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A father I'd want on my side (Robert Schindler, Sr. - Father of the late Terri Schiavo)
Baptist Press ^ | 9/1/09 | Joni B. Hannigan

Posted on 09/02/2009 4:50:55 PM PDT by wagglebee

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (BP)--I envied Terri Schiavo for her father, Bob. There were times I thought: What a waste, she doesn't know how good she has it. Not like it was her fault, but if only she knew.

But of course she knew.

From all the firsthand accounts and the vivid description of my friend David Gibbs, the attorney who fought for the right of Bob Schindler's daughter to live, Terri herself knew what it was like to feel the whiskered face of her father rough up against her cheek and tickle her until she smiled.

She knew when he walked in the room and gently took her hand in his big one and squeezed it to ask her how her day was. Her eyes had followed his bright ones, though his were tinged by the pain of having to defend his position that she deserved to be cared for until God decided her life should end.

A father's duty.

Some argued that it was her husband's duty. At first it seemed that way.

Michael Schiavo seemed tolerant of her family's visits, and even lived in their home for a while planning for her care after she suffered a neurological injury in 1990 caused by lack of oxygen to the brain. Her family visited her in various facilities. They brought her clothes. Her mom fixed her hair, put her makeup on, and took her on outings.

Then her husband seemed to grow weary. His heart was pulled to another. He had been married to Terri less than half a dozen years before Terri's collapse. Finally, there was a judge who was willing to believe him when said he thought Terri would not want to live in her condition. He asked the judge for permission to remove her nutrition and hydration, knowing it would cause her to die.

And still Terri's father and mother and sister and brother were there for her.

They appeared in court. They hired attorneys. They fought for the right to visit her, bring her comforting items, spend time in her room. The fight lasted nearly a decade.

The trips outside had stopped. No more makeup. Her window shades were pulled down and she was not allowed activities which were stimulating. She was sent to a hospice to die.

Right until the end, Bob refused to give up on his daughter.

"She's still fighting and we are going to fight to do whatever we can to save her," Bob said after the U.S. Supreme Court turned down a final appeal to hear her case on March 30, 2005. "I'm asking that nobody throw in the towel, she's fighting -- keep fighting with her."

It was 9:05 a.m., the day after her father made that statement in front of the hospice, that Terri died. Thirteen days after her nutrition and hydration had been pulled, for the third time in 15 years.

I was there for many of those 13 days. And I had been there two years before, the second time the Schindlers had fought her husband and the court when they threatened to remove her sustenance. What few people understand is that Terri wasn't hooked up to machines or anything, she simply needed food and water to live; because there was a fear she would choke, at some point she was put on a feeding tube.

In 2003 in front of the hospice in a trailer was the very first time I met the Schindlers and reported on their case. That extensive and very personal story is here: http://bit.ly/lo8Lx.

From the beginning Bob was warm and friendly, if worn. Mary was passionately sad. At one point in our interview she actually grabbed my hand and said, "Joni, I don't know if I can go through this again," referring to the court ordering Terri's nutrition and hydration to cease.

My heart broke for all of them.

I'm two years older than Terri. I was raised Catholic, but after that, most of the similarities end. I never did know the love of a father, growing up. When Bob spoke of his firstborn and both their eyes filled with tears, I could only think of how I would feel if my firstborn, my daughter, would be in such a state.

I actually called my daughter on the way to the interview. I asked her what she thought. She told me, "Mama, I would want you to do whatever you wanted because, honestly, I wouldn't know anything anyway. I would be just like a baby and you would be protecting me. So I understand."

In meeting Bob and Mary and then covering the case for two years, I realized just how deep was their love -- indeed how deep the family's love is for each other. They were protective, caring, careful and steadfast.

Bobby Schindler, Terri's brother, was always courteous and kind, though I am a member of the media. Suzanne Vitadamo, Terri's sister, was steady but painfully conscious of our constant intrusion. All of them were involved in a balancing act of giving the press what we needed, knowing they could be crucified or vindicated, depending on who was doing the reporting.

But Bob, walking the crowds at night outside the hospice, eternally hopeful, ever vigilant, wore his heart in his eyes. Every bright tear spoke of the love he had for his daughter. It was apparent his only motivation was the love of a father. He was a man protecting his family in the noblest way.

I could hardly meet his eyes outside the hospice on the day she died as he stood with Bobby and Suzanne, chin slightly quivering. His tears were palpable. The horde of media were amazingly silent and respectful as Bobby read a statement. Red eyes all around me, in our ranks of media professionals, gave me the knowledge that I was not alone in thinking many witnesses to this day would walk away with the knowledge that this was not a "happy ending."

Each time I thought about Terri's death thereafter and tried to reconcile it with God's sovereignty, I had a hard time. Especially when I considered her parents' pain.

A year later when I went to St. Petersburg to interview Bob and Mary at the office of the foundation they had established to help people in similar circumstances, I finally gained some perspective.

Walking with me to my car after showing me around the office, Bob grabbed me in a hug to say goodbye. I felt those whiskers that were said to make Terri smile despite their irritation. It made me smile in spite of the lump in my throat.

He had lost so much, and I asked him, really, how he was doing.

"You are such a Baptocatholic," he said, using the nickname he'd given me after finding out I was raised Catholic before becoming an evangelical Christian as a young teen.

He essentially told me he'd be fine, that God does have a plan and it's hard but it's was going to be OK.

"We just learn to forgive. We just have to," he said, referring to a statement he had made in the office a few minutes before in which he said the timing of Terri's death was "God's will."

