Posted on 09/03/2009 6:00:12 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
WASHINGTON – Even as liberals urge President Barack Obama to demand bold, far-reaching changes to the nation's health care system, the White House signaled openness Thursday to compromises that might attract moderate congressional Democrats as well as some Republicans.
Obama believes in "fundamental principles" about overhauling health care, top presidential adviser David Axelrod told The Associated Press, but "he's not dogmatic about how we get there."
Axelrod's comments did not definitively answer how hard Obama will push for the most ambitious parts of his proposal, including health insurance for virtually all Americans and a government-run plan to compete with private insurers. But his diplomatic tone was in keeping with the administration's approach of refusing to flatly demand several parts that are dear to Democratic activists who helped elect him.
Those are the type of conciliatory hints that frustrate many liberals.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
How 'bout... no chance in hell?
The devil is in the details.
US President Barack Obama, seen here in August 2009. Obama headed back out on vacation Wednesday, trailed by a string of political challenges requiring his urgent attention, including his stuttering health reform drive and Afghanistan. (AFP/Mandel Ngan)
Get out of Cheney’s house!
Start with a simple Premise... Government cannot manage healthcare and should not be in the Healthcare business between the Doctors and the Patients.
Now we can talk.
He is willing to get anything passed regardless of what it is. He will then slide all kinds of crap in when no one is looking.
U.S. President Barack Obama waves after walking out of the Oval Office before departing the White House in Washington for the Presidential retreat in Camp David September 2, 2009. REUTERS/Larry Downing (UNITED STATES POLITICS)
We know what compromise gets you...
“Beware incremental government options”
Myth.
The bills are fascist-care, Super Romney care, government working as an arm of the insurance companies.
Jennifer Loven Obamapropaganda.Ask for it by name.
Yep ...
No bill
Tort reform first.
“not dogmatic about how we get there”
Define “There” Dufuss....DETAILS you Idiots ! !.....We are tired of Congress passing Laws they don’t even read....and we are FAST getting tired of LYING SOBs in DC.
Read your Polls .... losing has consequences and the latest score is...
Health Care 3
Constitution 76
in a lopsided loss at home.
No Quarter! This is a fight to the death................red
#1 The tort reform you mention. It really compared to #2.
#2 Remove all the union monopolies in government. From the teacher's union to all the government employees and all their pensions.
Only offer fire, police a modest pension from government. The rest needs to be purged. They are sucking the life out of America.
One of the main things government was to do was to PREVENT monopolies, yet the government unions are exactly that.
They pay politicians who hire more of them, raise their pay and greatly exaggerate their benefits.
It is outrageous and unethical.
Government employee pay and benefits should never exceed private sector average compensation.
#2 was much more a problem I meant to say in my prior post.
"The half '-sucker', that's merely suggestive." -- George Carlin, 'Seven Words'
Sure, they will compromise at the point of a gun.
Come and take it you red sons of bitches, what army you bringing?
Compromizing with communists is really bad for ones health. Millions upon millions are in their graves after doing just that....History people...history. This is nothing new.
Sucker play.
FUBO. No compromise. Kill the bill. I am actively letting my congress critters know exactly what will happen to them should they fall for this crap.
NO single payer, NO public option, NO co-ops, NO “trigger” legislation!!!
Where’s Obama while Los Angeles burns??? That’s one long vacation he’s been on. This is federal land that’s burning.
If Bush were still president, the media would be savaging him for not appearing in California. In fact, the Feds have been blamed for not clearing away brush in the Angeles National Forest, which is going up in flames at the moment. Where is the president???
Here is the compromise. Crawl back under your rock!
The only viable strategy for Obama now is to slow down and not set specific deadlines for legislation. We citizens are still unsure what’s true and what’s a lie, what secret motivations are behind the proposals, and what impact the proposals will have on our society.
