Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.
Posted on 09/21/2009 7:17:46 PM PDT by atomicweeder
I would respectfully like to offer my opinion as to why they birth certificate issue does not matter, and why it is harmful to the conservative cause.
WHAT IF OBAMA WAS BORN IN KENYA?
Let's assume it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama was born in Kenya. And let's assume that Federal judge somewhere rules that Obama is not qualified to be President. Obama would appeal and ndoubtedly the Supreme Court would issue a temporary stay, in the interest of stability, while they rule on the case.
Ultimately the SC would rule in Obama's favor. The legal justification would be that (1) there's no precedent definition of "natural-born citizen" and (2) the term "natural-born citizen" could be construed to include children of American citizens, even if born abroad.
In other words, the SC will find that the constitutional issues are not absolutely clear-cut, and SC will use that fuzziness to err on the side of stability and avoidance of chaos caused by unseating the President.
WHY THE BC ISSUE IS BAD FOR CONSERVATIVES?
It's a massive distraction. There are a lot of serious constitutional issues to deal with -- Obama's take over of GM, the banks, the stock market (to some degree), and attempted takeover of health care and cap and trade. Not to mention his complete capitulation of Russia, Iran, and North Korea, (and upcoming capitulation to Taliban).
Those are all serious problems with Obama. But the BC issue gets us all branded as "birthers" and if it is conclusively proven that Obama was born in Hawaii, we will all look like idiots.
INDONESIAN GO HOME
Well why enforce anything then ?
Then we ask the question, why spend millions of dollars in keeping it out of the light if that’s all it says?
I agree.
I pretty much agree, though it probably isn’t the most popular opinion here.
I tend to agree.
Much like the revere of what President Jackson is often quoted as saying of Chief Justice Marshall: “John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it!”
If the USSC did opine he was not qualified, who would enforce the ruling. His own Administration, the Attorney General, would not lift a finger. VP? SECDEF? Any other takers? I think not.
Congress, would do ... nothing. They have no way to enforce it. The Chief Law Enforcement office of the nation does not work for them.
The fact would be out but no one would care. Except, maybe (and that’s a big maybe) the people during the next election.
Wait a minute. If Obama was indeed born in Hawaii, then he’s a natural born citizen. If he’s born on American soil in an American state, he’s a natural born citizen, even though his father wasn’t American. Am I missing something else?
If he is not a NBC, the SCOTUS won’t have to worry about it. We’ll drag him out by his marxist ears and ship him back to Kenya
It doesn’t matter where he was born because he can’t be a natural born citizen.
To be a natural born citizen you need two parents who are citizens at the time you were born and one of his was not.
You can’t be a natural born citizen and owe allegiance to another nation and he does. He was even so proud of it that he originally posted about his duel citizenship on his web page during the election.
It’s a good question. Probably because he’s a very insecure individual and is unsure of how it would play out — not to mention it would push all of his goals off the front page while the court case ran its course.
BTW, why are you wasting time on such a time waster?
Nothing written in the Constitution matters. It’s just some old document. Let’s move on people.
First off, I’m not a birther. That being said...
I wholly disagree with your approximation of a supreme court response. The military *must* be commanded by a legitimate CiC, and the SC knows that making a ruling as you predict would force a military led overthrow of the presidency - guaranteed. It also would not surprise me if they instated a temporary government until either a special election or till the end of the natural term.
I think that a small enough group of conservatives are aiming at the topic that it doesn’t detract from the overall issues. So long as someone is still trying to get at the truth then we’re still managing to Alinsky the process.
In the end, the truth shall set you free. I don’t care what the “truth” is, I just know that I want it. You tell me why the man has spent over a million dollars now getting these cases dismissed when all he needs to do is hold it up and say “here, here it is” - and I don’t mean some photoshopped Kos-kid version either, I mean the one he refuses to release.
If what you say is true, then why are all these children of illegal aliens considered American citizens? In Obama’s case his mother was an American citizen. Some people don’t even have an official father, such as John Edwards’ mistress. She didn’t list a father on the birth certificate.