God has a plan. He believed that, and so do I. Goodbye, my friend. Thanks for standing up for Terri until the very end. You were, indeed, a father I'd want on my side.

Joni B. Hannigan is managing editor of Florida Baptist Witness at www.FloridaBaptistWitness.com. She covered the Terri Schiavo story extensively and her photos were used in "Fighting for Dear Life: The Untold Story of Terri Schiavo" by David Gibbs and in an award-winning documentary hosted by Joni Eareckson Tada, "The Terri Schiavo Story." A full-length version of this column can be found at http://jonibh.wordpress.com.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: euthanasia; moralabsolutes; prolife; robertschindler; schindler; terri; terridailies; terrischiavo; whiterose
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"We just learn to forgive. We just have to," he said, referring to a statement he had made in the office a few minutes before in which he said the timing of Terri's death was "God's will."

God has a plan. He believed that, and so do I. Goodbye, my friend. Thanks for standing up for Terri until the very end. You were, indeed, a father I'd want on my side.

Beautiful words!

1 posted on 09/02/2009 4:50:56 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 09/02/2009 4:51:42 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or DirtyHarryY2K to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 09/02/2009 4:52:17 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
New Terri Dailies Theme...
 
A wonderful tribute to Bob Schindler.


4 posted on 09/02/2009 4:54:03 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

My heart ached for these parents. It still does.


5 posted on 09/02/2009 4:57:21 PM PDT by Bahbah (Only dead fish go with the flow)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
In just a few sentences Father Frank Pavone destroys the notion that euthanasia/assisted suicide provides "death with dignity."

Thread by me.

Assisted Suicide Violates Human Dignity Says National Priest Leader (Fr. Frank Pavone)

STATEN ISLAND, NY, Sept. 2 /Christian Newswire/ -- Fr. Frank Pavone, National Director of Priests for Life, commented today on the pending Montana Supreme Court case that could establish a so called state constitutional right to assisted suicide.

"Assisted suicide is an act that violates the victim's dignity," said Fr. Pavone. "It is a declaration that a person's life is worthless and devoid of respect. If the Montana constitution states that the dignity of every human is inviolable, then there can be no room in that constitution for the protection of a fabricated 'right' that threatens the very existence of the disabled and medically vulnerable."

6 posted on 09/02/2009 5:00:18 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Very similar sentiments for this wonderful man!

What a blessing to see such dedication vs absent fathers.


7 posted on 09/02/2009 5:02:32 PM PDT by Lesforlife
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To: NYer; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Abortion truly is a for-profit criminal enterprise.

Thread by NYer.

Documentary to examine ‘Blood Money’ motive in abortion industry (video at link)

.- An upcoming pro-life documentary named “Blood Money” aims to shake the viewer “to the very core” and expose the “inconvenient truth” about the money involved in the abortion industry. The documentary interviews pro-life leaders, former abortionists, and women who have been harmed by abortion.

One of the interviewees featured in the movie trailer, Carol Everett, was a part owner of several abortion clinics in the Dallas area who has repented of her involvement in abortion.

In the Blood Money trailer she talks of the unsavory practices her clinics were involved in.

“Our goal was three to five abortions from every girl from the ages 13 to 18,” she says.

Everett describes a plan to “sell abortions” by using sex education to “break down” the natural modesty of children, separate them from their parents and their values, and establish the abortion provider as the sex expert in young people’s lives. . .

8 posted on 09/02/2009 5:23:53 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

When this was going on, I remember seeing those dear people (parents) on the tv, and I was almost overcome with sorrow, rage, and a sense of helplessness. The gentleman was a fine example of what a Father’s loving heart should reveal, and his and his wife’s, revealed much. I’m glad he’s now at peace. *salute*


9 posted on 09/02/2009 5:28:41 PM PDT by WVRockDJ (Mountaineer by birth; USMC by choice; Christian by Grace.)
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To: wagglebee

Michael Schiavo will appearing with Ted Kennedy in Hades.


10 posted on 09/02/2009 5:31:26 PM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Throw the bums out who vote yes on the bail out)
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To: wagglebee
"...a Baptocatholic..."

This is why all religions have to join together...and fight for life!

Katherine Jenerette

11 posted on 09/02/2009 5:48:06 PM PDT by kjenerette (www.jenerette.org - U.S. Army Paratrooper - U.S. Congress 2010)
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To: VRWC For Truth

...and ALL the judges who knew what they were doing was wrong but put politics above the actual rules of law. Terri was the first person ever mandated by a civil court judge to be executed. Judge Greer will also join Teddy, Mikey, Sen. Jim King... the list goes on and on.


12 posted on 09/02/2009 5:49:36 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Obama's Health Care Plan Puts the "you" in euthanasia.)
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To: floriduh voter; BykrBayb; Lesforlife; Sun; Dante3; PhilDragoo
Terri was the first person ever mandated by a civil court judge to be executed.

Even Pontius Pilate, Hitler, Stalin, Saddam and Mao understood the need for at least a "show trial" where the condemned was first accused of a crime before the execution. To the best of my knowledge, Terri Schindler Schiavo was the first person in the history of the world to be executed by the order of the state without even the suggestion that she had committed a crime.

13 posted on 09/02/2009 5:55:50 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

A reckoning is on the horizon!


14 posted on 09/02/2009 6:00:41 PM PDT by Lesforlife
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To: kjenerette

Amen!


