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ACORN: Who Funds the Weather Underground’s Little Brother? (READ THIS!)
Capital Research Center ^ | November 2008 | Matthew Vadum

Posted on 09/23/2009 5:39:08 AM PDT by broken_arrow1

[excerpt...] Creating A Financial Crisis Some writers have suggested the actions of ACORN and other Alinsky-inspired organizers who adhere to the Cloward-Piven Strategy of manufactured crisis have helped cause the meltdown on Wall Street. Certainly radical activists have had their eyes on Wall Street for a long time. One could even plausibly argue that the crisis on Wall Street is a kind of Reichstag fire but that this time the Communists really are the arsonists.

Opposed to the profit motive and capitalism in general, it [ACORN] pushes for more government control over citizens and the economy. ACORN supports gun control, a government monopoly in healthcare and an open door immigration policy. It supports a big raise in the federal minimum wage and so-called “living–wage” laws enacted by states and cities. ACORN wants more funding for urban public schools, and wants federal and state laws enacted guaranteeing paid sick leave for all full-time workers. The group claims to fight for affordable housing and it rails against foreclosures and so-called “predatory” lending, even though it demands that banks make loans destined to default.

[excerpt...]ACORN’s origins lie in the 1962 Port Huron Statement, a manifesto of radical students disillusioned with America. The ponderous statement was largely written by Tom Hayden (Jane Fonda’s ex-husband). It claimed America was hopelessly racist, militaristic, and soulless: “America is without community, impulse, without the inner momentum necessary for an age when societies cannot successfully perpetuate themselves by their military weapons, when democracy must be viable because of its quality of life, not its quantity of rockets.”

The statement called for greater worker control over the economy and so-called participatory democracy. It asserted that “[t]he allocation of resources must be based on social needs,” and that “public utilities, railroads, mines, and plantations, and other basic economic institutions should be in the control of national, not foreign, agencies.”

The authors of the Port Huron statement created an organization to carry out their vision. It was Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), perhaps the preeminent group of the New Left movement of the 1960s. Inevitably, SDS failed to achieve its goals and it broke into splinter factions. One bloc of SDS members formed the violent group, “Weatherman” (popularly referred to as the Weathermen). The group embraced terror as a tool of political change and morphed into the violent Weather Underground Organization (WUO). Two of its leaders were the would-be mass murderers William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, who would later become members of the faculties of, respectively, the University of Illinois, Chicago and the Northwestern University School of Law.

Those who rejected terrorist violence included Wade Rathke, who had worked as a draft resistance organizer for SDS. He also was an organizer for the National Welfare Rights Organization (NWRO), a group whose members physically occupied welfare offi ces, intimidating social workers and insisting that they be given every government welfare dollar that the law “entitled” them to. NWRO followed what has since been called the Cloward-Piven Strategy after sociologists Frances Fox Piven and Richard A. Cloward. They defined a model of political and economic subversion that called upon activists to pack the welfare rolls to spread dependency, bankrupt the government, and cause uprisings against the capitalist system.

Rathke believed in “welfare rights” in the 1960s and he believes in them today, the U.S. Constitution notwithstanding. In 1970 he founded ACORN to carry out the strategy of upheaval and the agenda of welfare entitlement. That agenda manifests itself today in the ACORN Tax & Benefit Access Center and the ACORN Financial Justice Center. ACORN partnered with the Marguerite Casey Foundation, a left-wing funder, to create a new kind of tax preparation service based on the assumption that Americans have a “right” to welfare. Think of it as H&R Block for subversives. The group and its allied entities help people claim the Earned Income Tax Credit, a make-believe tax credit that functions more as a welfare benefi t. The goal is not primarily to help Americans in need but to pack the welfare rolls in order to expand the size and scope of government. (See the foundation’s press release at http:// tinyurl.com/58efet.)

Although there is nothing wrong with registering poor people, who have just as much of a right to vote as other Americans, ACORN’s focus on registering those dependent on government programs seems consistent with the Cloward-Piven Strategy. Its voter registration drives in Louisiana, for example, focus on registering people at “welfare waiting rooms, unemployment offices, and on Food Stamp lines.”

