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Spain's Solar-Power Collapse Dims Subsidy Model Article (Solar Power bubble popped!)
WSJ Online ^ | September 8th, 2009 | By ANGEL GONZALEZ and KEITH JOHNSON

Posted on 09/08/2009 6:50:49 AM PDT by 2banana

In 2008, Spain accounted for half the world's new solar-power installations in terms of wattage, thanks to government subsidies to promote clean energy. But late last year, as the global economic crisis worsened, the government dramatically scaled back those subsidies and capped the amount of subsidized solar power that could be installed.

Factories world-wide that had ramped up production of solar-power components found that demand for solar panels was plummeting, leaving a glut in supply and pushing prices down. Job cuts followed.

"The solar industry in 2009 has been undermined by [a] collapse in demand due to the decision by Spain," says Henning Wicht, a solar-power analyst at research group iSuppli.

...

As a result, Spain's solar capacity last year increased to 3,342 megawatts from 695 megawatts, the size of a coal plant, a year earlier. Government subsidies for solar power jumped to €1.1 billion ($1.6 billion) in 2008 from €214 million in 2007.

Solar power "was a financial product, not an energy solution," says Ignacio Sánchez Galán, chairman of Iberdrola, the world's biggest renewable-energy company. Iberdrola has largely shunned solar because wind power is cheaper and requires less land.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: energy; power; solar; spain
$1.6 Billion to replace ONE COAL PLANT!!!!
1 posted on 09/08/2009 6:50:50 AM PDT by 2banana
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To: 2banana

Isn’t it wonderful?


2 posted on 09/08/2009 6:52:06 AM PDT by wastedyears (The best aid we could ever give Africa would be thousands of rifles to throw out their own dictators)
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To: 2banana
"The solar industry in 2009 has been undermined by [a] collapse in demand due to the decision by Spain," says Henning Wicht, a solar-power analyst at research group iSuppli.

Right. That evil Spanish government has single-handedly caused the collapse of the solar industry. It has nothing to do with the fact that it fails in a free-market economy and is uneconomic without continual and eternal price supports by governments.

3 posted on 09/08/2009 6:53:59 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: 2banana

and a coal plant can produce energy 24/7


4 posted on 09/08/2009 6:54:14 AM PDT by Walkingfeather
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To: 2banana

That $1.6 billion was the government subsidy, NOT what the solar plant cost. If the government subsidized half of it, the cost was north of $3 billion.


5 posted on 09/08/2009 6:57:03 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: 2banana

Without massive subsidies, neither solar nor wind can replace coal or nuclear power for generating electricity.


6 posted on 09/08/2009 6:58:54 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." M. Thatcher)
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To: 2banana; OKSooner; honolulugal; Killing Time; Beowulf; Mr. Peabody; RW_Whacko; SideoutFred; ...
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

FReepmail me to get on or off

Ping me if you find one I've missed.


Another good article is wildmills as 'bird grinders' - and how the oil industry gets fined millions for harming even one eagle, but the wind power companies get off completely scott-free.
7 posted on 09/08/2009 6:59:27 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: 2banana

Never, ever, underestimate the damage that can be done when a politician dabbles in science.

There’s a reason they went into politics - and it ain’t public service.

It’s the fact that there is NOTHING ELSE THEY CAN DO.


8 posted on 09/08/2009 7:06:07 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: 2banana
The big problem with solar and wind is they produce zero potential energy, i.e., energy that can be used when needed, such as coal or oil. With the monumental finds recently of oil, shale and natural gas, the world will almost never run out. The only resource the luddites have is to demonize coal and oil. Thus enter the Global Warming fanatics.
9 posted on 09/08/2009 7:06:37 AM PDT by paul in cape
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To: 2banana
Nuclear power is the way to go.
10 posted on 09/08/2009 7:07:41 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Play the Race Card -- lose the game.)
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To: 2banana

The Spanish produced electricity for, IIRC, $615 a megawatt, as opposed to 95 cents per megawatt for Coal.


11 posted on 09/08/2009 7:08:30 AM PDT by agere_contra (We do not need a censorship of the press. We have a censorship by the press.)
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To: 2banana

The company that I used to work for had many eggs in one basket with a solar producer in Michigan.

Two months after I saved their butts in troubleshooting and fixing a major production problem, (Which cost nothing to repair) they eliminated my job and let me go after 18 years.

I just checked the stock price of the solar company and see that is is swirling down the toilet.

Yeehah!


12 posted on 09/08/2009 7:10:23 AM PDT by cyclotic (Boy Scouts-Developing Leaders in a World of Followers.)
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To: 2banana

Imagine if U.S. government projects that compete with commercial providers had to meet some profit target, even just 0.5%, in order to continue.


13 posted on 09/08/2009 7:12:05 AM PDT by polymuser ("We have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" (HRC))
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To: ClearCase_guy

amen.....

“A little nookie never hurt anybody” Bumper sticker purchased from a Larouche airport table


14 posted on 09/08/2009 7:13:24 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . fasl el-khital)
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To: 2banana
What????!!

Wind power is “MUCH CHEAPER” and requires less land???????!!

