Posted on 09/12/2009 6:48:58 AM PDT by WesternCulture
If you have a look at the world of today from an economic point of view, you'll quickly find out that the Nordic countries (Scandinavia + Finland) is the richest part of the Globe (mesured by nominal GDP per Capita).
This is not a matter of coincidence and neither is it a matter of oil, at least not to a large extent.
For instance, the Danes earn the highest salaries on Earth and very few of them work for oil companies.
The Nordic countries are immensely wealthy because we focus on things in life like R&D, economic growth, education, infrastructure, trade and technology and manage to combine these concerns with traditional traits of Viking culture like love of hard work, lust of adventure, independence and a will of "looking after one's own house".
The day Sweden and Germany reach full infrastuctural integration, Japanese CEOs will commit harakiri/seppukus by the dozen.
The article:
Danish researchers have concluded that the nearly decade-old Öresund Bridge linking Sweden and Denmark is insufficient, proposing that a tunnel also be built between the two countries to facilitate the region’s growth.
The study, led by Otto Anker Nielsen, a professor in traffic patterns with the Centre for Traffic and Transport at the Technical University of Denmark, found that building a tunnel between Helsingborg on Sweden’s west coast, and the Danish city of Helsingör, would benefit the region and relieve stress on the Öresund Bridge.
According to Anker Nielsen, a transport link between the two towns is the best solution to cope with the region's expected future growth.
“The H-H connection is profitable from both an operational and societal perspective and is therefore clearly the best solution,” he writes, according to the Sydsvenskan newspaper.
The tunnel, he argues, will reduce congestion as well as contribute to the integration of the Öresund region.
The report was carried out at the request of IBU-Öresund, a cooperative infrastructure development project between communities in both Sweden and Denmark and includes four different proposals for tunnels ranging in price from 11 billion to 19 billion kronor ($142 – 270 million).
The least expensive proposal is for a tunnel only large enough for passenger trains, while the priciest suggestion includes funds for a both a cargo and passenger rail line, as well as an additional third stretch from Helsingborg to the Danish town of Snekkersten, and then on to Helsingör.
The third stretch would have a cargo rail track, as well as a track for a high speed passenger train with direct connections to Copenhagen.
The tunnel proposals were received well by regional politicians in southern Sweden.
“Another crossing is needed. In the future even more will be transported by rail so that makes initiatives like this a must,” Jerker Swanstein, chair of Region Skåne’s governing board, told Sydsvenskan.
He hopes that a tunnel connecting Helsingborg and Helsingör will be completed sometime between 2020 and 2025, but admits there is still work to be done to convince both the Swedish and Danish governments to invest in the project.
Knowing the Danes they will dig two tunnels: one to get to Sweden and the other to get back.....
European countries that get wealth from oil often invest it in research - other countries invest it armaments and terrorism.
If I were the Swedes I’d demand that tunnel be designed for quick demolition ~ you just never know when conditions will deteriorate when you are dealing with the Danes.
And yet, it is we who clean up come Nobel awards time. I’m a crazy-in-love-with-the US immigrant American nationalist, for what it’s worth.
- :D
Here's another way of looking at it;
Thanks to global warming, we Swedes can no longer invade Copenhagen using the winter ice between our nations.
Therefore, both our nation's will have to invest heavily in infrastructural projects like this.
As a Swede, I honestly feel Denmark deserves another attempt at reconquering Skåne/Scania:)
The Nordic countries are immensely wealthy because we focus on things in life like R&D, economic growth, education, infrastructure, trade and technology and manage to combine these concerns with traditional traits of Viking culture like love of hard work, lust of adventure, independence and a will of “looking after one’s own house”.
-—<>-—<>-—<>-—<>-—<>-—
All quite true.
America is quite similar, but the Nordics also have a very monolithic society, whereas 1/6th of the population here believes they are entitled to “special privileges” or “reparations” for some slight that happened a century ago.
“If I were the Swedes I’d demand that tunnel be deigned for quick demolition ~ you just never know when conditions will deteriorate when you are dealing with the Danes”
I would advise the same for the danes..