15 posted on 09/02/2009 6:06:40 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
That's right. The Nazi's didn't use their court system, did they? The Sick Circuit, Fla DCA, Supremes, DCF, scumbag Charlie Crist, FLag, et al. Had Terri been black, maybe CC would have helped her. He has always pandered for the black vote. He's so insincere.

"Terri Schindler Schiavo was the first person in the history of the world to be executed by the order of the state without even the suggestion that she had committed a crime." wagglebee

16 posted on 09/02/2009 6:15:08 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Obama's Health Care Plan Puts the "you" in euthanasia.)
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To: wagglebee
Mark Levin just mentioned Terri Schiavo on the radio. He's streaming.

http://www.marklevin.com.

He's covering "death panels" tonight.

Levin's pe-oed. I luv him.

17 posted on 09/02/2009 6:20:43 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Obama's Health Care Plan Puts the "you" in euthanasia.)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


18 posted on 09/02/2009 8:52:38 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: wagglebee

A true horror story.


19 posted on 09/03/2009 4:35:19 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: NYer; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Don't even consider watching this if you don't want to cry.

Thread by NYer.

Choosing Thomas -- Inside a family's decision to let their son live, if only for a brief time

An exceptionally touching 9 minute video of a courageous, loving couple who show what it means to be pro-life, give life and reject the life-demeaning advise of professionals.

You Tube Link

20 posted on 09/04/2009 4:40:59 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Man50D
More "hope and change" from Zero's fuhrers czars.

Thread by Man50D.

Obama Regulation Czar Advocated Removing People’s Organs Without Explicit Consent

Cass Sunstein, President Barack Obama’s nominee to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA), has advocated a policy under which the government would “presume” someone has consented to having his or her organs removed for transplantation into someone else when they die unless that person has explicitly indicated that his or her organs should not be taken.

Under such a policy, hospitals would harvest organs from people who never gave permission for this to be done.

Outlined in the 2008 book “Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness,” Sunstein and co-author Richard H. Thaler argued that the main reason that more people do not donate their organs is because they are required to choose donation.

Sunstein and Thaler pointed out that doctors often must ask the deceased’s family members whether or not their dead relative would have wanted to donate his organs. These family members usually err on the side of caution and refuse to donate their loved one’s organs.

“The major obstacle to increasing [organ] donations is the need to get the consent of surviving family members,” said Sunstein and Thaler. . .

21 posted on 09/04/2009 4:46:58 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Day Gardner does an incredible job explaining the inherent racism of Zero and abortion.

Thread by me.

Black Pro-Life Advocates Say Obama's Abortion Support Has Racist Outcome

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- President Barack Obama supports abortion and has done everything possible to expand the number of abortions during his brief tenure as president. While Obama may not have racist motivations for backing abortion, black pro-life advocates are saying that is the outcome.

Two African-American pro-life leaders are saying that, because abortions disproportionately target the black community, expanding abortions brings a racial result.

Day Gardner, the president of the National Black Pro-Life Union, tells LifeNews.com that Obama's abortion promotion is evident.

"In less than nine months he has overturned the Mexico City policy -- which means American tax dollars will be used to pay for foreign abortions. Most of those killed will be the children of my beautiful brothers and sisters in Africa," she explained. . .

22 posted on 09/04/2009 4:49:40 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Jenkins is a modern Judas Iscariot.

Thread by me.

88 Pro-Lifers Arrested at Notre Dame Still Facing Jail Time: Lawyer Asks Fr. Jenkins for Leniancy

SOUTH BEND, Indiana, September 4, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The president of a pro-life public interest law firm has issued an open letter to University of Notre Dame president Rev. John Jenkins, insisting that the school seek to drop the charges against 88 pro-lifers who await sentencing of up to one year in jail and a $5,000 fine for protesting the school's honoring pro-abortion President Obama last May.

"[Notre Dame] should honor all who dare to speak out for the dignity of all human beings - born or unborn, wanted or unwanted, humble or exalted - not prosecute them!" wrote Thomas More Society Pro-Life Law Center president Thomas Brejcha. 

On May 17, at least 90 individuals protesting President Obama's presence and honorary law degree were arrested for trespassing on Notre Dame's campus.  While witnesses say pro-Obama protesters were allowed to roam free, the arrested individuals were singled out for displaying any pro-life message - including slogans on the sanctity of life, photographs of aborted children, a large wooden cross, and images of Mary.

While the St. Joseph County prosecutor is now in charge of the proceedings, the school still has a prerogative, as the original complainant, to seek that the charges be dropped.  Yet president Jenkins have repeatedly refused to seek such leniency or even answer the pro-lifers' requests for dialogue. . .

23 posted on 09/04/2009 4:53:31 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: kathsua; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
If Zero and his ilk had their way this amazing and accomplished young man never would have been born.

Thread by kathsua.

A most able Scout: Teen with Down syndrome has gained far more than badges, rank in program

Lucas Wondra has Down syndrome and communicates with a few words, sign language and a PDA with a speaker and voice software. But when it comes to the Boy Scouts, he concedes no disability.

On Monday, Lucas, a 16-year-old freshman at Hutchinson High, became an Eagle Scout, the highest rank in the Boy Scouts of America and the latest in a collage of medals and merit badges covering his uniform.

Scout Master Bill Whitlow said Lucas is the first Scout with Down syndrome from Troop 301 to achieve his Eagle rank.

"I feel like it's been a community effort," his mother, Leann Wondra, said. "The school helped with physical therapy, occupational therapy and communications therapy so he could earn merit badges."

