Posted on 09/16/2009 7:02:22 AM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
NATO-led forces are investigating the death of four Marines in eastern Afghanistan after their commanders reportedly rejected requests for artillery fire in a battle with insurgents, the Pentagon said on Wednesday. Tuesday's incident was "under investigation" and details remained unclear, press secretary Geoff Morrell told a news conference. A McClatchy newspapers' journalist who witnessed the battle reported that a team of Marine trainers made repeated appeals for air and artillery support after being pinned down by insurgents in the village of Ganjgal in eastern Kunar province. The U.S. troops had to wait more than an hour for attack helicopters to come to their aid and their appeal for artillery fire was rejected, with commanders citing new rules designed to avoid civilian casualties, the report said.
(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...
Officers didn’t want to jeopardize their careers more than they didn’t want their men to die.
This needs to be spread everywhere.
There is absolutely NO reason for us to be in Afghanistan.
You can always tell when liberal democrats are in charge - everything gets %ucked up! Liberals are the enemy - murdered our boys!
There is absolutely NO reason for us to be in Afghanistan.
I agree, when we can’t defend our own men, we need to get out and get out NOW!
I smell an Obamaloon somewhere in the story.
Incompetence = Obamaloon crony.
Mogadishu redux. ROE’s have been changed to refelct hope and change. The hope is for the bad guys the change is our marines and grunts get no arty or air support.
I’m usually the last one to “defend” the Obama administration in any way, but let’s be brutally honest here . . . how is this incident any different than the U.S. military campaign in Lebanon in 1983?
FUBO
Obama hates Marines. Prove he doesn’t.
If this is an example of our new “rules of engagement”, then for the first time in my life I am going to side with liberals and say “it’s time to get out”.
Gee jun509. that was a purposeful post.
Now what would you have done?
What is your background
Please STFU.
Try supporting something other than you ignorant stupid ass position.
I am sure that there is space on the DU or DailyKos
I've been expecting this.
This might give pause to those considering service. It is vital to have faith in the chain of command if you're volunteering to be in harm's way.
The families of these Marines need to take Obama to court, prove to that he is or is not eligible to be the CIC. If he is not he needs to be tried for murder.
Well, @ least W was there long enough to win Iraq. Odds are though, from here on out...the dummies in control now will ABSOLUTELY screw the pooch on Afghanistan. :(
The U.S. military is filled with hacks who put their careers ahead of the safety of their subordinates. It's just as true in 2009 as it was in 1983.
In both cases, just think of how many decisions were made up and down the entire chain of command that caused these tragic results.
26 years and 911 lessons
Is 0b0z0 adopting the same ROI’s that LBJ did?
****DUmmie ALERT****
*****SURRENDER POST OF THE DAY*****
Meant ROE instead of ROI.
So, you were there on the ground watching and listening in on the decisions made? Please enlighten us with the details.
Read “Foreign Affairs” magazine by the Council on Foreign Relations before you throw insults.
American blood is being shed for $$.
The errors weren’t on the ground. The decisions not to use artillery were made by commanders whose careers were more important than the men on the ground.
Really? Please share the details of those command decisions to withhold fire support for this engagement, who made them and where they were made from specifically? Not your opinion.
Someone needs to get this to Drudge...!
Whether you like it or not, his conclusion seems obvious.
Apparently, it is your opinion that I cannot share my opinion unless I was there.
I assume you were there then or is that just your opinion?
Really, how so? Were you there on the ground too? Know all the details? Enlighten us.
You must have been involved, so tell us; why didn’t commanders honor the request of troops on the ground for artillery fire?
You must know. You must have been there. C’mon, what are the details?
“Really? Please share the details of those command decisions to withhold fire support for this engagement, who made them and where they were made from specifically? Not your opinion.”
No crap. Marine officers have their bad eggs, but fewer than any other branch (imho). If an officer receives ROE that say no artillery, then that’s the ROE. I don’t buy “bad officer” for a marine (or any branch, for that matter, but the marines in particular) until it’s proven by someone credible.
________________________________
Iraq ain't over.
So, we made a decision to send Marines into any area where they might be ambushed, and there was a rule in place that they could not be supported if attacked? Did this Marines know about this? I think not, since they knew to call for help.
Now, are we going to do the same thing again today? Or are we just giving up on seraching for the enemy?
If we are giving up our search, what is the expected outcome?
It sounds to me like we are willing to sacrifice Marines for the political positioning of the alleged Commander in Chief (de facto).
The point is to make the public clamber for a withdrawal from the territory to avoid wasting our troops. Then Obama will have political cover to withdraw the troops, claiming that is what the people want.
I truly hate the power structure that sacrifices the lives and fortunes of the people to stay in power. God help us all as we become weaker and weaker, and as the light of our example of freedom diminishes.
No, I wasn't there and I'm not armchair generaling and second guessing that commanders deliberately made the decisions you claim to save their careers as a statement of FACT, either. That's my point.
Officers didn’t want to jeopardize their careers more than they didn’t want their men to die.
Entered as a statement of fact- NOT an opinion.
Again, how do you come to your conclusion of stated fact? Are you part of the team that is investigating the incident?
__________________________________________
Military "campaign" in Lebanon? Get a clue.
The zero is nothing but another effing clinton/carter disaster.
I differ only in that I think he will be worse.
Yes, let's see who gets a fast-tracked promotion...
My point is that troops on the ground said that artillery would not endanger civilians and commanders (who weren’t there) ruled otherwise. 4 good Marines died because of that decision.
And now you are reduced to insisting that I made a statement of fact after you said I couldn’t share my opinion unless I was there. Obviously you recognized my statement as opinion first and are now arguing it was presented as fact?
Let me guess, you must be (have been) a commander, right?
That's my point. We simply don't know the details yet. There could be all sorts of primary reasons and contributing factors as to why this incident turned out the way it did. There's alot of knee jerking going on that is baseless until the facts and conclusions are gathered.
Of course, if you think otherwise, you could give us the particulars.
Project much? Your original statement is written as a conclusion of FACT.
Let me guess, you must be (have been) a commander, right?
Yes.
In this case you only have to look up to the top. The ROE, and the article says this, caused this, the ROE comes from Bozo, Bozo is the commander in chief and is responsible for this mess, directly responsible because he is the one who changed the ROE to not shoot back if civilians would be in danger. Quit apologizing for Bozo, you are showing your ignorance, or maybe your liberalism.
Um.....you mean...the Murtha and Zero "new rules" for losing the war and American lives? These aren't new rules. Same bs, same treasonous lefties, different day.
They pulled this crap in Viet Nam. They pulled this crap in Korea. They tried to pull this crap in Iraq. And now, once again, they are MAKING it so the US will LOSE.
God help me, I really hate these people in charge.
Pitchfork time YET?????
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