- Speaking of the Nobel awards, I'd like to apologize on behalf of my corner of the world for honoring Jimmy Carter and Al Gore with Nobel Prizes.
I love Americans, but I'm not overly impressed by American Liberals like them who are traveling the world drinking champagne and eating caviar while vilifying their own nation between the chews and sips..
Best of regards to all real Americans patriots out there!
What’s wrong with the gigantic bridge from Denmark to Sweden they just built?
http://goscandinavia.about.com/b/2007/11/19/the-bridge-between-denmark-and-sweden.htm
Grandpa called them the Dirty Danes. Can’t tell my Danish wife that story.
And wait for the Americans to rescue them after they are invaded by the country investing in armaments.
May not happen next time. The rescue, that is.
“...we who clean up come Nobel awards time.”
To an extreme!
Almost every award includes at least one American.
Also notice that many of the non American recipients live and work, and often have permanently immigrated to the U.S., but give their nationality as their former residence. (bastards — go home!).
Don’t bother analyzing the peace and literature awards — they are awarded based on evenly spreading the awards among countries, and other political considerations.
Contrary to popular liberal belief, a diverse society leads to a poor society. The more diverse the population, the more cynical politicians can exploit supposed wrongs of one group to the other. That of course leads to robbing one group to bribe another.
The uncertainty created by government robbery and bribery leads to short sighted investments and poorer people.
America has, but is steadily losing, a common American culture regardless of where an immigrant may be from. We are becoming more and more Balkanized and the Balkans are not known for their wealth and vibrant economy.
By the way, make sure the tunnel is not big enough for Grendel to fit through.
- Yes, in many ways the US is very much like Scandinavia.
Regardless of the problems you mentioned, America ought to be seen as a giant nation founded on Lutheran work ethics, entrepreneurship, classic Capitalism and the idea of independence.
This spirit has made America rich and despite the financial crises and the deficit, USA still is very much alive today.
By the way, IMO Norse culture has influenced Anglo-Saxon traditions and mentality in a benign manner for ages (and naturally, Britain and the US have contributed a lot to the development of Scandinavian prosperity).
There are two major aspects of this;
1. The Vikings and Viking descendants exercised a great deal of influence on British history.
2. Nordic immigrants played a major role shaping the US into the super power it is today (I can see on your home page here on Free Republic that you are from Minnesota, so I don't exactly have to lecture you on this topic I guess).
They haven’t completed the other bridge to let people drive back....and they got a deal on some shovels.
- In many ways you're right.
BUT, it's also a matter of pace.
Today, both Western Europe and USA is being invaded in an uncontrollable fashion by immigrants coming from the south/south east of our borders who don't share our values and believes.
If this phenomena took place at a slower pace, we probably would have been able to integrate them and adapt them to our way of life in a more successful way.
Why must the leading nations on Earth suffer from such ignorant and incompetent politicians?
I live in Minnesota and when I hear other European immigrants here (Italians) knock the Americans and refer to them (with a roll of the eyes) as Vikings, I always say to them that God built the world in 6 days and was sufficiently pleased with his creation as to give himself a day of rest. The Scandinavians came here, built themselves a city and were so pleased with their creation, that they built it’s twin across the river. There is no denying the contribution of Scandinavians to the Midwestern United States. Nobody else could have done what they were willing and able to do here. And I remain ever-impressed while I drive in my comfortable car and act like I’m shivering in my fabulously designed and densely packed down coat. Yay, Scandinavians!
*If only they weren’t so damn socialist! MN voted twice against Reagan. Simply shameful!*
- I found out after having replied to what you wrote that I made the mistake of confusing you with another poster to this thread who, unlike you is from Minnesota.
I apologize.
Anyhow, being from the state of New York, you might be aware that there are some strong ties between Sweden and the Bronx:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronx#History
However, Socialism is fraud and men like Castro will never make places like Cuba prosper.
One benefit from high national levels of education is that such qualities tend to counteract a Socialist mindset.
Very few Ericsson and Nokia engineers are Marxists.