The issue is if he was born in Kenya, to a mother who is an American citizen.
Personally I don’t care if he gets removed from office because he isn’t qualified to serve as POTUS. I want his credibility shot so that he can no longer continue to force his Socialist agenda on the American people. That is exactly why this issue is being covered up by him and his people something is amiss. Legally nothing would/could be done to affect his position as President but exposure of the information will result in his losing credibility and being destroyed politically.
That would be very good for America at this point.
Now you need to answer this question.
I have written the White House requesting the name of Obama’s birth Doctor. Noting the historical relevance of the person that brought into the world the first black President and first President from the state of hawaii, I thought it relevant to recognize that indvidual by name with a substantial charitable contribution the the Children’s ward of the Hospital at which Obama was born the donation to be made in the name of the Doctor who birthed him.
To date I have not recevied an answer to that request, Why?
What harm could releasing that name cause? It would not even require releasing the entire Vault copy of the Birth Cert just the doctors name.
Congress could even but a resolution forth recognizing by building a medical library or college annex at the Hawaii medical school in his name.
Why?
You're missing any Constitutional basis for your claim. Does this count?
So, if he was born in Kenya, of an American mother, this is what the Supreme Court would have to deal with. The Court might well rule that it was okay for him to be elected.
I heard somebody say that even if this issue winds through the courts, it could take years, and Obama might be defeated in 2012 before this case is decided.
If you are born here you a native born citizen
but if your parents are not citizens at the time of your birth you can not be natural born citizen.
Man you made some Warp Speed Time Jumps .....jumpin over the RULE OF LAW is the first thing to come to mind.
Not just any Tom Dick or Hussain with a Bankroll can come cruisin in to DC and set up a PAC if they wanna.
Get Realistic, Being an American Born and Raised and 35 yrs of Age opens the Field up to a few million Americans, and NO Iranians, to fill the position of POTUS.
Norweigans need not apply.
Your final conclusion, that it is a distraction, is completely wrong.
If Obama were born in Kenya, and it came to light that he fought to conceal that fact from voters and the courts and falsely claimed a Hawaiian birth, then even if the Supreme Court ultimately were to rule that he is nevertheless a natural born citizen, most Americans would be outraged at the deception and he would not be electable to a second term as a practicable matter, since only the most hardcore leftists would vote for him.
He would be damaged irretrievably and would lose much of the moral and political power that naturally accrues to a president.
He’s not a Natural Born Citizen..PERIOD. I want him to release his long form Birth Certificate to determine whether he’s an illegal alien.
Of course, the current Congress wouldn't touch it. But, if the Republicans were to campaign to remove him from office after the 2010 elections, there would likely be a landslide in their favor. Then, they had better deliver.
On the other hand, if the Republicans did not make that commitment, they would be doomed to self-destruction -- just like the Whigs self-destructed over the issue of slavery.
BINGO
Yeah, you’re right. The law don’t mean jack. Let’s just kiss the boot.
The issue is if this President is Constitutionally eligible to remain in office.
Birth certificates, from where ever, are a deliberate sideshow. Obama has admitting being subject to the jurisdiction of another nation at birth. Therefore, he cannot be, as a state of nature, born into complete allegiance to the United States.
Allegiance is more than just a state of mind. It’s a legal matter. During times of war, while negotiating trade treaties, defense pacts, you name it, another nation having a legal claim upon the leader of our nation is a problem. That is why the requirement is there. Allegiance to the nation, under the sole jurisdiction of the nation, with the best interests of the nation at heart.
Someone born in the US, of noncitizen parents, is subject to legal claims by another nation under jus sanguinis. Someone born outside of the US, regardless of parentage, is in turn subject to legal claims under jus soli.
Either of these circumstances compromise a President and military Commander In Chief.
We will not be ruled by a foreigner.
BO himself said his father never became a citizen. This means—regardless of anything else—BO is NOT a natural-born citizen, and is therefore NOT eligible to be President.
BO’s loyalties are not with this land.
We need a President who can legitimately lead and protect us. BO isn’t it.
I agree with the first point. I see no scenario where he is unseated. However if Obama is shown to be unqualified the dems will take a MAJOR hit politically.