It takes 1350 wind turbines to equal one coal fired plant, each occupying 5 acres of land, plus all the spider web of extremely UGLY transmission lines that are required to move this stupidity to any nearby grid. The Coal Plant occupies about 20 acres, while the extremely inefficient and costly wind farm occupies 6,700 acres of land to do the same thing. (Not including the transmission lines)

Not only that, but the long term maintenance costs and difficulties of these systems will force electrical costs to more than double due to that aspect alone.

But these people know this and will lie cheat and steal to have their way, simply because they believe they are moraly correct and are above logical scrutiny.

15 posted on 09/08/2009 7:16:28 AM PDT by PSYCHO-FREEP (Give me LIBERTY or give me an M-24A2!)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
simply because they believe they are moraly correct and are above logical scrutiny.

Its about the money.

16 posted on 09/08/2009 7:21:38 AM PDT by Dan(9698)
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To: 2banana

What does a coal plant cost? At least, one that generates as much electricity as these solar installations collectively do? And what of the cost of fueling and operations over, say, 20 years?


17 posted on 09/08/2009 7:26:20 AM PDT by RonF
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
Captain Obvious, I presume?

;^)

18 posted on 09/08/2009 7:27:09 AM PDT by SAJ (way too late to 'work within the system'. just about time for rebellion)
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To: 2banana
As a result, Spain's solar capacity last year increased to 3,342 megawatts from 695 megawatts, the size of a coal plant,

And that's very confusing syntax. Is the size of a coal plant a) 695 MW, b) 3,342 MW, or c) (3,342-695) MW?

19 posted on 09/08/2009 7:27:38 AM PDT by RonF
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To: paul in cape

True, but there are various mechanisms to store the energy and release it later. You pay a price for that, but they do exist.


20 posted on 09/08/2009 7:29:26 AM PDT by RonF
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To: RonF
A hell of a lot less. Fueling over 20 years? In America? Don't make me laugh...coal is dirt cheap compared to ANY other energy-generating method. Look at $/MMBTU comparisons published by EIA every week.

Sheesh.

21 posted on 09/08/2009 7:30:50 AM PDT by SAJ (way too late to 'work within the system'. just about time for rebellion)
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To: 2banana; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp; thackney; Southack; PhilDragoo; CPT Clay
I'm glad to see this posted again. I read it when it came out.

Just think:

1. Ethanol--heavily subsidized and most Major Players in US now Bankrupt or shutting down.

2. Spain proves that even heavily subsidized solar will fall.

3. Wind--most major wind projects now being opposed by the same Gang Green armies that oppose Oil, Gas, Coal & Nukes.

Back to ethanol--What major SA country ethanol producer is now, with massive loan guarantees from US & China, developing and TRUMPETING a major, world class offshore OIL FIELD.

22 posted on 09/08/2009 7:35:25 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER (,)
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To: 2banana; xcamel
I have found at least one beneficial and economical use for solar panels; I can put one on the roof of my truck while it is parked, and it keeps the battery topped off.

That way I know that it will start right up and ignite that powerful gasoline.

23 posted on 09/08/2009 7:35:45 AM PDT by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: The Great RJ

Even with unlimited subsidies neither can work.


24 posted on 09/08/2009 7:37:51 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: 2banana

I haven’t noticed anyone posting it yet, and maybe most folks are not aware of it, but our Obama government is in the process of planning for a solar powered generation system here in the desert of Southern California. It is to be located along the Interstate 10 corridor between Indio and the state line at Blythe. The proposed project is HUGE.


25 posted on 09/08/2009 7:40:17 AM PDT by CdMGuy
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To: BOBTHENAILER

Great summary.

Remember the correct term is Mythanol not ethanol.

The answer to your question may be in this search link:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&fr=slv8-hptb5&p=new+brazil+oil+find&rs=1&fr2=rs-top


26 posted on 09/08/2009 7:42:21 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Does 0b0z0 have any friends, who aren't traitors, spies, tax cheats and criminals?)
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To: CdMGuy
our Obama government

Leave me out, okay?

:-)

27 posted on 09/08/2009 7:47:52 AM PDT by upchuck (New sign on my truck: Are you a "Hope and Change" regretter?)
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To: The Great RJ
Without massive subsidies, neither solar nor wind can replace coal or nuclear power for generating electricity.

Yes and no. If you run an energy-intensive industry, you need 24/7 baseload power. But prices for solar cells have halved over the last year. We're getting close to a point where it makes sense for WalMart (large commercial buildings, access to credit and / or cash at hand) to cover its roofs with solar cell to run the daytime air conditioning rather than pay peak rates. And that would be regardless of subsidies.

The car didn't replace the train as the dominant mode of transportation all at once, it first conquered specific niches. And that is the point where solar is right now. Where we go from there is up to the market to decide (how will the price for coal, for natural gas, for uranium develop, or in the case of solar cell manufacturing: high-grad silicon or arsenic?).
28 posted on 09/08/2009 7:49:50 AM PDT by wolf78 (Inflation is a form of taxation, too. Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender.)
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To: 2banana; SierraWasp; Jeff Head; tubebender; ASA Vet; george76; NormsRevenge; BOBTHENAILER

Thanks for posting this.