He also had the support of church leaders, his parents, brother Evan and sister Alicia and all his friends in Troop 301.

"While Lucas achieved his Eagle, the troop also benefited," his father, Korey Wondra, said. "I'm not sure who benefited more. How many times do kids get a chance to hang out with a kid with a disability? And Lucas is a cool kid to hang with."

A few years ago, when Lucas was a Cub Scout, his parents were debating whether and how he could advance into Boy Scouts.

His mother felt he could do it all along, but his father freely admits he had doubts until he and Lucas' younger brother, Evan, went to a Scout summer camp in Colorado and Korey saw a Scout from a Texas troop who also had Down syndrome. He made a note of the troop number on the Scout's shoulder and looked up the Scout master, who told him that Danny had just completed the requirements for Eagle Scout. . .

24 posted on 09/04/2009 5:47:10 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


25 posted on 09/04/2009 9:48:30 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: NYer; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
Father Thomas Euteneuer has written a wonderful tribute to Bob Schindler.

Thread by NYer.

The Passing of a Real Hero

[This week] the pro-life movement mourns the loss of Mr. Robert Schindler, Sr., the father of Terri Schindler-Schiavo, whose fight for life captured the heart of the pro-life community in 2005. Mr. Schindler [was buried] in Philadelphia [yesterday] without the fanfare or accolades that are due a real champion who fought one of the most insidious evils of modern society — the legalized murder of the innocent. His funeral [was] not be televised on all the cable news networks, no cardinals [attended] it, and the President of the United States [[did] not deliver the eulogy — thank God. Mr. Schindler, however, is promised a better send-off than that. God Himself will him speak to him words spoken to all the suffering righteous: "Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter into the joy of your Master."

It is hard not to notice the contrast between the funerals of Senator Edward Kennedy and Bob Schindler. The secular, brash and privileged "Lion of the Senate" had everything that the world had to offer, including comprehensive political protection from his Waterloo; the Chappaquiddick incident in 1969. He walked away from that one scot-free, and the country ever after that conveniently pretended it didn’t happen because no one would want to tarnish the image of a famous political family. Americans find it just too messy to honestly address casual killing. Ted Kennedy went on to continue his murderous rampage in his political career through his contemptible advocacy of legalized killing through abortion and the farcical defense of Roe by vetoing potential Supreme Court judges who might have rectified that terrible injustice in our country. Among the many sins he will have to account for before the Throne of Grace, his criminally buffoonish and cowardly causing of Mary Jo Kopechne’s death and its subsequent cover-up were perhaps the least. Ted Kennedy had a lot of innocent blood on his hands as he went to his judgment, as do all people who advocate or stand aside in silence at the destruction of the innocents.

Bob Schindler, in contrast, was not endowed with the privileges of wealth and social status, nor the political machine that could protect his back side in times of trouble. His family was ravaged by aggressive euthanasia activist lawyers who decided that his daughter was just not worthy of life because she was brain-damaged. He had to fight the son-in-law from hell who, despite a father’s unconditional offer to care for his own daughter, rammed the euthanasia agenda home viciously, even triumphantly. Bob had to endure the agony of three separate court-ordered starvations of his daughter, the third of which took her life in a brutal act of gloating evil that many compared to the Passion of Christ. Bob was the faithful father standing at the foot of the Cross and his vigils took place without the companionship of any cardinal or bishop there to rally the saints in defense of his daughter. His greatest sorrow was indeed that the very leadership of his Church, like the apostles in the Garden of Gethsemane, should have abandoned his family in their hour of need. Indeed, his local bishop somehow found more pressing needs in Asia and was AWOL in defense of Terri the week she was murdered. But despite the failings of the men who are given earthly powers to guide the Church, God never abandons his children. Bob was always in the company of the very best, sent from Heaven, and it is our firm belief that the angels are welcoming him home today as he meets the glory of God and at long last, is reunited with the daughter he loves so much.

No one deserves the kind of treatment meted out to him and his family, but Bob did not take it sitting down. He stood up and fought long and hard for what was right and showed us how to persevere in all our bitter battles. His heroism was humble and virtuous; despite opposition from all sides, despite being abandoned by churchmen, despite the slander his family endured, he held himself up and never faltered. He never "ran from the scene" as Kennedy did at Chappaquiddick; he stood his ground and faced the battle and then he did not let the story end there. If there was anyone whose suffering gave him a right to bitterly blame others and withdraw from the rest of the world’s problems, it was Bob Schindler. But he did not go that route. He was too much of a man of faith for that. Rather, he and his family set up the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation to assist all others who have are increasingly thrust into that same fight and need someone who has "been there" to stand against the powerful perpetrators of crimes against humanity who sit in our political culture arrogating to themselves the power of life and death, a power that has not been given to them.

Since Terri’s Fight in 2005 I have had the supreme privilege of standing next to Bob and the Schindler family on the front lines in the battle against the culture of death and its champions; but I know a real champion when I see one. Bob Schindler certainly paid a martyr’s price for his fidelity to the enduring values of faith and family and was a hero in every sense of the word. I will miss him! Indeed, we all will miss him, but we know that his spirit lives on in all those who patiently suffer injustice and in those who fight for life against the lions who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.


26 posted on 09/07/2009 12:43:44 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
A chilling illustration of what Obamacare would be like.

Thread by me.

Government Health Care? Not on Your Life!