Your second point is bizarre. You think that since we can’t unseat Obama we should lay down on this issue? How about taking back the House? Is that worthy of our time? If Obama was shown to be unqualified the dems would take a MAJOR pounding. So that argument makes no sense.
We should demand the truth and demand that the Constitution be followed and let the chips fall where they may. This is a horrible precedent to let them slip by on.
And yes we can all chum gum and walk at the same time. I spend perhaps .005% of my time worrying about this issue. Just let the diehards out there pursue and see where it goes.
And the un-president holds a constitutional law degree so there can be no question that he was not aware that he was not qualified to run when he did.
Why do you think they claim racism every time someone says something about him ?
We have a ton of lawyers serving in congress , these people had to know that he did not meet the natural born citizen requirement. Guess they just didn’t want to open their mouths for fear of being called racist .
I stand corrected. If it can be proven that Obama was born in Kenya, it would damage the Democratic party. That makes it worth pursuing.
we better tell Bobby Jindal this neither of his parents were US citizens when he was born
let me see..... first it is stated in the very document this country was founded on the president must be a natural born citizen. Might as well do away with the constitution altogether if we dont live up to that one eh?
Second if it is proven that he is not a NBC then all legislation he signed is null and void.
Third he ca be tried for treason along with the rest of the Democratic party leaders who enabled him and were supposed to vet him.
I think that is more than enough reason to determine if Obama is an NBC or not.
That said I have to ask why is he allowing this travesty to continue when he could simply end it by producing the document in question.... why spend millions (of taxpayers money) to fight the claims? It makes me wonder....
The same logic could have been used to avert our civil war, which of course ended slavery in this country.
So making the argument that it doesn’t matter makes you a racist. (/jk)
If it were proven Barry was indeed born in Kenya, he would be subject to a whole host of criminal charges.
Perjury, mail and wire fraud to start with.
Each state would move to negate their states electoral college votes.
Congress may impeach a sitting president,not an impostor.
Barry would be a perpetrator, not a president.
If the Supreme Court were to hear this, wouldn’t the definition of “natural born citizen” been one of first impression?
If that is the case, do you think the Supreme Court is likely to agree with you that it means born on US soil to two US citizens, or that they will call born on US soil good, or and even looser standard of any birth that would confer citizenship on a person.
I’m not asking what you think the correct ruling would be, but what the likely majority opinion would be.
Actually Congress has the power to impeach.
You’d better believe all the screeching leftists who are mocking “birthers” will suddenly develop amnesia and turn into “birthers” themselves, if Bobby Jindal were to win the Republican nomination in 2012.
And, they’d get far more cooperation, legally and from the news media. It’s a genuine concern under the Constitution, and they’d have good reason to pursue the matter ... just as good a reason as we do now, but we’re getting little in the way of cooperation, just mockery.
They'll rule this--based on what?
The guiding context is that no President's qualifications as a "natural-born citizen" have ever been tested in the SC. That means no precedent, and that means SC has a relatively free hand to define "natural born citizen".
What makes you so very sure they'll define it in such as way as to legitimize BO's squatter presence in the White House?
True. Who enforces it?
Once they impeach the occupant of the White House packs his bags and just leaves in the night?
Can congress order the AG to send federal police to the WH and arrest the president (impeached President)? Guess they could pass a law? Would the current AG enforce it?
Besides, this current Congress would never allow it to occur.
I think it would keep him from being re-elected, at the very least.
Not only that, it would offer the Army ample justification to kill the USSC as obvious Traitors, there would be at least 5 witnesses (the justices voting yea) and they would be in a court of law AND, furthermore, it would be open admission thereof.... therefore, by the very Constitution they are sworn to uphold, they would be condemned.
Yes, and it would be up to Congress to charge him with those.
Each state would move to negate their states electoral college votes.
It wouldn't make any difference. The election(s) has been held, and the electors have voted.
Congress may impeach a sitting president,not an impostor.
Obama has been sworn in, so he's the sitting President. According to to the Constitution, only Congress can remove him.
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