ACORN and WUO, siblings who took different paths to radical change, one through violence and terror, the other through protest and politics, draw their inspiration from a second source, the Chicago activist Saul Alinsky. He is the leftist who wrote Rules for Radicals, the seminal how-to guide for radical activists that elevated local-level political agitation to an ugly art form. As the father of community organizing Alinsky urged activists to “rub raw the sores of discontent.” In his book, Alinsky praised the Devil as the “first radical” who “rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom.”


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: acorn; agenda; bho44; coi; corruption; democratcorruption; democrats; liberalfascism; obama; weathermen
Although written in November 2008, it is current with today's headlines and casts s spotlight on Obama's radical agenda and advisors. The underlying quere is who are the players behind the scenes: Weather Underground and Students for a Democratic Society SDS - The Weathermen each split off separately and re-formed as the political building blocks for a Communist-Socialist Revolution (e.g., Wade Rathke, Jeff Jones, Bill Ayers and others).

see the nice photo of Bill Clinton with Wade Rathke!

1 posted on 09/23/2009 5:39:09 AM PDT by broken_arrow1
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To: broken_arrow1

Little brother? More like Red headed step child!!!


2 posted on 09/23/2009 5:55:48 AM PDT by Morgana ( Wir wollen nicht ein Forth Reich Obama!!!!)
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To: Morgana

ping


3 posted on 09/23/2009 7:21:09 AM PDT by JmyBryan
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To: broken_arrow1; All
The NEA, ACORN, SEIU, Obama- and more-- are all joined at the hip-- I've started a running file on ACORN,
' The Issa Report- ACORN "a criminal enterprise..."'--Click the picture:


4 posted on 09/23/2009 11:53:15 AM PDT by backhoe (All across America, the Lights are going out...)
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To: broken_arrow1; FlingWingFlyer; altair; stephenjohnbanker; youturn; little jeremiah; ~Kim4VRWC's~; ..
ACORN Ping!

FReep mail me if you want on/off the list.


5 posted on 09/23/2009 11:54:26 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (A mob of one.)
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To: broken_arrow1

There are a lot more articles out there like this that make the hair on the back of your neck stand up. It is has become clear that this Administration is filled with radicals and just a matter of how radical.

Don’t think Obama had any friends but radicals.


6 posted on 09/23/2009 12:12:54 PM PDT by PhiKapMom (Mary Fallin - OK Gov/Coburn - Senate 2010 ! Take Back the House/Senate! Stop ZERO!)
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To: backhoe; JmyBryan

Best little whore house in....? Oh skip it! I would like to beat them like a red headed step child!!


7 posted on 09/23/2009 12:23:40 PM PDT by Morgana ( Wir wollen nicht ein Forth Reich Obama!!!!)
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To: broken_arrow1
"I was, uh, one of the authors of the Port Huron Statement - The original Port Huron Statement ... Not the compromised second draft. And then I, uh ... Ever hear of the Seattle Seven?"

- The Dude

excuse the non sequiter

8 posted on 09/23/2009 12:46:18 PM PDT by Hoboken (Let's continue to roll)
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To: broken_arrow1

Outstanding post!

B T T T


9 posted on 09/23/2009 12:53:59 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: PhiKapMom

“Don’t think Obama had any friends but radicals.”

There is no evidence that he ever did.


10 posted on 09/23/2009 12:54:51 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: backhoe

More great work from Backhoe!!


11 posted on 09/24/2009 10:28:53 AM PDT by TenthAmendmentChampion (Be prepared for tough times. FReepmail me to learn about our survival thread!)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

BTW, Matthew Vadum is on Twitter.


12 posted on 09/24/2009 10:30:39 AM PDT by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: TenthAmendmentChampion

13 posted on 09/24/2009 11:26:06 AM PDT by backhoe (All across America, the Lights are going out...)
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To: broken_arrow1

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2198595/posts

I wrote about this some time ago. I also included ties to Congress. Strong ties, the kind that bind and cut.