In recent weeks one of the many problems Americans have had with plans for the federal government to take over the health care industry has had to do with life and death issues such as rationing, euthanasia and “death panels.”

The socialists pushing government health care have tried very hard to whitewash these concerns, but to little avail. Even the elderly (who are often solid Democrat supporters because of their addiction to the government largess they already enjoy in programs like Social Security and Medicare) are deserting the Temple of Government in droves; apparently the thought of euthanasia and rationing scares them more than the blessings of the Government god draws them.

Despite those attempts to whitewash this very real concern, the information continues to come in to substantiate those fears...

27 posted on 09/07/2009 12:46:58 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Scanian; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
Hitler had Himmler, Eichmann and Mengele, Zero has the Hemlock Society.

Thread by Scanian.

Talking Seniors to Death

First, the bad news. For the first time since 1975, Social Security recipients are being told they won't be receiving an annual cost of living increase in their monthly benefits. At the same time, their Medicare premiums will go up, so monthly checks will actually shrink next year. Not to worry, though. Here's the good news. Seniors may not have to live on such meager funds for long because the government is going to help them plan how they want to die.

This benevolent plan is in Section 1233 (p. 424) of the health care reform bill known as "America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009" (HR 3200). It didn't just show up on the doorstep of health care reform, but was packaged and delivered by Compassion & Choices (C & C), the assisted-suicide advocacy group previously known as the Hemlock Society.

Under Section 1233, a doctor would be paid for having an "advance care planning consultation" with a patient. The consultation wouldn't be mandatory, at least for now. But if the doctor wants to get paid for it, the consultation's contents are very specifically prescribed. For example, each consultation "shall include" an explanation of legal documents such as living wills and durable powers of attorney, and information about the "continuum of end-of-life services." Patients need not be ill but, because they are over a certain age, their doctors will suggest that it's time to talk about death.

So, if George, a healthy 70-year-old marathon runner, goes to the doctor because of tendonitis, his doctor will have the all-important discussion with him, reminding him that he's not getting any younger and that it's time to decide how he'll die. Sure, George may or may not be adversely affected by this. But consider Clara, an 84-year-old widow who needs a hip replacement. If the doctor tells her that the government health plan won't pay for her surgery but will pay for pain pills, and then tells her it's really time to discuss her end-of-life options, what message is she getting? Isn't it likely that Clara will acquiesce, if her doctor suggests that she "choose" to forgo treatment for any future illnesses so she won't be a burden on her family?

To hear proponents of Section 1233 talk about it, one would think that people have no access now to information about advance directives. But for years, federal law has required that patients be provided with general information about advance directives. . .

28 posted on 09/07/2009 12:51:20 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
The culture of death is now describing murder as a "no-brainer".

Thread by me.

Doctor euthanized patient - attitude labeled 'macabre'

New information has surfaced regarding euthanization of elderly patients at a New Orleans hospital during Hurricane Katrina.

A doctor has admitted administering a lethal dose of morphine to one patient knowing that it would kill her. "There's no question I hastened her demise," Dr. Ewing Cook told an independent investigation organization. "I gave her medicine so I could get rid of her faster, get the nurses off the [hospital] floor." The patient, Jannie Burgess, 79, was suffering from uterine cancer and kidney failure. "To me, it was a no-brainer -- and to this day I don't feel bad about what I did," Cook added. . .

29 posted on 09/07/2009 12:56:20 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Thanks for the post and ping. I still vividly recall the hospice staff barring a young child from bringing a bottle of water to Terri.

As Fr. Euteneueur noted, Bob Schindler was a true hero!

30 posted on 09/07/2009 1:00:16 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer
I still vividly recall the hospice staff barring a young child from bringing a bottle of water to Terri.

It was worse than that.

Ten Year Old Arrested for Giving Food to Terri Schiavo Apologizes


31 posted on 09/07/2009 1:21:05 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Oh my .... it’s all coming back now. I hope you have set up a Schiavo dossier on your hd to safeguard these pix and stories. No doubt we’ll be seeing more of this in the not too distant future.


32 posted on 09/07/2009 1:24:49 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer

I do need to save some of it so I don’t have to go looking for it.


33 posted on 09/07/2009 1:27:39 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


34 posted on 09/07/2009 9:13:23 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: wagglebee

“I don’t feel bad about what I did,” Cook said. Spoken like a sociopath.


35 posted on 09/08/2009 8:29:36 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: Bahbah
"My heart aches for these parents. It still does."

Yes, I still can't believe what they were put through, or, what happened to Terry.

As another FReeper posted in the days right after Terry died:"I have an immense distrust of our government now".
(This is the best description of how I've felt, ever since it happened.)

Although I do agree with Mr. Schindler, that God has a plan- Especially in light of what's happening in our government today.

May he rest in peace. I'm sure choirs of angels welcomed him home. Many lives have been saved because of the Schindler's tireless efforts on behalf of life.

36 posted on 09/09/2009 2:46:15 AM PDT by Pajamajan ( Pray for our nation. Thank the Lord for everything you have. Ask His forgiveness. Don't wait.)
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To: Nachum; OldDeckHand
This tragedy is a sickening reminder of how evil socialized medicine is and it's worth noting that Zero OPPOSED allowing an aborted baby to live if they survived the executioner.

Threads by Nachum and OldDeckHand.

Premature baby 'left to die' by doctors ...(UK)

A young mother's premature baby died in her arms after doctors refused to help because it was born just before 22-week cut-off point for treatment.

