Posted on 09/03/2009 8:16:17 PM PDT by marktwain
George Boggs thought he was doing police a favor last week when he handed over the firearm he kept in his car after he was in a wreck.
Boggs has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, and he wanted his handgun secured while he went to the hospital, he said. The permit requires him to notify police of his weapon.
On Monday, when he went to the Fayetteville Police Department to retrieve his gun, he couldn't get it back. He was told that police first wanted to fire the gun to see if the spent shell casing and round would match data in a nationwide ballistics inventory used to solve crimes.
The gun is scheduled to be test-fired today, he was told.
Boggs complained to police supervisors that his new gun has never been fired. The ballistics test, he said, would diminish the value of the .45-caliber Taurus Millennium he bought last month for $399 at a local gun store.
He said the city is violating his Fourth Amendment rights that protect him from unreasonable searches and seizures.
Police defend their decade-old policy of checking most handguns that come into their custody - no matter the reason - to see if they have been used in a crime. They say public safety outweighs any inconvenience to the owner.
Boggs said he did nothing wrong. He was not arrested. The gun was not taken from a crime scene. The other driver in the Aug. 14 accident was cited, a police report says.
"If they can get away with this, then they can get away with other things," he said.
Boggs, 70, is a retired Army sergeant first class who is running for City Council this fall against incumbent Robert Massey in District 3. He said his fight over the police policy is not politically motivated.
Sgt. John Somerindyke said in situations such as this, police can't assume a weapon has never been used.
"We have to be consistent with our policy," he said. "We have had some hits doing this."
Somerindyke said that since 2003, the ballistics tests have identified 32 guns that were used in crimes in Cumberland County.
Since 1999, the Police Department has sent most handguns taken into custody to the Cumberland County Sheriff's Office, where the ballistics examination is done free for law enforcement agencies. The information is entered into the Integrated Ballistics Identification System, which is like a database of fingerprints for guns. Shell casings recovered at crime scenes can be matched with guns previously entered into the database.
Since January, the police agency has sent 331 guns and 315 shell casings and rounds to the Sheriff's Office for testing.
Boggs said he is talking with officials at the National Rifle Association about his situation. A representative of the NRA could not be reached for comment this week.
Tiffanie Sneed, the Police Department's lawyer, said the gun-testing policy helps make the community safer. People sometimes buy guns not knowing they have been used in crimes. The weapons are returned to their owners if the tests show they were not used in crimes, she said.
"Due to the gravity of the subject matter, we don't deviate from this policy, as long as the weapon meets the IBIS criteria," she said.
Boggs said others with concealed-weapon permits could be less likely to tell police they have a gun, for fear of it being taken and tested.
According to Debbie Tanna, a Sheriff's Office spokeswoman, all firearms are tested at the factory before being sent to dealers. Bernard Barr, who helps manage Guns Plus in Spring Lake, said he doesn't believe that's true. Some manufacturers don't test weapons before shipping them, he said. That includes the Taurus Millennium model that Boggs bought, he said.
Barr said firing a new weapon for ballistics doesn't necessarily lower its value.
Barr said he personally has no qualms with the police testing weapons seized as evidence - but not guns voluntarily surrendered for safe-keeping.
"It's like taking DNA from every citizen," he said. "Why investigate something that is not a crime? It just doesn't make sense."
4th amendment?
Get an attorney....
No one has any authority or right to violate the rights of others. Period. And any rights or powers government may have come from the citizens. So if an individual citizen has not the right, from whence can the government obtain it? We do not recognize any "divine right" of bureaucrats, nor do we have a class of nobles who may do as they please to the common folk.
Public serpents who don't respect the above truths are guilty of treason, and should be tried and sentenced accordingly.
So many wrong things coming out of the police’s mouths on this one it’s not even funny.
RoboCop “Thank you for your co-operation”.
“Somerindyke said that since 2003, the ballistics tests have identified 32 guns that were used in crimes in Cumberland County.”
This is where I might suggest they take some remedial classes in basic police work...
Fixed it. There it is again. Collective rights vs. individual rights. Classic Marxist thought.
It’s called Fayettenam for reason.
Last I heard. The police need a warent to “search” your property.
Hey, if he ain't shot anybody, what does he have to fear? /s
$399.00 for a Taurus?
I'm sorry,but how can you maintain proficiency if you never fire your weapon?
I,m just sayin'.
“4th amendment?”
Bingo!
No Probable cause to believe a crime has been committed.