14 posted on 09/24/2009 11:30:35 AM PDT by Danae (No political party should pick candidates. That's the voters job.)
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To: BunnySlippers

He is also a FReeper.


15 posted on 09/24/2009 11:31:14 AM PDT by Danae (No political party should pick candidates. That's the voters job.)
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To: backhoe

LOL! That’s great!


16 posted on 09/24/2009 11:33:54 AM PDT by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed *NRA*JPFO*SAF*GOA*SAS*CCRKBA)
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To: broken_arrow1


WHITE HOUSE COVERUP

“Obama Gives Up On Paterson
Has Obama asked beleaguered and unpopular NY Governor David Paterson to drop out of the race to keep his seat?
That's what the New York Times is reporting. If true, this is fairly extraordinary.
It's
highly unusual for a president to step in and tell a governor who is not facing something
like a crippling scandal or imminent indictment that his time is up. And when it's the first
black president telling one of only two black governors to clear the way for someone
else...that definitely falls into the category of Stories You Never Expected To Read.”

.”


NY Times: Obama wants Paterson to drop campaign for NY governor
The Times, citing sources, said Obama is concerned that "Mr. Paterson cannot recover from his dismal political standing."
According to the Times report, the decision to ask Paterson to step aside was proposed by political advisors to Obama,
but approved by the president himself. .”


“N.Y. Governor Orders Review of ACORN Contracts
New York Gov. David Paterson ordered state agencies Friday to put a 30-day hold on
contracts with the community organizing group ACORN and its affiliate, New York Agency for Community Affairs.

In a memo, the Budget Division cited Paterson's "continued efforts to ensure fiscal
accountability and integrity," directing the agencies to report "any potential issues."

In Washington, the House and Senate separately voted this week to deny all federal funds
for ACORN in a GOP-led strike against the liberal-leaning group, which was accused last year of submitting some false voter registration forms in a massive voter-registration drive.”


“ACORN's Recent History With Prostitution (who'd have thought..)
Perhaps we shouldn't have been completely surprised by the videos we've seen of ACORN workers offering assistance to prostitution rings.

I mean, there was Cincinnati . . .
Shari Bell, 41, of Walnut Hills was arrested Wednesday night by Cincinnati police, reported WCPO, NewsChannel5's Cincinnati sister station.
Bell allegedly approached an undercover officer's car in Evanston and offered him sex for money. Police also said they found a crack pipe in Bell's coat pocket.
Bell told police she works for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now at the time of her arrest.

And then there was Cleveland:
An Ohio man who cast an illegal early ballot after being caught registering to vote several times with ACORN is a longtime scammer who was arrested last year — as a woman.
The bizarre tale of Darnell Nash — a k a Serina "Sexy Slay" Gibbs — came to light after Cuyahoga County election officials charged him with voter fraud and this week turned him in to prosecutors.
It turns out that Nash, 24, who has a criminal record as a man, is now a transsexual escort who claims to make $150 an hour turning tricks as the self-proclaimed "Queen of Cleveland Gender Benders."
Maybe this really is just another day at the office for the folks at ACORN . . .

UPDATE: Then there's Milwaukee:
At least seven felons convicted of crimes including cocaine possession and robbery were recruited by a liberal group to register voters in Milwaukee,
raising fears they may have committed voter fraud . . .
Along with the seven felons, court records show one special registration deputy has a pending felony charge for heroin possession and another is facing a misdemeanor prostitution charge. A third was convicted of misdemeanor prostitution. “



"ACORN Funded Prostitution Zone")."


ACORN Prostitution Scam Moves to Brooklyn

Now, I guess, we know what a community organizer does, because today we learned, an ACORN Brothel Grows in Brooklyn.
When we last saw our fake pimp and hooker, they were in our nation's capitol trying to
find out how ACORN would deal with people looking for a home mortgage so they can open open up a brothel using under-aged girls. "


"US ACORN SCANDAL: International Press Roundup (RUSSIA); Balt. Libs Recommend to Establish Brothel.