Sarah Capewell, 23, gave birth to her son Jayden when she was 21 weeks and five days into her pregnancy.

Although doctors refused to place the baby in intensive care, Jayden lived for two hours before he passed away at James Paget Hospital in Gorleston, Norfolk, last October...

______________________________________________________________

'Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby'

Doctors left a premature baby to die because he was born two days too early, his devastated mother claimed yesterday.

Sarah Capewell begged them to save her tiny son, who was born just 21 weeks and five days into her pregnancy - almost four months early.

They ignored her pleas and allegedly told her they were following national guidelines that babies born before 22 weeks should not be given medical treatment...

37 posted on 09/09/2009 4:26:10 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Pope Pius XII; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
The Vatican needs to be just as forceful with dissident American clergy.

Thread by Pope Pius XII.

Vatican Warns 41 Dissident Italian Priests Who Approved of Eluana Englaro Killing

41 Catholic priests have been issued a formal warning by the Vatican for signing an open letter approving the removal of food and hydration of helpless patients like Eluana Englaro.

Five months ago, in a letter composed by Fr. Paolo Farinella of Genoa, the group complained that a living wills law being prepared by Prime Minister Berlusconi's government excluded the possibility that food and hydration could be withdrawn from patients by doctors to bring about their deaths. Farinella, the author of the article "The right to live a duty to die," is a well-known supporter of euthanasia.

Published by Micromega, a magazine known for its strong secular and anticlerical views, the letter said, "The law on living wills for which the government and the majority [in Parliament] are preparing to vote imprisons freedom of all actors involved at the supreme moment of death." ...

38 posted on 09/09/2009 4:31:53 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
The Darwins, Galtons, Hitler and Sanger would be delighted by this.

Thread by me.

London School of Economics: Fewer Kids, More Abortions, Better Environment

London, England (LifeNews.com) -- A new analysis from the London School of Economics is targeting people who have children as being responsible for destroying the environment. With a population control agenda in mind, its analysis draws the conclusion that fewer children and more abortions means a better environment.

Although the report, entitled Fewer Emitter, Lower Emissions, Less Cost, focuses on "family planning" and contraception, the idea is that fewer children born means the environment will be better off.

Roger Martin, chairman of the Optimum Population Trust at the LSE, is one of the school officials behind the report.

His research indicates contraception is five times cheaper than conventional green technologies in reducing global CO2 emissions. LSE estimates that, for every $4 (UK) spent on contraception and family planning resulting in a reduction of emissions by one ton equals the same reduction as $19 (UK) spent on green technologies.

Martin says 34 gigatons (billion tons) of CO2 would be saved if nations did more to push population control by promoting contraception and abortion.

“It’s always been obviously that total emissions depend on the number of emitters as well as their individual emissions – the carbon tonnage can't shoot down as we want, while the population keeps shooting up," Martin complained in comments to the London Telegraph...

39 posted on 09/09/2009 4:39:04 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!


40 posted on 09/10/2009 7:22:56 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Brugmansian; Deo volente; Kieri; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; ...
The difference between the media's approach to this tragedy and the killing of the mass-murdering Tiller are nauseating.

Threads by Brugmansian, Deo volente, Kieri and me.

Anti-abortion activist shot in front of Owosso High School

OWOSSO, Michigan -- State police at the Corunna post have confirmed a well-known anti-abortion activist was shot multiple times and killed this morning in front of Owosso High School . . .

State police also confirmed that a suspect was taken into custody about 8:15 a.m. at the suspect's home. . .

______________________________________________________________

Owosso shooting suspect identified (pro-life activist killed)

CORUNNA, Michigan -- The Shiawassee County Prosecutor's office has charged Harlan J. Drake, 33, of Owosso with two counts of first-degree, premeditated murder in Friday's slaying of an anti-abortion activist in Owosso and an Owosso Towship gravel pit owner.

County Prosecutor Randy Colbry said Drake also had plans to kill an Owosso realtor but was arrested before he could carry out his alleged plan. . .

______________________________________________________________

(MI) Prosecutor: Anti-Abortion Activist Killed For Beliefs

He was known for his outspoken anti-abortion protests all around Owosso.

"When I went into town, you'd often see him on his corner," says friend Ron Ackals.

And as he was picketing Friday morning outside Owosso High School, prosecutors say 63-year-old James Pouillon was gunned down-- shot up to 10 times-- by a drive-by shooter targeting the man for his message. . .

______________________________________________________________

Pro-Abortion Groups Silent in Wake of Pro-Life Activist's Slaying

OWOSSO, Michigan, September 11, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - In contrast to the swift condemnations issued by every major pro-life group across America in the hours following the slaying of late-term abortionist George Tiller in May, a deafening silence from nearly every U.S. pro-abortion group has accompanied the hours of nationwide media buzz following the shooting death of Michigan pro-life activist Jim Pouillon early Friday morning. The only statements from pro-abortion forces thus far have been issued by the local Michigan chapter of Planned Parenthood, and the pro-abortion website RHrealitycheck.org.

Pouillon, 63, was shot multiple times and killed at 7:20 a.m. as he stood with a pro-life sign outside Owosso High School. Police charged 33-year-old Owosso resident Harland James Drake Friday afternoon with Pouillon's first-degree murder, as well as the first-degree murder of local gravel pit owner Mike Fuoss, 61, killed earlier in the morning.

Prosecutors said Drake told them he targeted Pouillon because of his pro-life activity.