It is clear to most citizens that the new administration thinks it has a license to do anything it wants and do it in a hurry. The resistance to that approach has been building for months and the administration has failed to see it. They have plunged ahead and ruined their reputation, not only by plunging ahead but by lying, and Obama is establishing himself as someone who doesn’t know how to lead this nation. They have exposed themselves. We now know their philosophy of governing. We know that below the surface the philosophy won’t change and we’ll have to be on guard as long as that team is heading our government.
No compromise. No Health Control.
Amen to that! I read the other day that SEIU retirees in Silicon Valley are hauling down $114,000 per year in pension starting at age 55. If you last 30 more years, you are retiring a multimillionaire on the public dole. This is absolutely outrageous especially because there’s hardly a company left paying defined benefits anymore.
No compromise.
Either bring real REFORM and not overhaul or no compromise.
ANOTHER vacation outing? What, he was at the White House for 3 or 4 days? Too bad his pay is not commensurate with his ability. We could be out of debt in short order if we were not forced to pay his salary and bennies.
Yep. Good old "independent" Lyndseed GraHAM will join his RINO buddies for sure. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2331731/posts
What, another vacation already??? The slimy bastard just got back from 2 weeks off.
He averages 2 days on, 5 days off. And from what I understand his 2 days in the office consist mainly of wandering the hallways and poking his head in offices of RATs at work. The 0bozo idiot is incapable of concentrating for very long on anything.
There is no reason to ever negotiate, nor compromise with a Leftist on any matter having to do with our form of government period. That said, there is no reason to ever compromise with Obama on Healthcare period.
Kill the bill. It’s design is not American. It’s design is for some foreign Nation that doesn’t have a Constitution the likes of ours.
They can Drop Dead on that!
I knew this crap would be floated by Fri. (they are early)
Beware of they’re language parsing.
SCRAP HR 3200!!!!!!
HR 3200 is tainted beyong salvation, It is interlaced with social control provisions which if any are left, will decrease the freedom of every American, including children,
under the plan.
You can see the more egregious sections of HR 3200 right here:( especially the breach of IRS privacy in s. 431 and s. 312, tax info to HMOS and other federal agencies)
1. WILL THE PLAN RATION MEDICAL CARE?
This is what the bill says, pages 284-288, SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS:
‘(ii) EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN READMISSIONS.—For purposes of clause (i), with respect to a hospital, excess readmissions shall not include readmissions for an applicable condition for which there are fewer than a minimum number (as determined by the Secretary) of discharges for such applicable condition for the applicable period and such hospital.
and, under “Definitions”:
‘‘(A) APPLICABLE CONDITION.—The term ‘applicable condition’ means, subject to subparagraph (B), a condition or procedure selected by the Secretary . . .
and:
‘‘(E) READMISSION.—The term ‘readmission’ means, in the case of an individual who is discharged from an applicable hospital, the admission of the individual to the same or another applicable hospital within a time period specified by the Secretary from the date of such discharge.
and:
‘‘(6) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review under section 1869, section 1878, or otherwise of— . . .
‘‘(C) the measures of readmissions . . .
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. This section amends the Social Security Act
2. The government has the power to determine what constitutes an “applicable [medical] condition.”
3. The government has the power to determine who is allowed readmission into a hospital.
4. This determination will be made by statistics: when enough people have been discharged for the same condition, an individual may be readmitted.
5. This is government rationing, pure, simple, and straight up.
6. There can be no judicial review of decisions made here. The Secretary is above the courts.
7. The plan also allows the government to prohibit hospitals from expanding without federal permission: page 317-318.
2. Will the plan punish Americans who try to opt out?
What the bill says, pages 167-168, section 401, TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE:
‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer. . . .”
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGE:
1. This section amends the Internal Revenue Code.
2. Anyone caught without acceptable coverage and not in the government plan will pay a special tax.
3. The IRS will be a major enforcement mechanism for the plan.
3. what constitutes “acceptable” coverage?
Here is what the bill says, pages 26-30, SEC. 122, ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE DEFINED:
(a) IN GENERAL.—In this division, the term ‘‘essential benefits package’’ means health benefits coverage, consistent with standards adopted under section 124 to ensure the provision of quality health care and financial security . . .