Liberal Benefactors in Baltimore gave recommendations to establish a brothel
В США опубликован видеоролик с участием сотрудников либеральной некоммерческой
организации, которые с энтузиазмом дают советы по организации противозаконного бизнеса -
детской проституции. In the United States published a video with the participation of staff of the liberal non-profit organization,
who enthusiastically give advice on the organization of an illegal business - child prostitution.
Как передает CNN, запись сделана двумя консервативными активистами,
один из которых изображал сутенера, а другая - проститутку.
According to CNN, entry was made by two conservative activist, one of which
depicted the pimp and the other - a prostitute.
Объектом успешной провокации стала влиятельная Ассоциация местных
организаций за немедленные реформы (ACORN)."



"ACORN SCANDAL: International Press Roundup (MEXICO) Girls
from Mexico/E.S. to U.S. for Prostitution
"Trabajo encubierto exhibe ilícitos de empleados de la ACORN;
Llevan a EU niñas de México y El Salvador para prostituirlas"
They have girls from Mexico to the United States and El Salvador for Prostitution
Antonio Heras Antonio Heras Corresponsal Correspondent Mexicali, BC, 17 de
septiembre. Mexicali, BC, Sept. 17. An undercover work done by Hannah Giles and
James O'Keefe, activists, human rights advocates, revealed illegal actions of
employees of the Association of Community Organizations for the New Reform
(ACORN, for its acronym in English), who advise the import United States of girls
from Mexico and El Salvador for prostitution in the neighboring country and profit
from it.

The ACORN, nongovernmental organization dedicated to the support of migrants and
highly marginalized people to acquire home ownership in the U.S., announced it will
initiate an independent investigation to determine responsibilities of its employees."


"ACORN SCANDAL: International Press Roundup (NORWAY): "Obama-Support Group Helps Fake Whore/Pimp" "Obama-Støttegruppe Felt Av Falsk Hore Og Hhallik"
a video camera has revealed how people in the U.S. umbrella organization Acorn has
been willing to provide support to illegal projects.
Obama-aid Lobby group, which supports low-and middle-income groups in the housing
wage and tax issues, was under the election campaign last year, accused of election
fraud after a sub-organization had a mission to register voters worth 800 000 dollars
for Obama. "


"Unearthed! Obama's twisted ACORN roots
"Obama's task was to help far South Side residents press for improvement," the Times article explained. "


"The E. F. Hutton of Prostitution: When ACORN Talks, Pimps and Hookers Listen.
The radical activist group ACORN is the E. F. Hutton of prostitution. It stands ready to provide discreet advice
on setting up a brothel and engaging in other, associated acts of criminality. When ACORN talks, pimps and hookers listen.
In Baltimore, ACORN staff assured O’Keefe and Giles that the group doesn’t “discriminate” — i.e., has no standards whatsoever.
Giles is told if she makes $96,000 a year selling sex, she should tell the government she only makes $9,600.
O’Keefe notes that they want a house for 13 underage girls who will be imported from El Salvador to work as prostitutes.
Only three — not all 13 — of the girls can be listed as dependents, ACORN prudently advises. "


"ACORN Prostitution Scandal:San Bernardino VIDEO This Time W/Politicians and Murder
When we last saw our fake pimp and hooker, they were in Brooklyn, with the usual scenario,
trying to find out how ACORN would deal with people looking for a home mortgage
so they can open open up a brothel using under-aged girls.

Today's stop is San Bernardino, California. In this Acorn office we find out the woman who runs the office is also a poll dancer
who may turn tricks on the side. ACORN's is supposedly non political but acording to Teresa,
the woman on the tape helping the pair, she speaks with Congressman and Senators every day because
she is lobbying for the Obamacare bill. She names Barbara "Call Me Senator "Boxer and Senator McCleod,
and 62nd district Assemblywoman Wilmer Amina Carter as people with whom she deals.
Theresa says that “Eden’s” prostitution money would be an asset to James in his quest to become a Senator or Representative.
Also the person who was helping the alter egos of James O' Keefe and Hannah Giles with the prostitution scam
also talks about how she first planned the cover-up then shot and killed her husband."


