Posted on 09/02/2009 9:21:28 PM PDT by Paul R.
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – The Prius hybrid automobile is popular for its fuel efficiency, but its electric motor and battery guzzle rare earth metals, a little-known class of elements found in a wide range of gadgets and consumer goods.
That makes Toyota's market-leading gasoline-electric hybrid car and other similar vehicles vulnerable to a supply crunch predicted by experts as China, the world's dominant rare earths producer, limits exports while global demand swells.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Ever play with neodymium magnets? They are unbelievably strong, cut or bruise your fingers if you get between them and some steel. Wow!
Whoa, you mean there are Unintended Consequences in the commie agenda?
Who DIDN’T see this coming? (aside from the enviroweenies themselves)
Unintended? Hardly..."Death to America" sound familiar? Or if you are old enough, remember "We will bury you?"...it's just that they realized they were going to have to do it with a million spoons instead of a shovel...
“One promising U.S. source is a rare earths mine slated to reopen in California by 2012.”
I pity anyone trying to open a mine in California. I won’t matter that we need the metal for enviro reasons.
The law of unintended consequences is a bitch.
The NYTimes today had an interesting article about the scarcity of some of the rare earth metals. China has about 85% of them, it’s a remarkable natural cornering of the market.
you do know about the U-2 lie?
Bono is running the continent with 40 trucks...
how green is that ?
The mine is located on I-15 at Mountain Pass about 20 miles from the Calif/Nev stateline. The mine has beem operating on and off since 1976 or there abouts (maybe earlier).
All color TV’s at that time had the rare earths in the tubes.
It just needs a small sip of oil...like the oil beneath the Bakken shale, or the new BP find in the Gulf...or natural gas...
Batteries are for laptops and vibrators.
Hello, attention...
The first thing you do is...
do not listen to the NY Times.
I have an idea! Why don’t we develop a prime-mover that runs on petroleum products? We can use the oil that is off the coast of the U.S. and in northern Alaska to fuel them.
No problem. If we ever need this rare earth alloy in a national emergency, we can junk all Prius hybrids for it.
So, in answer to your question, 1/4 of the world's vehicles could indeed have electric drive without using a single gram of neodymium.
Looks like one just can not win.
Toxic truth of secretive Siberian city
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6528853.stm
How do you prefer to store your energy?
In easy to transport, fast to load, high energy density hydrocarbon liquids?
Or in slow to load, low energy density, limited life and hard to dispose batteries made from rare earth elements?
Each electric Prius motor requires 1 kilogram (2.2 lb) of neodymium, and each battery uses 10 to 15 kg (22-33 lb) of lanthanum. That number will nearly double under Toyota's plans to boost the car's fuel economy, he said.
This clown, Lifton, is a world-class idiot, but evidently an excellent self-promoter.
The elements in question are not "destroyed," nor are they fired into deep space after the useful life of the devices that contain them.
All these cars and wind turbines have a limited life-span.
One word: recycle.
It has never been more economical to mine the raw ore and refine the desired element than it is to simply recycle previously used material.
D'OH!
I have an idea! Why don’t we build cars that require enormous storage batteries!
What do you think?
Wind turbines? Wind turbines, like solar panels, consume approximately as much energy to build and install as they produce in their entire length of operation. So when you think of it, they aren't really energy producers, they are energy storage devices, LOL!
Of course, the technology for efficient solar panels is right around the corner, the same corner that lies between us and that miracle cancer cure.
Also, the hybrid batteries need to be replaced after 4 years for about $8000.
ping
Oh, I get it. The reason the ecofascists are all Viagra’d for cars like the Prius is because the Chinese commies supply the critical metals.
That certainly connects the dots for me.
Environmentalism - the backdoor way to export communism.
I average around 30mpg at 70mph with the AC running in my 10-year-old Acura 3.2TL, which is roomier and more luxurious, and is paid off. I use 33.3 gallons of gasoline per 1,000 miles, while you use 20.4 gallons.
The distance from Colorado Springs to Richmond is 1,674 miles, so you used 34.1 gallons while I'd have used 55.7 gallons.
So with gasoline at $2.50 per gallon at the most expensive stations here in New Hampshire, you'd have spent $85.40 on gas for the trip while I'd have spent $139.25, so you'd have saved a grand total of:
$53.85.
How much are your car payments, then?
The Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi Duratorq diesel, is available in the UK for around $24,000 base price (comparable to the $22,000 base for the Prius), but is generally illegal here in the US thanks to California's CARB and the EPA.
It gets 54 US MPG, COMBINED - and a UK reviwer got as high as 63 US MPG on a highway trip between Nottingham & Newbury - and doesn't have $2,300 worth of batteries in it. And diesel engines generally run forever, not 8-10 years. And with a diesel, you don't need to pay $2,000 for a solar roof panel to run a vent fan, instead of running the air conditioning.
We should be asking our politicians why we're having gasoline hybrid technology rammed down our throats by virtue of the CARB and EPA regulations on diesel cars, when the Europeans have been getting 55-60+ MPG on off-the-shelf vehicles for years.
How much are your car payments, then? Too much, total price $25,000 in 2006 minus a $3,200. tax credit from Fed. and $3,400. tax credit from State the next tax year. I would love to drive a The Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi Duratorq diesel, It would go well with my Dodge Ram 2500, Turbo Cummins diesel pickup that gets 20 MPG.
Ironic that the government is paying people to buy cars which can only reach 77% of the fuel efficiency of current-model European diesels, while prohibiting the import and sale of such diesels.
A simple and obvious solution.
We must leave the planet and start mining the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter.
Other than a Back to the Future Mr’ Fusion device its becoming apparent that our good old Earth does not have enough of “accessible” rare metals as the future will be demanding.
I see that you have actual experience with such things. I have been bitten, too.
I have to differ - picking nits here - with you about the “It has never been more economical to mine the raw ore and refine the desired element than it is to simply recycle previously used material.”
I don’t know about Nd and La in batteries, but it is possible that it is cheaper to mine an ore and process that, than it is to recycle. One example I’m certain of: it is cheaper to get Hydrogen gas by processing “Natural Gas ore” than it is to get it from the “waste product” of burning hydrogen, water.
In many cases you are correct, but saying “never” is not accurate.
I think it is more important that there really does seem to be a rather strict amount of some of these elements. I find it hard to believe, but when electric cars were first being worked on decades ago, I heard “there isn’t enough lead in the crust of the earth to make all the batteries needed to replace gasoline powered cars.” La and Nd are far less common than Pb, so I suppose there may be a supply shortage, and insufficient amounts to make the hundreds of millions of magnets envisioned. Someone else will have to run the numbers on this though- I’ve not got sufficient interest.
I was warned and shown before taking them in hand. Plus, it was at a buddy’s workplace where he/we bought and sold video gear, particularly tape recorders, with various tapes lying all around the place. So we were a tad concerned, shall we say. They are unGodly strong magnets! Put them near a block of steel or a file cabinet and they will literally leap out of your hands and you CAN’T hold them. They seem possessed!
“Ever play with neodymium magnets? They are unbelievably strong, cut or bruise your fingers if you get between them and some steel. Wow!”
I have some large ones that were salvaged from an early mainframe computer drive. I keep them separated with sheets of 1/4” thick neoprene rubber — I can barely pull them apart.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.