(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:
(1) Hospitalization.
(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .
(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.
(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .
(5) Prescription drugs.
(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.
(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.
(8) Preventive services . . .
(9) Maternity care.
(10) Well baby and well child care . . .
(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .
(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. The bill defines “acceptable coverage” and leaves no room for choice in this regard.
2. By setting a minimum 70% actuarial value of benefits, the bill makes health plans in which individuals pay for routine services, but carry insurance only for catastrophic events, (such as Health Savings Accounts) illegal.
4. Will the PLAN destroy private health insurance?
Here is what it requires, for businesses with payrolls greater than $400,000 per year. (The bill uses “contribution” to refer to mandatory payments to the government plan.) Pages 149-150, SEC. 313, EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE
(a) IN GENERAL.—A contribution is made in accordance with this section with respect to an employee if such contribution is equal to an amount equal to 8 percent of the average wages paid by the employer during the period of enrollment (determined by taking into account all employees of the employer and in such manner as the Commissioner provides, including rules providing for the appropriate aggregation of related employers). Any such contribution—
(1) shall be paid to the Health Choices Commissioner for deposit into the Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund, and
(2) shall not be applied against the premium of the employee under the Exchange-participating health benefits plan in which the employee is enrolled.
(The bill then includes a sliding scale of payments for business with less than $400,000 in annual payroll.)
The Bill also reserves, for the government, the power to determine an acceptable benefits plan: page 24, SEC. 115. ENSURING ADEQUACY OF PROVIDER NETWORKS.
5 (a) IN GENERAL.—A qualified health benefits plan that uses a provider network for items and services shall meet such standards respecting provider networks as the Commissioner may establish to assure the adequacy of such networks in ensuring enrollee access to such items and services and transparency in the cost-sharing differentials between in-network coverage and out-of-network coverage.
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. The bill does not prohibit a person from buying private insurance.
2. Small businesses—with say 8-10 employees—will either have to provide insurance to federal standards, or pay an 8% payroll tax. Business costs for health care are higher than this, especially considering administrative costs. Any competitive business that tries to stay with a private plan will face a payroll disadvantage against competitors who go with the government “option.”
3. The pressure for business owners to terminate the private plans will be enormous.
4. With employers ending plans, millions of Americans will lose their private coverage, and fewer companies will offer it.
5. The Commissioner (meaning, always, the bureaucrats) will determine whether a particular network of physicians, hospitals and insurance is acceptable.
6. With private insurance starved, many people enrolled in the government “option” will have no place else to go.
5. Does the plan TAX successful Americans more THAN OTHERS?
Here is what the bill says, pages 197-198, SEC. 441. SURCHARGE ON HIGH INCOME INDIVIDUALS
‘‘SEC. 59C. SURCHARGE ON HIGH INCOME INDIVIDUALS.
‘‘(a) GENERAL RULE.—In the case of a taxpayer other than a corporation, there is hereby imposed (in addition to any other tax imposed by this subtitle) a tax equal to—
‘‘(1) 1 percent of so much of the modified adjusted gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds $350,000 but does not exceed $500,000,
‘‘(2) 1.5 percent of so much of the modified adjusted gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds $500,000 but does not exceed $1,000,000, and
‘‘(3) 5.4 percent of so much of the modified adjusted gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds $1,000,000.
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGE:
1. This bill amends the Internal Revenue Code.
2. Tax surcharges are levied on those with the highest incomes.
3. The plan manipulates the tax code to redistribute their wealth.
4. Successful business owners will bear the highest cost of this plan.
6. 6. Does THE PLAN ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO set FEES FOR SERVICES?
What it says, page 124, Sec. 223, PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES:
(d) CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this subtitle shall be construed as limiting the Secretary’s authority to correct for payments that are excessive or deficient, taking into account the provisions of section 221(a) and the amounts paid for similar health care providers and services under other Exchange-participating health benefits plans.