The main reason you and I drive comfortable cars (I own a fully equipped Volvo V70, what a car!) is Capitalism, but for some reason “Capitalism” still is somewhat of a bad word in Scandinavian culture. Yet, things ARE definitely moving in the right direction.
Not to burst this 'civic pride' bubble too much, but understand that GDP and living conditions are not equal. I agree that the Scandinavian countries are probably some of the best places to live on earth, providing you like their climate and societies. But many years back, economists realized that GDP gave a misleading look at individual living conditions and came up with the concept of "Purchasing Power Parity" to give weight to what it costs to buy the same things in different countries.
One of the most popular applications of this concept is the Economist Magazine's annual "Big Mac Index' which (obviously) measures the cost of the local Big Mac Sandwich in the ubiquitous McDonald's Restaurant. As of the July 2009 Index, the US Big Mac goes for a national average of $3.57. Denmark is the straight exchange equivalent of $5.53, Norway $6.15 and Sweden the best at $4.93.
Add to this the high Scandinavian tax structures and the picture further changes.
America is quite similar, but the Nordics also have a very monolithic society, whereas 1/6th of the population here believes they are entitled to “special privileges” or “reparations” for some slight that happened a century ago.
Thank you! I realized this thread on Danish-Swedish transportation infrastructure was lacking something. Now I know that it was only missing the obligatory racist attack on black Americans.
Scandinavians currently have a very homogenous society. We’ll see how wealthy they are once that unassimilated islamic minority becomes larger and larger sucking up social benefits.
Only if there are enough idiots like yourself who listen to the cynical politicians.
Where would you rather live?
Singapore (diverse and one of the wealthiest nations on earth) or Cambodia (homogeneous and poor).
Brazil (diverse and relatively affluent) or Paraguay (homogeneous and starving)?
I did not say “blacks” because I didn’t mean that. There are millions of blacks who don’t desire “special privileges” or “reparations” and millions of whites who DO.
You are making false comparisons.
The question is not whether Cambodia is better off than Singapore. The question is would Cambodia be better off if it had 100 different ethnic groups, speaking 100 different languages, at each others’ throats. I would contend that if it aimed to become more diverse to solve its problems, they would just be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. The same observation could be made for Paraguay.
Singapore itself is not nearly so diverse in what is important as what you imply. Sure, they are quite diverse ethnically, but they are very monolithic in society and the business ethic. Anyone who does not want to fit in with Singaporean society is invited to leave and not come back. There are no Sharia law enclaves in Singapore, or any other enclave that does not support Singaporean society overall. They are not tolerated. The various ethnic groups are forced to become a contributing part of society, not remain separate.
I would not necessarily hold Brazil out as a shining example of successful diversity: large expanses of poverty with pockets of affluence. Besides, although it may not make the news often here, there are some rather severe ethnic tensions between the native Indians and those of European descent.
Is Canada better off for having its political energy and resources diverted to periodic Quebecois secessionist movements? I would guess not. The situation they have between English and French Canada is inherited and there’s not much they can do about it now, but are they better off with two Canadas bound together rather than one?
America in the early 20th century had the melting pot which took the diverse immigrants and turned them into monolithic (monolithic in the sense that everyone was expected to believe in the precepts of the Constitution) Americans. They became Americans first and Italians, Irish, etc. second. Even so, there were clashes between ethnic groups from time to time in the large cities. That was a cost of the benefits of immigration. The melting pot, however, did not try to create or maintain diversity; it tried to eliminate it.
In the late 70’s and 80’s the idea of the melting pot was becoming passe, and was replaced with the salad bowl, that is diverse ethnic groups that remain diverse in perpetuity. We have continued on that path. No one, however, benefits when any groups loyalty is to their ethnicity, language, or skin color at the expense of their loyalty to America.
There is an Roman proverb that goes like this: Concordia civium murus urbium (Harmony of citizens is the wall of cities). Not diversity.
Consulting the GDP per capita measurement, one is lead to believe it is Norway (or Luxembourg). However, a great deal of the Norwegian incomes from North Sea oil is tucked away in funds.
