I dig what you're saying.
Posted on 08/31/2009 4:48:22 AM PDT by IbJensen
Changes are coming to the Catholic English-speaking world in the form of a new translation of the Mass.
The Roman Catholic liturgy, which has been said in English for over 30 years, will undergo a significant revision. English-speaking bishops will vote on final portions of the new translation in November.
The translation will bring a new translation of the Mass to the United States, Canada, the U.K., Australia, and the rest of the English-speaking world. The book with the translation, known as the Sacramentary for the past 30 years, will be known again by its original name, the Roman Missal.
To prepare priests and the faithful for the new translation, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia is beginning a program of preparation in anticipation of the new translation.
"In the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, we are going to have two phases to prepare and introduce the missal," said Fr. Dennis Gill, Director of Worship for the Archdiocese of Philadelphia. "The first, beginning this September, is remote preparation, where we will conduct workshops for priests and for their responsibility to help the people prepare for it. We will also meet with deacons and religious sisters so all throughout this year, from September to September, there will be general catechesis to look at the new English translation and its theological and liturgical richness. The second phase will have hands-on catechesis as to how to pray and sing the new Missal."
The revision of the Missal has been a long process and its root cause is the new Latin version of the Missal released by Pope John Paul II in 2000. The Vatican's Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments issued a document called Liturgiam Authenticam, in 2001 to aid in the translation of the new Missal.
"Liturgiam Authenticam made a very significant change as far as how translation should be carried out," said Fr. Gill. "Before it, the Latin was translated more in terms of sense of what it was saying. So when our books were translated, many times the precision with which it communicated the faith was lost. Liturgiam Authenticam now requires a more literal translation."
Fr. Gill said that when the new Missal was published, the new rules for translation applied, meaning that the text will be more faithful to the theological and liturgical richness contained in the original Latin.
Fr. Gill emphasized that none of the changes coming are arbitrary, but are the result of a careful faithfulness to the Latin text.
"One of the things that we notice immediately with the new translation of the Latin into English is an older more enriched expression with all of the translation," he said. "The adjectives and adverbs that would be missing in the current translation would be reintroduced. The nuance of the Roman Rite in the liturgical text becomes more pronounced. Syntactically, the new translation corresponds more to the Latin."
Because of that, there are significant changes to some hallmarks Catholics might be familiar with in the Mass currently. The dialogue between the priest and the people, "The Lord be with you," will soon be replied to in reflection of the Latin with "And with your spirit." The Gloria, sung at most Sunday Masses, will include portions typically omitted in the current translation.
Further, Fr. Gill pointed out that physical imagery that was lost in the current translation would be recovered in the new translation. The invitation to Communion, known in Latin as the Ecce Agnus Dei, currently says, "Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed." The new translation pulls the quote directly from scripture, saying, "Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed."
Fr. Gill said that the faithful can begin educating themselves right now about the changes that will be coming once the Vatican approves the translation. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) has started a website dedicated to preparing Catholics for changes to the Mass, and there are resources available at the Archdiocese of Philadelphia's website as well.
The USCCB website gives examples of the new translation so that the laity can familiarize themselves with the coming changes.
"Among other things, the third edition contains prayers for the celebration of recently canonized saints, additional prefaces for the Eucharistic Prayers, additional Masses and Prayers for Various Needs and Intentions, and some updated and revised rubrics (instructions) for the celebration of the Mass," according to the USCCB.
"In the years since Vatican II we have learned a lot about the use of the vernacular in the liturgy and the new texts reflect this new understanding," said Bishop Arthur Serratelli, who heads the USCCB Committee on Divine Worship.
"We have a great opportunity during this period not only to learn about the changes, not only to learn about the revised texts, but also to deepen our own understanding of the Liturgy itself," said Bishop Serratelli. "We encourage priests, deacons, religious, liturgical ministers, all the faithful to avail themselves of the information that we are making available."
The USCCB website can be accessed at http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal and the Archdiocese of Philadelphia's Office for Worship can be accessed at http://archphila.org/evangelization/worship/worship.htm
It used to be that when one heard mass in a foreign country that person knew what happening. Now those English speaking franchisees will have yet another change to contend with.
Those Catholics who are upset with this and see it as another act of heresy can find comfort in a traditional Roman Catholic church or chapel where only the Tridentine Mass is said.
I also always disliked the “rock and roll” music Masses!
Since Pius XII it appears as though heretics have been in charge.
Now Benedict is issuing forth encyclicals that espouse world governance.
Yep. Globalist Oligarchy Double Speak
>>Why is this a good idea?<<
Why is it not a good idea? The language of the church is Latin. We have dumbed down the Holy Mass until the local Lutheran Service is more reverent.