Those of us who have been on this globe for many decades have seen/heard the bs stories of the wonders of solar/wind power and alternate fuel sources for most of those decades.

The only way they can even come close to existing is via massive govermental subsidies.

If we had invested the money wasted on those so called green sources into searching and drilling for oil in the states and off our shores and building new oil/gasoline refineries, the middle east would be begging us to buy their oil at very cheap prices.

Of course neglecting nuclear power and clean coal power has been a disaster for us, also.


29 posted on 09/08/2009 7:50:09 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Does 0b0z0 have any friends, who aren't traitors, spies, tax cheats and criminals?)
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To: BOBTHENAILER; Dog Gone; Grampa Dave; thackney; Ernest_at_the_Beach

That bees... BP! British Petroleum!!!


30 posted on 09/08/2009 8:35:26 AM PDT by SierraWasp (Obama Targets Medicare Advantage Plans (Seniors Are Getting Screwed!!!))
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To: wolf78
Where we go from there is up to the market to decide

Exactly. It would be foolish for anyone (individual, company, government) to look at alternative energies as a one-size-fits-all solution.

Alternative fuels - in their current form - are excellent for specific applications. Local (off-grid, home) power, and hot water come immediately to mind.

However, to try and apply the same tech that works well in miniature to a national scale is foolishness. And, to have the gov't attempt to pound that particular square peg into a round hole with the use of massive subsidies, is foolishness of the highest order.

31 posted on 09/08/2009 9:06:49 AM PDT by wbill
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
Solar power "was a financial product, not an energy solution," says Ignacio Sánchez Galán, chairman of Iberdrola, the world's biggest renewable-energy company. Iberdrola has largely shunned solar because wind power is cheaper and requires less land.

This guy was comparing WIND power to SOLAR power, not a coal fired plant.

32 posted on 09/08/2009 9:11:04 AM PDT by Paradox (ObamaCare = Logan's Run ; There is no Sanctuary!)
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To: SAJ

***..coal is dirt cheap compared to ANY other energy-generating method.***

Years ago, when I went to work in a coal fired power plant, it was pointed out to me that every time you turn on a light, you are actually using solar power converted by vegetation that grew milions of years ago and turned into carbon.


33 posted on 09/08/2009 9:12:13 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Tar and feather the sons of b!#ches! Ride them out of town on a rail!)
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To: wolf78

***or in the case of solar cell manufacturing: high-grad silicon or arsenic?).***

Just wondering...How well does a solar cell hold up in a serious hail storm, say golf ball or larger sized hail stones? Or when a big tree limb is blown down and hits the pannels.


34 posted on 09/08/2009 9:17:08 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Tar and feather the sons of b!#ches! Ride them out of town on a rail!)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
True enough, but the process is rather too slow for practical day-to-day application.

;^)

35 posted on 09/08/2009 9:27:55 AM PDT by SAJ (way too late to 'work within the system'. just about time for rebellion)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Just wondering...How well does a solar cell hold up in a serious hail storm, say golf ball or larger sized hail stones? Or when a big tree limb is blown down and hits the pannels.

I'd say as a rule of thumb: If it doesn't break your windows, your solar panel should be fine. I guess there's a market for solar cell insurance and the real risk is factored into the insurance premiums. But then again, no type of power generation is perfect. If you have a record heatwave / drought conditions you'll e.g. run into cooling problems with a nuclear reactor.
36 posted on 09/08/2009 9:41:39 AM PDT by wolf78 (Inflation is a form of taxation, too. Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender.)
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To: BOBTHENAILER

Amen, thanks for the ping!


37 posted on 09/08/2009 10:11:56 AM PDT by CPT Clay (Pick up your weapon and follow me.)
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To: 2banana; Normandy; According2RecentPollsAirIsGood; TenthAmendmentChampion; Horusra; Delacon; ...
 


Beam me to Planet Gore !

38 posted on 09/08/2009 10:34:29 AM PDT by steelyourfaith ("Power is not alluring to pure minds." - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; SAJ
vegetation that grew milions of years ago and turned into carbon.

Maybe not. See The Deep Hot Biosphere : The Myth of Fossil Fuels by Prof. Thomas Gold of Cornell.

The reviews include this comment:

You have given many very good arguments, and I am convinced. -- Hans Bethe, Nobel Laureate

39 posted on 09/08/2009 12:14:01 PM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
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To: slowhandluke

BUMP!


40 posted on 09/08/2009 1:52:40 PM PDT by Publius6961 (Obama Garden Club: Nothing but plants.)
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To: SAJ

At your service. Just like to set things straight. There are still a lot of people who believe in the pie in the sky.


41 posted on 09/08/2009 5:50:16 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

You and I are all square, m’FRiend. Pie-in-the-sky, or, as I like to call it, ‘The Big Rock-Candy Mountain Syndrome’, needs to be debunked at every turn, and best wishes in your efforts along these lines.


42 posted on 09/08/2009 8:09:38 PM PDT by SAJ (way too late to 'work within the system'. just about time for rebellion)
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