Though Pouillon's death has made headlines in major news media, leading national pro-abortion organizations including Planned Parenthood Federation of America, NARAL, the National Organization for Women, and the National Abortion Federation have issued no response to the slaying as of 4:45 p.m. EST. . .

41 posted on 09/11/2009 5:27:36 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
I fear American doctors will soon be forced to make the same decisions.

Thread by me.

Spanish Doctors Will Choose Jail over Committing Abortion

September 11, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Dr. Esteban Rodriguez, spokesman for the organization Derecho a Vivir (Right to Life) recently said Spanish doctors are willing to face jail rather than kill unborn children under a new law.

"We are willing to go to jail rather than following a criminal law," Dr. Rodriguez said, "and we are willing to commit the supposed crime of disobedience before the crime of abortion."

Dr. Rodriguez was responding to comments made earlier by Minister of Justice, Francisco Caamano, who said that Spain's abortion law would not allow doctors the right to refuse to commit abortions.

"We will not kill our patients, nor will we commit a crime against the public health deliberately harming the health of women, no matter how much the Minister of Justice threatens us and abuses his power," the doctor said.

He said the Zapatero government should think about creating "a new level of officials at the ministries of Justice and Equality: fetal executioners." Decrying the government's "imposed ideology," he recalled that the Spanish constitution guarantees the right of conscientious objection. Rodriguez noted the irony that the new law would shield some doctors from prison for committing illegal abortions while sending others to jail who refused. . .

42 posted on 09/11/2009 5:32:51 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: EternalVigilance; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
The media is still pretending that this was a meaningless event.

Thread by EternalVigilance.

Jim Pouillon Died for Life

This is the photo that pro-life hero and martyr Jim Pouillon was holding when he was shot to death in Michigan yesterday (Friday):


43 posted on 09/13/2009 4:38:53 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Starman417; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
The media just doesn't seem to understand that killing the elderly, sick and disabled is MURDER.

Thread by Starman417.

Newsweek Makes The Case For Killing Grandma

Newsweek, in all of its wisdom, is still arguing that Sarah Palin lied about the death panel provisions in ObamaCare, but we really should have a death panel anyways. The author of the below piece, Evan Thomas, writes that his 79 year old mother wanted to die but the doctors wouldn't let her because the assisted living facility she was staying at was sustained by Medicare. He didn't like this and muses on how we can fix health care in this country by, you guessed it, getting people into hospice care and out of hospitals. People need to die and just get it over with you see:

The idea that we might ration health care to seniors (or anyone else) is political anathema. Politicians do not dare breathe the R word, lest they be accused—however wrongly—of trying to pull the plug on Grandma. But the need to spend less money on the elderly at the end of life is the elephant in the room in the health-reform debate. Everyone sees it but no one wants to talk about it. At a more basic level, Americans are afraid not just of dying, but of talking and thinking about death. Until Americans learn to contemplate death as more than a scientific challenge to be overcome, our health-care system will remain unfixable.

Compared with other Western countries, the United States has more health care—but, generally speaking, not better health care. There is no way we can get control of costs, which have grown by nearly 50 percent in the past decade, without finding a way to stop overtreating patients. . .


44 posted on 09/13/2009 4:42:22 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ...
This tribute to Bob Schindler brought tears to my eyes.

Thread by me.

Bob Schindler: A pro-Life hero


I received a telephone call telling me a friend died of a heart attack. His name was Bob Schindler. His death certificate may say he died of cardiac arrest but those of us who knew Bob know he really died of a broken heart.

I first met Bob, his wife Mary and their son Bobby in 2001 while I was in Charlotte, North Carolina to deliver the keynote address at the U.S. National Right to Life Prayer Breakfast. Bob and Mary’s daughter was Terri Schiavo. They approached me to ask for help to save Terri from being starved and dehydrated to death at a Florida hospice. Terri became Brain damaged after a supposed heart attack in 1990; it left her severely disabled. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, was seeking a court order to kill her by withholding food and water.

Initially the Schindler’s story seemed too incredible to believe, but they had a brief case filled with legal documents and local news clippings from the Tampa Bay area to back up their horrible but true story. It was the worst case of spousal abuse of a vulnerable mate I had ever encountered.

Terri Schiavo had a serious disability but she was not dying. She relied on a feeding tube but did not need a respirator or other means of artificial life support. Terri Schiavo had a normal life expectancy but her husband maintained she would not want to live in such a state of disability. There was no written document from Terri saying this, nor did she complete a living will laying out her wishes. Granted, she probably did not want to live with a disability. Nobody does. So what! I do not want to live with my serious disability but that does not mean I’m better off dead. Millions of people with severe disabilities live happy and vital lives.

Bob and Mary Schindler loved Terri and wanted to take her home and care for her. All that was needed was for her husband to agree and give up guardianship. He would not. He wanted her dead. Unfortunately, a Florida Judge by the name of George Greer agreed.

Terri did not need to die. Michael had moved on with his life, hooked up with a new woman, and even started a family with her. He was obviously in a conflict of interest regarding Terri Schiavo’s best interests. There were people who loved her and wanted to care for her but Michael would have none of it. He was determined she must die rather than live disabled.

At Bob’s request, I made desperate appeals to the Attorney General and Governor of Florida, and even to the White House to intervene and somehow stop the starvation and dehydration order. Appeals were even made to Canada’s Immigration minister to offer asylum to Terri Schiavo and her parents. A full team of medical professionals in Edmonton volunteered to care for her.

A groundswell of public support rose across North America to save Terri Schiavo as her plight became public. Even the Vatican weighed in to plead for Terri Schiavo’s life. It was to no avail.