(e) CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this subtitle shall be construed as affecting the authority of the Secretary to establish payment rates, including payments to provide for the more efficient delivery of services, such as the initiatives provided for under section 224.
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
The government’s authority to set payments is basically unlimited.
The official will decide what constitutes “excessive,” “deficient,” and “efficient” payments and services.
7. Will THE PLAN increase the power of government officials to SCRUTINIZE our private affairs?
What it says, pages 195-196, SEC. 431. DISCLOSURES TO CARRY OUT HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE SUBSIDIES.
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary, upon written request from the Health Choices Commissioner or the head of a State-based health insurance exchange approved for operation under section 208 of the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, shall disclose to officers and employees of the Health Choices Administration or such State-based health insurance exchange, as the case may be, return information of any taxpayer whose income is relevant in determining any affordability credit described in subtitle C of title II of the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009. Such return information shall be limited to—
‘‘(i) taxpayer identity information with respect to such taxpayer,
‘‘(ii) the filing status of such taxpayer,
‘‘(iii) the modified adjusted gross income of such taxpayer (as defined in section 59B(e)(5)),
‘‘(iv) the number of dependents of the taxpayer,
‘‘(v) such other information as is prescribed by the Secretary by regulation as might indicate whether the taxpayer is eligible for such affordability credits (and the amount thereof), and
‘‘(vi) the taxable year with respect to which the preceding information relates or, if applicable, the fact that such information is not available.
And, page 145, section 312, EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE:
(3) PROVISION OF INFORMATION.—The employer provides the Health Choices Commissioner, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury, as applicable, with such information as the Commissioner may require to ascertain compliance with the requirements of this section.
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGE:
1. This section amends the Internal Revenue Code
2. The bill opens up income tax return information to federal officials.
3. Any stated “limits” to such information are circumvented by item (v), which allows federal officials to decide what information is needed.
4. Employers are required to report whatever information the government says it needs to enforce the plan.
8. 8. Does the plan automatically enroll Americans in the GOVERNMENT plan?
What it says, page 102, Section 205, Outreach and enrollment of Exchange-eligible individuals and employers in Exchange-participating health benefits plan:
(3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT OF MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS INTO MEDICAID.—The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which an individual who is described in section 202(d)(3) and has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan is automatically enrolled under Medicaid.
And, page 145, section 312:
(4) AUTOENROLLMENT OF EMPLOYEES.—The employer provides for autoenrollment of the employee in accordance with subsection (c).
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. Do nothing and you are in.
2. Employers are responsible for automatically enrolling people who still work.
9. 9. Does THE PLAN exempt federal OFFICIALS from COURT REVIEW?
What it says, page 124, Section 223, PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES:
(f) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review of a payment rate or methodology established under this section or under section 224.
And, page 256, SEC. 1123. PAYMENTS FOR EFFICIENT AREAS.
‘‘(C) LIMITATION ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review under section 1869, 1878, or otherwise, respecting—
‘‘(i) the identification of a county or other area under subparagraph (A); or
‘‘(ii) the assignment of a postal ZIP Code to a county or other area under subparagraph (B).
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. Sec. 1123 amends the Social Security Act, to allow the Secretary to identify areas of the country that underutilize the government’s plan “based on per capita spending.”
2. Parts of the plan are set above the review of the courts.
Source: http://www.classicalideals.com/HR3200.htm
Yeah, because its a well known fact that everyone wants cooperate with those that they really think are A-Holes?
RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGT!
We suggest the same compromise and negotiation given by the Texans at San Jacinto.
" It's much easier to compromise after a joint or two."
Watch out for the sucker punch.
This is the time to double down our efforts.
I agree...Do not let down and accept anything here as a concession. Death care must be GONE...Repackaging into co-ops or any other name still gains government control. Please, America, do not let this man say he is going to back off the public option...back off the entire freakin’ idea that government has any business in health/insurance or whatever!!!!
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