Norwegians live in nice homes and many families own a summer house and a decent powerboat or yacht on top of that. But do they live better than everybody else?
If we instead study purchasing power, USA seems richer than most other nations.
In terms of income, the Danes beat everyone else (like mentioned above).
But the issue here is material standard of living, not income, national wealth or sophisticated models of statistics created by engineers of advanced Economics.
Personally, I find this question interesting and hardly surprising, I've reached the conclusion that in terms of material standard of living, very few parts of the world can compete with Sweden.
Denmark sure is rich and in many ways it is a great little nation. But one thing I don't envy is Danish standard of living. Danes live in small overpriced houses and apartments and car consumption is discouraged just like it is in Norway.
In Norway, a car like the Volvo XC90 costs TWICE as much as it does in Sweden.
Just like Switzerland and the US, Sweden has been a rich country for a long time and this shows. In the US and Sweden, (comparatively) poor people today live in homes where middle class people lived 20-30 years ago.
Compton, L.A. is a good example. This neighborhood has a bad reputation, but the houses are not that bad from what I can tell.
When it comes to living space, Americans are blessed.
When it comes to high building standard the Swiss and the Swedes are blessed.
Swedish police never kick in doors. They have to rely on competent locksmiths.
But, how can I be so sure we Swedes enjoy the highest material standard of living on Earth?
The two most expensive products consumers ever purchase usually are
1. Their home
2. Their car
This is not the case regarding the typical Swedish family.
The average (not every, but the average) Swedish family own a house worth around 2-4 million SEK/Swedish kronor (crowns).
Swedish houses in that price range:
http://www2.bjurfors.se/bilder.aspx?OBJGUID=3M332EQUB9CRL353&OBJTYPE=CMVilla
http://www.svenskfast.se/Pages/ObjectViewPictures.aspx?objectid=3M6RIG5J7PKC4MPM
Apart from this, the Johansson/Andersson/Svensson family also owns a (usually smaller) second house, a “summer house”. This is a typical Swedish “sommarstuga” or “fritidshus”:
http://www2.bjurfors.se/bilder.aspx?OBJGUID=3KVQSSF54POUELLQ&OBJTYPE=CMFritidshus
What about Swedish car consumption?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1951658/posts
In any case, it is important to remember that all countries that are rich prosper because of successful capitalist enterprises.
Sweden might be more Socialist than several other nations, but everything that's admirable about Swedish prosperity is a result of well run capitalist multinationals, Lutheran work ethics and entrepreneurs like Ingvar Kamprad, founder and sole owner of IKEA.
- If Scandinavian Muslims would reproduce like Muslims do in Palestine, we would have a huge problem. But fortunately they do not.
Many Scandinavian Muslims function rather well in society. The ones who do so are often secularized Muslims who don't wish to have anything to do with Islam.
Most Muslim immigrants from Iran, Turkey and former Yugoslavia have adapted to our lifestyles, but other ones, especially those from Somalia, fail in this respect.
Just like the rest of Europe, Scandinavia will never become Muslim. But all of Europe must realize that the threat is real and strive to limit Muslim immigration.
Thank you for your ‘luxurious’ reply, it shows the length and depth possible in these forum for enhancing knowledge. My parents did one of the ‘Midnight Sun’ cruises into the Baltic in the 90s and came back very impressed with their visit to the shores of Scandinavia. I hope to make a similar trip in the not too distant future for my own education and enjoyment. Again thanks for your reply.
When I reread your reply, I felt that I just had to comment upon this statement. On US TV currently there is an expensive advertising campaign for and from a 'home security' company. The key feature of each ad is a single intruder easily shouldering/kicking open a front door only to be scared off by an alarm sounding off.
While I will grant that there are probably doors of that calibre still in use, the majority of doors are such that any competent home assaulter will never be so stupid as to try such an entry nor the police other than a cursory 1st attempt. Here in the hurricane-prone Southeast US, building standards and insurance are probably getting us closer to your Swiss/Swedish standards.
