbama mmm mmm mmm and I absolutely despise EVERY SINGLE WIMPISH, GIRLISH, COWARDLY, TROOP CRUSHING, UN-AMERICAN LIBERAL FRIGGIN adviser that sorry excuse for a president has around him.
Great job Barry. I know your proud.....cause I certainly am NOT!
Ditto but you left out queer loving.
Paul wrote: “Your anger and disgust should be directed at our political ‘leadership’.”
Absolutely. If there is a morale problem it need to be fixed, not covered up. Hussein needs to stop dithering, give McCrystal what he wants, and make an unequivocal statement that we will do whatever it takes to win this thing.
The article references the Afghans not co-operating. No surprise there. They think the US under Obama will bug out and leave them to be killed as collaborators by the Taliban.
The afghans will not start helping unless they believe the US will be there until it is done.
Everybody likes a winner. American Democrats have a well deserved reputation for abandoning allies. They do it on “principle”.
This is the work of Obama’s and Emanuel’s new ROEs.
The troops can’t pursue, can’t fight back, can’t expose enemy deception, and can’t rely on artillery when they’re in trouble.
They aren’t depressed about Afghanistan - they’re depressed about their own President and his consigliere sabotaging them.
My bad!
Me Too.
Hell is too good for this Obamination.
Bring our heroes home.
Eff the rest of the world, we need armed, trained patriots right here, right now.
Republic wrote: “I HATE Barack Hussein...”
I think Obama derangement syndrome is blinding some Freepers to the fact the Obama may well be forced into doing the right thing here.
Yes he has pathetic liberal advisers and yes his personal instincts are surrender-monkey. But, he’s about to have health care reform go down the tubes, climate change legislation go down the tubes, high unemployment for several more years, a big tax increase on jan 1, 2011 etc. etc.
If you add defeat in what Hussein claimed was a war of necessity, you have a total failed Presidency. I believe political necessity will force Hussein to follow Bush’s example in Iraq. Having exhausted all other options, he’s going have to decide and lead.
Has anyone ever seen a Battalion MTOE with 1,500 troops?
A Battalion Task Force with assigned companies and attached units often range from 500-1500 troops. Not unusual at all.
A light infanry Battalion (2-87) would pick up all sorts of attchments, from Engineers to Artillery.
Regards,
I called the minority leader yesterday and told his staffer to get the troops.
OUT!
Sounds like it’s time for Obambi to go out on another date night. Or maybe he needs to fly somewhere to talk to someone about healthcare, or maybe lobby for better lobster prices, or shop for a bauble for Queen Sasquatch, or some other really important mission.
Guess I should actually spell “Infantry” correctly.
bump
Chaplain ping.
Regards,
Yes
There is no doubt that a lack of clarity in mission can make a soldier woneer at the wisdom of dying for a cause that isn’t clear.
It’s also true that ROEs that say, “Don’t shoot unless you see their weapon.” gives a great advantage to the enemy, and it makes our soldiers completely vulnerable.
It always seemed to me that morale was multi-faceted, but the bottom line measure was whether the soldiers would fight. It also always struck me that speaking negativity was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The commander seemed surprised at his chaplain’s analysis. Heaven is the only one to help that chaplain if he shared this with the Times before he shared it with his boss.
I was attempting to demonstrate that the article may be flawed in a number of other ways.
See #37.
From the story:
Captain Masengale, a soldier for 12 years before he became a chaplain, said: “We want to believe in a cause but we don’t know what that cause is.”
The soldiers are angry that colleagues are losing their lives while trying to help a population that will not help them. “You give them all the humanitarian assistance that they want and they’re still going to lie to you. They’ll tell you there’s no Taleban anywhere in the area and as soon as you roll away, ten feet from their house, you get shot at again,” said Specialist Eric Petty, from Georgia.
Captain Rico told of the disgust of a medic who was asked to treat an insurgent shortly after pulling a colleague’s charred corpse from a bombed vehicle.
The soldiers complain that rules of engagement designed to minimise civilian casualties mean that they fight with one arm tied behind their backs. “They’re a joke,” said one. “You get shot at but can do nothing about it. You have to see the person with the weapon. It’s not enough to know which house the shooting’s coming from.”
When I was a young, captain-chaplain like these guys, I, too, believed that there was this thing that was a compilation of attitudes called morale.