Personally, I don’t care if anyone wants a “Happy Catholic” mass. However, when that is all that is offered in a Vicariate, we have a problem. That’s fine that you want the fluff mass, I want the traditional NO Mass with all the smells, bells and a sprinkling of Latin.
For me personally, the changes in the text serve to emphasize the point that salvation is not a given; that God is reaching out to us; but we, likewise, must reach out to God. One of my favorite changes is in the Gloria:
"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to people of good will."
However, I too would also like more opportunities to attend the Latin Mass.
Why is it a good idea to gloss over the Latin and produce "translations" that bear little resemblance to the text being translated?
Try as hard as you like to mangle it, et cum spiritu tuo means "And with your spirit," not "And also with you."
They forgot that, unlike them, God always was and always will be. He, like Jesus, doesn't wear Nikes and has no use for 'modernism' as it is anathema for the continued healthy life of the Roman Catholic Church.
The awful truth is there aren't very many 'conservatives' in the Novus Ordo Catholic Church. They've gone elsewhere. You'll find them wherever the Tridentine Mass is offered on a regular basis and the churches haven't been gutted.
You, mom, have hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head!
I dig what you're saying.
The English translation of the Mass as we currently hear it in American parishes was put together by people in thrall to the modernist fear of the mysterious, and is at war with the senses. Created by the International Committee on English in the Liturgy (ICEL), its peculiarities include omitting the word "soul" anywhere it appears in the Vatican-approved, Latin text of the New Mass. Generally, the translation veers away from reverence, graceful usage, or powerful imagery, and specifically avoids any time-honored phrases from the Mass that have made their way into common English usage. This Mass translation was the result of a ferocious faction of priests, nuns, and lay "liturgists," who are now in their 60s and 70s, whose animating belief was that what the Church needs is a complete break from its history, especially in customs and aesthetics.
Some of these people are actually at war with Catholic and Christian belief. But many have been perfectly orthodox. But Father, forgive them, they did not know what they were doing.
When you put their droopy Mass translation together with the inaccurate, pedestrian, illiterate, and masculinity-suppressing Bible revisions that began spawning in the 1970s, it takes a strong faith (and stomach) to sit through an average Mass in the U.S. today. It is the sacrament itself, and the quite inspiring faith of the average people and most of the priests that redeem the occasion.
In recent years, JPII and B-16 began stacking ICEL with better translators. From the Mass, the forthcoming, accurate translation for "Domine, non sum dignus . . ." that does not strangle the centurion's quote is a welcome sign. We'll see in due time if our bishops have the brass to approve an accurate translation of the Scriptures themselves. That would require them to ashcan inane phrases now heard at Mass in the reading of the Epistles, such as "Brothers and sisters . . ." which St. Paul never uttered.
Thank you, but I have to tell you that I know this only by personal experience.
I was at a “Happy Catholic” parish. Holding Hands, raising them up, the lady who stood at the front and “led” the congregation with a lift of her arms, no crucifix, tabernacle off to the side, the whole nine yards.
I joined the education committee because my first grader was in a “Religious Education” class where transubstantiation was being taught. When a boy asked “Is it really blood?”, the teacher replied “no” with no other explanation.
What I found on that committee was that the DRE was more interested in a “good experience” than sticking to the rubrics. The more “feel good” the better. Then she wondered why people would go to Trinity Lutheran on the corner sometimes. Well when my daughter had attended Preschool at Trinity, I was required to attend service there. I would go to mass on Sunday and to their service on Monday night. It was more like the mass I grew up in than the Charismatic/Pentecostal wannabe mass at my parish.
I escaped to here
I hope that the person who reported the indirect discourse, and not Fr. Gill, made the verb-subject agreement error.
...and it took only 45 years.
And I thought Deo Gratias meant "Have a nice day."
Wouldn't, "And back atcha" be a little more hip?
>>The church hasn’t been ‘catholic’ subsequent to Vatican II.<<
I have said this many times and ducked many a hand grenade. It amazes me that we Conservatives are quick to notice any change towards Marxism/Socialism in our government and Condservative Catholics cannot see the same thing in their church.
“cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” Matthew 7:5
I prefer “Right back atcha.” “Ditto” has too many political overtones.
I disagree. I think Pope Benedict XVI is doing an excellent job. The seminaries are filling up - and these young men are predominantly good orthodox Catholics from what I have read, seen and heard. He even said something to the effect of the Church getting smaller but stronger. I think he assumes he will lose some of the Catholics that like the hand-holding and dancing masses - but these things were never in the rubrics and were a distraction that infiltrated the Mass. Now he is working on revising the English Mass so that it more accurately reflects the Latin. What’s wrong with that? He’s doing the right thing.