“While I will grant that there are probably doors of that calibre still in use, the majority of doors are such that any competent home assaulter will never be so stupid as to try such an entry nor the police other than a cursory 1st attempt. Here in the hurricane-prone Southeast US, building standards and insurance are probably getting us closer to your Swiss/Swedish standards.”
- Interesting.
Thanks for posting.
Swedish locksmiths probably could make a lot of money in the US if the dollar wasn’t in such a miserable state as it is today.
The Northern climes like Sweden have been urbanized for far longer than the tropical climes. In the SE United States, it is a fact that until air conditioning (a/c) was well developed, the population stayed low because unless you were a native, 100F/37C and 100% humidity was very unpleasant for months on end. Of course that is why you Swedes have your summer cottages and rich US Southerners had summer homes in the Appalachian Mountains.
Interesting.
Thanks for posting.
If we forget about the competetion aspect, we probably both agree Scandinavia as well as America boasts plenty of summer houses.
We deserve to be rich.
My grandfather grew up in poverty, worked harder than most people of today do.
He owned three summer houses at the age of 40 and a magnificent apartment in the city.
Work ethics pay off.
The city of Malmo, Sweden doesn’t support your opinion.
I do agree that there are some secular types, especially from Turkey. It’s my opinion that the secular types are a small minority. Once the percentage of muslim immigrants reaches the “critical mass” stage, the formerly secular types join with them.
On the planet where you dwell, all Christians are held hostage by small Muslim minorities.
I’m not saying it’s not impossible to turn back the invaders, I’m just saying it hasn’t happened yet. The Danes started to “get it” a few years ago and clamped down hard on immigration. The English are fed up and likely the next election Labor will get massacred at the polls.
Is it soon enough? That’s the big question.
Sweden is part of Scandinavia, they haven’t “got it” yet, and the original article was about Scandinavia.
More than likely before the next election in the USA amnesty for illegals will be passed and that will demographically put the nail in the coffin for conservatives in less than 50 years. The GOP will help to get it passed.
You’re a glass half full kind of guy, I’m a glass half empty type.
“I am confused about your claim that Swedes are better off than Norwegians.”
- We've discussed this earlier.
We both agree Norwegian salaries are way higher than Swedish ones and furthermore that Norwegian taxes are a little lower.
I've argued that Swedish homes, at least single family houses, are larger and better built than those found west of our border and I also recall bringing up the fact that car prices are much higher in relation to disposable income in Norway compared to my country.
In response to this, you pointed out that in the department of consumer electronics prices, it is the other way around. That indeed counts, especially as both Swedes and Norwegians spend amazing amounts on such goods. Another such thing is gas. In relation to income, gas is pretty cheap in Norway from a Swedish perspective.
Then there is, of course, the issue of services our beloved respective governments provide us with. “Quality” of education has little to do with MATERIAL standard of living. On the other hand, things like school computers per pupil/student do.
There are more (personal) computers per capita in Sweden than in Norway* (despite “cheap” Norwegian home electronics). Maybe this is because Norwegian schools are too poor/too old fashioned/too intelligent to rely on educational tools like computers.
* http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/med_per_com_percap-media-personal-computers-per-capita
In any case, I've often heard horror stories about Norwegian schools and health care. From Swedes, Norwegians, Americans living in Norway and others.
It's difficult for me to compare our nations in this regard, but my impression is that Norway lacks behind Sweden in sheer material resources when it comes to education and health care. It would be interesting to hear your opinion on this.
“Why do so many Swedes come to Norway to work and stay?”
- Most of the Swedes who work in Norway are young and are planning on earning cash in Norway and burning cash in Sweden.
Some of them fall in love, not only with a Norwegian man or women, but also all of the beauty that is Norway and settle there for good. Quite understandable to me, but all the same it was the opportunity of earning money in Norway and spending them in Sweden that made them move in the first place in man cases.
From what I can see, this has little to do with material standard of living and does not refute the fact that a Norwegian who is prepared to work hard over here in Sweden is likely to own a nice Swedish home and a car after some years.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.