However, as I went from job to job over the years, I came more to believe that there was no “average” morale that had its own existence and impact on a unit. I saw morale more in terms of issues. What was the “living condition” morale? What was the “family relationships” morale? What was the leadership morale? What was the fighting morale? What was the mission morale?
It’s far better to tell a commander that these guys have low morale regarding family relationships, but their fighting morale is a razor’s edge. They’ll kick ass.
I think commanders appreciate specific information rather than some negative average that is its own incentive for more negativity.
I, too, think the ROEs in Afghan are beyond unworkable; I think they’re criminal.
I, too, think these multiple tour-rotation wars are debilitating to families and relationships and focus. I’d far rather we had clear objectives, a mobilized nation, and an overseas-for-the-duration plan. (I say this with a son overseas as I write.)
WWII was correctly fought. You know what you’re after as a nation. You go for it until its accomplished with zero letup. In terms of war objectives, it separates the patriots from the politicians.
We are attempting to shovel back the ocean with a spatula. It’s a fool’s mission. In a decade, the Afghans will be living exactly as they have for thousands of years, we’ll be gone, but our dead and maimed will still be dead and maimed.
Litekeeper
Chaplain, US Army, retired
line officer in Viet Nam for 19 months
Speak for yourself, Captain Masengale.
Scouts Out!!
>>> Vietnam syndrome is setting in ... <<<
Vietnam propaganda syndrome is setting in, you mean.
However, let’s not forget the caveat in paragraph 5:
“The base is NOT, it has to be said, obviously downcast, and MANY troops do NOT share the chaplains’ assessment. The soldiers are, by nature and training, upbeat, driven by a strong sense of duty, and they do their jobs as best they can.” (my emphasis)
Could the Obama Administration be doing a better job — better yet, START doing the job of commanding our military in Afghanistan? Sure!
Will the Obama Administration and its journalist “fellow travellers” do their best to make sure that our military and other ISAF soldiers don’t have to continue the fight in Afghanistan? By trying to sway public opinion by portraying our efforts there in the worst possible light? You betcha!
I think you are right about what it is, the troops are the first to know, but the cause was and is lack of a CINC ... Johnson was much more interested in his Great Society boondoggle than he was in fighting Kennedy’s war.
Now we have Oba-Mao and his crap, and not even meeting with the Commanding general until it became a public embarrassment, and then it’s sort of like, Oh yeah, the war ...
The troops know.
“Vietnam syndrome” and “Vietnam propaganda syndrome” aren’t contraries. They dovetail with each other quite nicely. What I’m suggesting is that we should distinguish between the two, and realize that the propaganda that wants us to think that Afghanistan is a “fait accompli” failure is already out there. And increasing in intensity as we speak.
I mean, we wouldn’t want the O-brahman to have to read ANOTHER book on icky-nasty war-stuff, now would we?
The problem is that our enemies no longer fear us and our friends no longer respect us. That does not bode well for the men who are charged with prosecuting a war that has no objective other than maintaining the status quo.
I suspect that McChrystal is not long for command and that these Chaplains are not long for the service, but the problem is that Obama is not listening or observing and when the CIC is not paying attention, sometimes the only way to get his attention is to go over his head... in this case take it to the press.
McChrystal’s brother is a solid, very conservative Christian chaplain. Brothers don’t always have the same denomination, but they do have the same religious background. This tells me that McChrystal will continue to forthrightly answer anyone who asks him a question or asks his opinion. If they wanted a politician, they didn’t get one. If Obama were smart, he would treasure that characteristic of Gen. McChrystal.
These chaplains have done nothing wrong, in my opinion, unless they blindsided their commanders. The one commander mentioned sounded like it was the first time he’d heard this. That’s simply unfair treatment of his commander on the part of that chaplain. It is the opposite of what McChrystal did in terms of candidness.
I can’t hold the chaplains’ inexperience with morale against them, however, I think the liberal pacifists will love these words from these chaplains except for the negative comments about the current ROEs, which they will ignore. Their talking point will be: “low morale, low morale, low morale..”
Obama will look really stupid to remove McChrystal at this point. I think they’ll pull and end-around.
They will attempt to transfer authority to the Nato command and they’ll call for Nato to up their presence instead of us having a surge. With them, talking about having more troops is the same as having more troops.
AMEN, 100%!!!!!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.