As for his encyclicals, many people like to cherry-pick portions of his encyclicals to paint him in a bad light - as the press has been doing to Popes for a long long time. In all fairness though, I haven’t had a chance to read the most recent encyclical yet. I have heard that it was ‘co-written’ and that Benedict rejected portions of it several times before acquiescing to the released version.
That’s funny.
The new priests I’ve had the pleasure of attending their Masses have all been very devout and give powerful, inspirational homilies. I have hope for the Church if this continues.
What heresy would that be, exactly?
Have you noticed the girl altar boys? Have you noticed how difficult it is to pick out the confessional (or reconciliation room)?
Did you notice that many churches no longer have votive candles, nor do many have statues, pictures, or even the stations?
Did you notice that even though there are many different texts that the presider can say that many priests tend to add their own words to the text.
In short there is a liturgy that when compared to the Lutheran Church seems limp and says very little to worshipers.
Good Pope John Paul journeyed to the polynesian islands and watched bare-breasted natives dance about; later the Pope granted audience to voodoo practitioners and witches. He rarely spoke out on matters of faith and morals and when he did, much like Pope Benedict, the encyclicals were very difficult to understand, much like a politicans utterances.
I have done a lot of traveling about the world and have noticed a vast difference between the American Catholic Church and those found in, say Europe. There is no host dropped in the hand, there are no lay distributors and the entire atmosphere is far different from what we find here.
Why?
There is so much more, Claud, but I believe that elaboration would fall on deaf ears.
Excellent contribution!
My wife and I were surprised.
If she had done that to MY husband, she would have gotten the b!tch slap of peace.
Heresy, IbJensen. What heresy?
That word means something very definite. And as a fellow trad I expect you to use it the way Holy Mother Church defines it—not as a catch-all for all the liturgy idiocy we’ve all put up with lo these many years.
It sounded like you were saying that Mass in the vernacular was a heresy, which I hope you weren’t intending to say.
The Novus Ordo mass contains many errors that were condemned by Pope St. Pius V at the Council of Trent (eg: mass totally in the vernacular, words of Consecration spoken aloud, etc. (See Condemnation of Jansenist Synod of Pistia), and errors condemned by Pope Pius XII (e.g., altar in form of table. See Mediator Dei).
The New Mass attempts to transform the Catholic Church into a new, ecumenical church embracing all ideologies and all religions — right and wrong, truth and error — a goal long dreamt of by the enemies of the Catholic Church.
The altar and tabernacle are now separated, thus marking a division between Christ in His priest-and-Sacrifice-on-the-altar, from Christ in His Real Presence in the tabernacle, “two things which of their very nature, must remain together.” (Pius XII)
Why not stick with the Tridentine Mass that has served Christ’s Church on earth for over one thousand years?
By permitting the vernacular the church is no longer ‘catholic’ or universal. Masses are being said around the world that are entirely different and one cannot attend a mass in Germany, for example, and have any idea what is happening.
B-XVI is following closely in his predecessor’s footsteps by issuing forth encyclicals that are extremely long winded and loaded with phrases that have meaning, perhaps to the author, but not to anyone attempting to understand what is being said. The most recent was, of course, the encyclical that appeared to strongly support world governance.
The press isn’t putting him in a bad light, it’s the very words themselves that in an effort to somewhat obfuscate what his true meaning is, makes it abundantly clear.
>>Did you notice that even though there are many different texts that the presider can say that many priests tend to add their own words to the text<<
This actually is an abuse. Altar girls, allowed pitifully. Most other things that I detest from the Happy Catholic Masses are innovation and not abuses. Change the matter, change words or have a nun reading the Gospel and you have abuse.
Or my BIGGEST bugaboo, the laity usurping the Orans position. The “Hands Extended” position is a Priestly gesture. It is NEVER directed to the laity. Only Priests and Deacons. Although I have to laugh at the way the Cleveland diocese is getting around that. I attended a mass outside of Cleveland. At the beginning of the Our Father, everyone assumed the “stickum up” position, including the Priest. Each of them had their elbows firm against their sides, hands up and palms facing out.
I glanced to the back to see if a gunman had walked in!
Salvation, do you have the list of abuses at mass?
The most reverent Mass I have attended in a long time was in a tiny church in the mountains of North Carolina. The very best thing was that there was very little music attempted. The Gloria was recited, as well as the responsorial Psalm.