On March 18th 2005, Terri’s gastric feeding tube was removed and her slow, torturous starvation and dehydration death began under a Florida court order. It took thirteen terrible days for her to die an agonizing death. All the Schindlers could do was watch. If Bob or Mary even raised an ice cube to her cracked lips, they would have been arrested on the spot by a burly police officer posted in the room to ensure nobody stopped the court sanctioned killing of Terri. If the Schindlers were arrested Terri would have died without them.

Looking back now, it’s hard to believe it actually happened in America ─ the land of freedom and liberty. But it did happen and media from around the world gathered outside the hospice where Terri was being killed to chronicle the deadly vigil. Christians and other people of good will gathered outside the hospice to protest the torture and murder of an innocent and defenceless woman, unable to speak or fight for herself. Terri Schiavo died on March 31st 2005.

I think it was too much for Bob. He had two strokes in 2006, then suffered from kidney failure and required regular dialysis. But with aggressive rehabilitation therapy and the ongoing support of his family, Bob began to rally. Lost function from his strokes started to slowly return and his kidneys started to work again. Then he went into cardiac arrest on August 29th 2009.

In the days after Bob Schindler’s death, I received an email from another friend of the Schindler family. It said, “If ever the prayer "may he rest in peace" applies, it must be for him.” Indeed it must.

Bob Schindler was an ordinary man ― an unassuming hero ― who fought desperately to save his brain-injured daughter from being killed. He left no legal or political stone unturned to bring her back to the safety, security and love of his home. He simply wanted to protect her from the clutches of a hostile and increasingly anti-disability culture. Bob and Mary Schindler shook America to its foundation and challenged its sense of right and wrong in starving and dehydrating to death severely brain injured people. The Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation was formed to help other families protect their disabled loved ones.

Bob Schindler showed lesser ordinary men like me that we too can do extraordinary things if we throw caution to the wind for a cause we know to be right and true. Rest in peace my friend Bob Schindler. You made me proud to have known you. Rest in peace my friend.
Mark Pickup


45 posted on 09/13/2009 4:45:37 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: EternalVigilance; Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
More tributes to Jim Pouillon.

Threads by EternalVigilance and me.

THOUGH ALL THE WORLD BE SILENT - ALAN KEYES

George Tiller spent his days systematically slaughtering helpless children in the womb. His murderous practice focused especially on those near birth, and included techniques that required literally tearing them limb from limb. Like Shakespeare's homicidal tyrant, Macbeth, he was unafraid of what he himself did make, "strange images of death."

On Sunday, May 31, 2009 an assailant killed Tiller as he took time off from his professional endeavors to attend church services.

Jim Pouillon spent his days sitting in a lawn chair holding up signs that contrasted images of living babies with the gut-wrenching images of dead babies, like the victims of Tiller's handiwork.

On Friday, September 11, 2009 an assailant murdered Pouillon as he practiced his vocation in front of Owosso High School in Michigan. . .

______________________________________________________________

James Pouillon is Another Victim of Abortion Say Priests for Life Leaders Pavone, Morana, and King

STATEN ISLAND, NY, Sept. 11 /Christian Newswire/ -- Leaders of Priests for Life, the largest network of clergy and lay people dedicated to ending abortion, reacted today to statements by a Sianwassee County, Michigan, prosecutor that James Pouillon was killed by a man who was upset at Mr. Pouillon's pro-life activism.

"James Pouillon today joined the approximately 4,000 other victims who will be killed today because of abortion," said Fr. Frank Pavone, National Director of Priests for Life. "The taking of all innocent lives must stop. I call on the leaders of the so called 'pro-choice' movement to condemn this killing and to consider all of the people who lose their lives to abortion every single day."

"Mr. Pouillon was known as the 'sign guy' because he had the courage to show people what abortion really is," said Janet Morana, Priest for Life's Executive Director. "This brutal murder will not deter pro-lifers from continuing to expose the horror of what abortion does, not just to the baby who loses his life, but also to the mother who lives with the truth of abortion the rest of her life."

"In the Fifties and Sixties, people lost their lives to secure the civil rights of those victimized by discrimination," added Dr. Alveda King, Pastoral Associate of Priests for Life and niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. "Now, James Pouillon has lost his life in the civil rights cause of the 21st Century, the struggle to protect the right to life of every single person, born and unborn. Mr. Pouillon has not died in vain; the struggle will only be renewed because of his courage and sacrifice."

46 posted on 09/13/2009 4:50:28 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Amen and amen!

All children should be blessed with such dedicated fathers!!!!

Mr. Schindler was the dearest soul I’ve had the privilege to encounter.


47 posted on 09/13/2009 4:53:38 PM PDT by Lesforlife
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To: Lesforlife

He was the epitome of grace and faith while being forced to endure absolute evil and betrayal.


48 posted on 09/13/2009 4:56:36 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Thank you for posting this. Personally, I can’t have too many reminders of what a great man Bob Schindler was, and how wonderful his family is. He set an eternal example.


49 posted on 09/13/2009 4:58:26 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (We're winning.) (Please visit www.AIPNEWS.com)
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To: EternalVigilance

The Schindlers had the indignity of being the first family EVER in a free society to have a relative executed by court order without even being accused of a crime. And I think the truest testimony to their faith and love is the fact that ever since they have dedicated their lives to saving others from Terri’s fate.


50 posted on 09/13/2009 5:03:15 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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