Warrantless Search.
Just to weed out the BS factor.
Do they check all people they contact to see if they are in the US Legally?
The same thing really. A fishing expedition.
Why couldn’t this happen to me?!! I would have more money than I could ever count.
Easy. Practice with one, carry the other.
he is damn lucky they didnt make him pay the cost of the testing to get his gun back.
See above...
The Police Spokesperson “Claims” All Manufacturers test fire their weapons. That is a Lie thru misdirection.
Yes, All Manufacturers Proof test their weapons.
But, If a Manufacturer does not intend to sell their weapons in Maryland or a couple other States They DO NOT Test fire the Weapon for the purpose of providing a fired brass casing.
A few Manufacturers have chosen Not to do business in those States.
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got that right => corrupt Cumberland Co.
Not if you hand it over voluntarily.
Lesson, DON'T GIVE THEM YOUR GUN(S)!
Public safety trumps the Constitution? Really? I believe the quote goes something like this:
"The man who would choose security over freedom deserves neither." - Thomas Jefferson.
This should get you started......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
I don't know for a fact if Taurus test-fires its products or not.
Not too far off. MSRP is $482.82 according to Lipsey's. But I'm sure you could find one for much less....
I found them for $370 or $382 at Davi's guns in Raleigh NC.
Indeed. Most large hospitals have property rooms and their own security/police. He could have kept it and told the hospital staff and had it secured there.
“Attn. Gen. Bill Lockyer, Calif. Dept. of Justice, Jan. 2003 (referenced here as CAAGR). The CAAGR documents that shell casing “ballistic fingerprints” varied so greatly, even in a laboratory trial, that 38% of trial guns firing ammunition from the same manufacturer couldn't match the second shell casing fired from the gun with the first — the guns were all new semi-automatic pistols purchased for the California State Police. Also, under laboratory conditions, when the second shell casing was from a different source of ammunition than the first, 62% of the second casings could not be matched to the first.”
LOL
Dude, never give anything over to the cops voluntarily. “Hey, Mr. Policeman, you’re not going to search my trunk, are you?”
“Barr said firing a new weapon for ballistics doesn’t necessarily lower its value.”
What a stupid statement. First of all, the owners manual sold with new hanguns state that the user should clean the weapon before using it for the first time. Secondly, what does this clown mean by “necessarily”? If there is any chance of compromising the weapon then don’t do it.
True, but leaving a firearm in their custody is probably viewed as a form of consent. IIRC, there's a U.S. Supreme Court decision or two dealing with searches of impounded property; this probably would be viewed similarly.
“public serpents” LOL! You got that right!
So in North Carolina the proper procedure if you have an accident with a weapon in your car and you are transported to the hospital, is to keep your mouth shut about it and tell no one.
If the weapon then gets stolen by the tow truck driver, the employees of the storage yard or a burglar of the storage yard, then just report it stolen and try to recover the loss from your insurance company.
He needs to work on his rhetoric. You know they could do....other...stuff, you know!
But if they’re sending you the brass it was done for Quality Control and not Citizen Control.
Nice
I hope he's a member in good standing. I have a problem with the 75 million gun owners who won't help the NRA but when they get into trouble, the NRA is the first one they call.
The NRA is involved with an average of sixty legal cases a year. That's a lot of lawyer fees.
The last high profile case involved a traveler who who had a connecting flight out of New York. His flight was cancelled so he took possession of his firearm. That was a mistake.
If you have a connecting flight in a gun banning city, don't ask for your firearms. Allow the transportation company to hold your goods until they can be transported out by the next connection.
Most? Not all? Then they don't have a policy at all, they are just fishing and wasting money.
And I’ll bet that all 32 guns were taken from people that were already suspected of committing a crime.
And I’ll bet that all 32 guns were taken from people that were already suspected of committing a crime and not just from random seizures.
No, not quite. I thin that ALL manufacturers test fire any gun for common usage. Now, to be fair, they probably don’t test fire the gold-inlaid Colt 1911 commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Hula Hoop or other collectible pieces.
You totally missed the point of the post.
So, You believe that all Manufacturers, Test Fire All Weapons, in order to supply a Fired Brass Case to the State of Maryland for inclusion in their Forensic database, even though they have made the Decision Not to do business in Maryland?
You also don’t believe that Manufacturers “Proof Test” their weapons? It’s a Liability issue.
No, they just test fire them. The guy said that firing the gun would reduce the value. My point was that it had already been fired.
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