James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles visited one of ACORN’s New York offices in August,
where they picked up handy tips on how to lie on housing forms to cover up a prostitution business
(”Honesty is not going to get you the house,” one ACORN official advises) and how to hide cash
from their illicit business (”When you buy the house with the backyard, you get a tin…
and you bury it down in there…cover it…and put the grass over it…”).

In 1994 the ACORN Housing Corporation (AHC) was awarded a $1.1 million grant
by AmeriCorps, a program of the Corporation for National Service (CNS). The money was intended
to fund the training of 42 AmeriCorps members in 13 cities. The workers were expected to identify
low-income families hoping to purchase a first home, to assist them in finding suitable housing, and to
advise them in securing the necessary financing.

AHC’s initial subterfuge pales in comparison to the illegal fundraising scheme it subsequently operated,
using its AmeriCorps grant to increase ACORN’s membership.
According to Jordan, one ACORN member in the Dallas regional office stated that “the only reason
for having the AmeriCorps program was to gain new ACORN members, and that if AmeriCorps loan
counseling clients did not start becoming ACORN members, she could and would halt the AmeriCorps project.”
Jordan found that this understanding was not limited to the Dallas office.
Using government funds to solicit membership in an organization that— like ACORN—participates in
direct political advocacy is a violation of federal guidelines."


"ACORN: Big Apple, Big Pimping (another shoe drops)
It was just a fluke, ACORN insisted the first time that James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles
published their undercover video showing their office in Baltimore helping a pimp evade taxes
and get a mortgage by deceit for a brothel. They fired a couple of “bad apples” in that office,
and a couple of more bad apples in Washington DC when that office got caught on hidden camera
doing the same thing. In fact. ACORN went so far as to brag that the pair had tried the same thing
and failed in “San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia to name a few places.”"

17 posted on 09/24/2009 12:02:13 PM PDT by Diogenesis ("Those who go below the surface do so at their peril" - Oscar Wilde)
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To: EdReform

18 posted on 09/24/2009 12:08:45 PM PDT by backhoe (All across America, the Lights are going out...)
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To: Liz

Ping to Issa report.


19 posted on 09/24/2009 12:31:11 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: BunnySlippers

Thanks


20 posted on 09/24/2009 12:31:54 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: backhoe

Thanks for the info!


21 posted on 09/24/2009 12:33:09 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Thanks for looking.


22 posted on 09/24/2009 12:39:17 PM PDT by backhoe (All across America, the Lights are going out...)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
For Clinton and Obama, a Common Ideological Touchstone
Washington Post, Sunday, March 25, 2007
Author: Peter Slevin, Washington Post Staff Writer

EXCERPT Obama stepped into the Alinsky tradition after deciding “mainly on impulse,” he has said, at age 21 to become a community organizer. His passion ran to romantic visions of the civil rights struggle. “He wanted to make that kind of contribution and didn’t know how to do it,” said Gerald Kellman, who hired Obama . “There’s that side of him that’s strongly idealistic, very much a dreamer, and this kind of work attracts that kind of person. It isn’t just that we’re going to change things, but we’re going to change things from the grass roots.”

Obama spent three roller-coaster years trying to build a new source of power in the Altgeld Gardens housing project and the Roseland community, maneuvering among neighbors, church leaders and politicians who did not always welcome the encounters.

“It was poverty on top of poverty. There were so many people who had given up. They just didn’t care,” said Loretta Augustine-Herron, who signed up to work with Obama . “I don’t think he knew how bad it was until he came to our area. He had to have the tenacity and the patience to train us, and sometimes he had to be frustrated.”

The Alinsky method, which Obama taught long afterward, is centered on one-on-one conversations. The organizer’s task is to draw out people’s stories, listening for their goals and ambitions - “the stuff that makes them tick,” one of his teachers told him. There he would find the self-interest that would spark activism.

Fellow community organizer Madeline Talbott said Obama mastered the approach. She remembers a successful 1992 voter-registration drive that he ran for Project Vote. “He says things like, `Do you think we should do this? What role would you like to play?’ “ said Talbott, chief organizer for Illinois ACORN. “Everybody else just puts out an e-mail and says, `Y’all come.’ Barack doesn’t do that.”