My current big bugaboo is beginning the Mass w/o the Confiteor being prayed - the Deacons want to get right to the Lord Have Mercy.
Oh, and announcements at the end of the Mass. Hand holding? Fuhgetaboudit.
>>Oh, and announcements at the end of the Mass.<<
The announcements are something I will forgive as long as the Prayer to St. Michael is said!!!
You know how often that happens.
At my Parish?
Twice on Sunday, and once on Saturday nigh.
Not sure what's done after daily Mass. The Parish at which I assist daily Mass (in most respects a much more "conservative" Parish) does not offer the St Michael prayer.
Oh that is wonderful! I thought ours was the only one who still said it.
Wonder why many a parish has fallen to the egos of men? I truly feel that will the fall of the Prayer to St. Michael, Satan felt a bit more powerful.
The latest encyclical, “Caritas in Veritate,” or “Charity in Truth,” has a very full and solid section on subsidiarity, which is the principle that social responsibilities are always to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority. Pope Benedict goes on to say this:
“Subsidiarity is the most effective antidote against any form of all encompassing welfare state…In order not to produce a dangerous universal power of a tyrannical nature, the governance of globalization must be marked by subsidiarity, articulated into several layers and involving different levels that can work together.
“Globalization certainly requires authority, insofar as it poses the problem of a global common good that needs to be pursued. This authority, however, must be organized in a subsidiary and stratified way, if it is not to infringe upon freedom and if it is to yield effective results in practice.”
I think the problem many have -— and it’s an understandable one -— is that they haven’t the time, the sustained interest, or the analytical ability to read and digest a 30,000 word encyclical. So they glom onto some Reuters take-away quote, never noting that it’s in the midst of a much larger argument dealing with the crying need for localized and personalized initiative and responsibility.
OK, so, there’s also a call for globalized authority -— but for what? For ~only~ those already-existing transnational exigencies which can’t be dealt with by your own initiative, your family, your business, your county commissioners, your governor and state legislature, or your national government alone: problems like Robert Mugabe making off with the Zimbabwe national treasury in his suitcase, or international traders dealing in novel credit instruments whose value is untethered to physical assets, and whose mechanism is understood by nobody.
Everything else in reposed in more local authorities, more local private initiatives, and the more local the better.
Thank you, Pope Benedict.
Mass totally in the vernacular was not condemned at the Council of Trent at all. This is what Trent said:
CANON IX.--If any one saith, that the rite of the Roman Church, according to which a part of the canon and the words of consecration are pronounced in a low tone, is to be condemned; or, that the mass ought to be celebrated in the vulgar tongue only; or, that water ought not to be mixed with the wine that is to be offered in the chalice, for that it is contrary to the institution of Christ; let him be anathema.The heretic is him who says that the Mass ought to be said in the vernacular ONLY. Not him who says it CAN be said that way, but he that says it HAS to be said that way. See the difference?
To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need of a true world political authority, as my predecessor Blessed John XXIII indicated some years ago. Such an authority would need to be regulated by law, to observe consistently the principles of subsidiarity and solidarity, to seek to establish the common good[147], and to make a commitment to securing authentic integral human development inspired by the values of charity in truth.
I do see the ‘difference’; however, it is all couched in vaticanese newspeak.
I am happy to say that I have been able to enjoy the Tridentine Mass in Providence, RI for the last 2 years - it was, literally and figuratively, an epiphany for me.
OMG i am falling on the floor laughing!
The Novus Ordo Missae of Pope Paul VI is not Catholic, neither is the Church after Vatican II.
It violates blatantly everything meant in the word Catholic. Where has our Catholic spirit gone? Are we going to stand up and fight or are we going to let our Holy Faith be totally destroyed by the modernists??
The Tridentine Mass causes unity.
The Novus Ordo Mass causes excessive diversity.
Now then, unity is a mark of the identity of the Church.
Therefore, the Tridentine Mass is according to the identity of the Church, while the Novus Ordo is destructive of her identity.
;-)
Now the Tabernacle is where it belongs. Most of the parish still hold hands during the Our Father, although the priest has explained more than once that the only ones who should be lifting their arms are the priest. The Congregation should be in an attitude of prayer. We now have First Friday's, Novena's every Tuesday, and actual processions on Feast and Holy Days.
We are told in Revelation chapter 13 of a political beast and a religious beast both working hand in hand to bring the Earth under a single governing body.
When the Pope, George Bush Sr., Obama and Al Gore speak of this, one can only wonder if these days are upon us.
These speeches are in so many different languages maybe something is lost in translation. (I only speak English and don’t follow any political of religous leader)
Wow! Good for your parish!
We lose him in about two weeks.
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