23 posted on 09/24/2009 1:32:48 PM PDT by Liz
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To: Diogenesis

Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” distributed with Taxpayer $$ under Jimmy Carter Administration through VISTA program now under AmeriCorps

Mark Levin interview with Pajamas TV:

http://www.pjtv.com/v...

Mark Levin commented in the video [at 8:51 mark], that when he came into the Reagan Administration, one of the places they sent him was to look at the VISTA program at an agency called ACTION, where he came across boxes and boxes of Sal Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” books payed for by taxpayer dollars under the Jimmy Carter administration, and shelled them out in all the poor areas in the country and cities...

VISTA program is NOW a branch of AmeriCorps.

Is this what Obama meant when he said we need a civilian national security force (AmeriCorps) just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded [as our military]?

http://www.youtube.co...

From AmeriCorps website:

http://www.americorps...

Americorps>Stories of Service

Linda Sunde
VISTA - Milwaukee, Wis.

[excerpt...] In 1975, VISTA was recruiting locally and I applied to a program in my hometown called Milwaukee Associates in Urban Development. M.A.U.D., as it was known, assigned me to a community organizing project called Milwaukee Alliance of Concerned Citizens, or MACC. I guess we were really into acronyms even then. MACC was an Alinsky-style organization, which means that it took a political activist approach to community organizing. Trainers from the Industrial Areas Foundation, an organization founded by Saul Alinsky and dedicated to supporting community organizing, would come up from Chicago to train us in how to organize people to act for social change.

[excerpt...] There were about 40 of us at my pre-service orientation to VISTA, all from the Milwaukee area. In those days you got fingerprinted when you joined VISTA, an intimidating thought when embarking on a career as a social activist. But it was VISTA’s 10th Anniversary and everyone thought that was pretty remarkable. We all received a little gold commemorative pin with the VISTA logo, which I still have. A number of the other VISTA trainees are still friends and colleagues.

[excerpt...] As Alinsky-style organizers, we had been trained that the organizers are not out front as leaders or spokespersons. Our job was to empower others to leadership roles. This and other lessons have continued to guide my work in community service over the years. Several of the women on the committee who had been pretty shy about testifying or talking to reporters became seasoned pros by the time I left. A few years ago I attended a Retired and Senior Volunteer Program recognition in Milwaukee and discovered that one of the women I had worked with was receiving an award for her 20 plus years of service as a Court Watch volunteer. When I introduced myself she didn’t remember me specifically, but did remember the VISTA project and credited it with getting her started as a Court Watch volunteer. I tell that story now when I speak to AmeriCorps*VISTAs at trainings and elsewhere to illustrate that it might take more than 20 years for them to realize they made a difference in someone’s life.

Within a year of ending my VISTA service, I was tapped to become a VISTA supervisor with M.A.U.D. About a year later I was named executive director of the organization and stayed there for about 15 years. The VISTA program at M.A.U.D. was a prototype for consortium projects around the country. The organization did most of its own recruiting, placement, training, supervision, and program administration for its VISTA components, acting as a sort of mini state office. Not everyone in ACTION liked the concept, but it worked. My master’s thesis on VISTA used the M.A.U.D. program as a model. It was later published as “VISTA as Experiential Education,” in Experiential Education for Community Development, in 1989.

Nearly every day I run into someone who was a VISTA with that program. They are running community groups, holding elective office, teaching, organizing, and generally making their mark on the world. I am struck by the number of former VISTAs in some type of community service work. Their stories are similar to mine: VISTA changed the direction of their lives. Coming to work at the Corporation for National and Community Service in 1998 was the culmination of my VISTA journey that began in the early 1970s. Becoming the Wisconsin State Director was like coming home. I tell people that this is the job I was meant to have.


24 posted on 09/24/2009 1:48:01 PM PDT by broken_arrow1 (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country - Nathan Hale "Patriot")
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To: Hoboken

That’s exactly what I thought of ....


25 posted on 09/24/2009 5:10:40 PM PDT by DontTreadOnMe2009 (So stop treading on me already!)
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