Posted on 08/28/2009 10:23:34 AM PDT by rabscuttle385
House Financial Services Chairman Rep. Barney Frank, Massachusetts Democrat, said he expects former GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul's legislation to audit the Fed to pass out of his committee in October as part of a larger regulatory package.
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
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Bills always pass out of committees. The more important votes are the floor votes, which I think this bill will fail.
But who would do the auditing?
Is there anybody in government trustworthy enough?
We should end the FED rather then auditing it.
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2009/08/on-ron-pauls-ahem-audit-fed-supporters.html
They will investigate themselves and once again find nothing out of the ordinary or unlawful. Transparency and all that.
It stands a good shot of passing the House, but I think it is DoA in the Senate.
It may pass for one reason: congressmen (and senators) have egos the size of Texas. The idea that they aren’t allowed to oversee the Fed probably grates on their nerves.
The real question will be whether Obama vetos the bill.
ACORN
I read the title and assumed it was the Onion.
Good for Ron Paul, after a couple decades in the House he may finally manage to get a bill passed.
Ping
I wish we had more representative who spent the last 20 years not passing new laws.
“...Barney Frank...said he expects former GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul’s legislation to audit the Fed to pass out of his committee in October as part of a larger regulatory package.”
This troubles me. I certainly don’t want Congress passing more unnecessary regulation especially attached to something that may do good.
That’s a good question. I for one don’t want Congress directing monetary policy, but then again, I don’t really want anyone directing monetary policy.
“We should end the FED rather then auditing it.”
And replace it with what?
Exactly. A free market has worked for our economy - which is precisely why the Democrats have worked so hard to screw it up.
Great idea!
Got any suggestions as to how we can ocomplish it?
i believe that the text of the bill calls for the GAO to do the auditing.
Can't think of anyone else with sufficient resources to do that big of a job.
The key is that Frank is going to attach it to another bill. There will be enough undesirable elements to the larger bill to get it and Paul's attached bill voted down.
It's an old tactic for getting rid of popular ideas that will open a great big can of worms.
Let be call this to your attention:
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof
Coining money and regulating the value thereof is what congress is supposed to do!
The idea of a national central bank was repugnant to the founders! Up untill the creation of the federal reserve system we did quite well without one too.
I agree wholeheartedly with FromLori. The federal system should be abolished and the treasury department should go back to work doing what they were supposed to do, Coin Money and Keeping it Pure.
Thanks for the reference now that is what I am talking about!
The devil in the details.
But, but, the Fed is our single most important connection with the globalist, international banking oligarchy...what will we do , oh my?
Actually, if it got to the point where the Fed were demolished, I believe there would be many a high profile death in the world.
These people don’t appreciate any attempts at the taking away of their powers.
Approving anything that the Banking Queen would like to avoid is fine with me. Barney and his buddy Chris “Sandwich” Dodd both deserve to dragged out of their offices for a nice dose of citizen anger.
Bills always pass out of committees. The more important votes are the floor votes, which I think this bill will fail.
What???? Most Bills die in Committee. They never make it to the floor for a vote.
It has 283 co-sponsors in the House of Representatives. It has the votes in the House right now as it is.
The Senate version (S. 604) has 23 co-sponsors currently.
I’m not saying I want Congress to neglect it’s Constitutional duties, I’m saying I don’t want a state-run monetary policy with the targeting of interest rates. This implies the lack of any ability to expand or contract the money supply by the any governmental agency. So I too am in favor of ending the Federal Reserve System. The market should determine interest rates and what serves as money.
What do you think of this?
The American Open Currency Standard
http://www.opencurrency.com/index.php
If even a small fraction of people found out about the Federal Reserve and what they are responsible for, there would be riots.
Henry Ford said one time that: "if the American people ever really knew how the banking industry worked there would be riots in the streets."
Would you care to tell us some of the things the FED does that are so repugnant to a free society that if known would cause a riot?
Too much to put into one post. Googling Federal Reserve System gives plenty of links. 36 million links actually.
Can't you post just one example of what you as an individual consider serious enough to cause a riot?
I can search the net as well as anyone; but, I would be interested in what you consider serious enough to incite a riot. Who knows, you may become famous and be the one who is forever known at the one who caused the great 2009 riots.
Interesting
Well, what you posted before about the unconstitutional part for starters. Also the USSC ruling in 1935 that stated Congress shall not delegate its responsilibity onto another entitity, also then makes it unconstitutional and illegal. But that never stopped too much for other stuff our government has done. With Obama, it has been par for the course, so far.
How did I do?
I dont think I will be the cause of any riots. By the way, Im not a fan of Henry Ford per se, I happen to just agree with him on that point.
I don't think you will be the one to go down in history for starting the "Great 2009 Riots".
However; If you want to fill in the blanks about "Also the USSC ruling in 1935 that stated Congress shall not delegate its responsilibity onto another entitity", there may be a chance for you yet.
One of my favorite candidates for starting a riot is:
Court Rules Federal Reserve is Privately Owned
Case Reveals Fed's Status as a Private Institution
See: Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982)
That's where the court ruled that the Fed is a privately owned and operated institution.
Affirmed.
1. United States
There are no sharp criteria for determining whether an entity is a federal agency within meaning of the Federal Tort Claims Act, but critical factor is existence of federal government control over "detailed physical performance" and "day to day operation" of an entity. . . .
2. United States
Federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of a Federal Tort Claims Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations in light of fact that direct supervision and control of each bank is exercised by board of directors, federal reserve banks, though heavily regulated, are locally controlled by their member banks, banks are listed neither as "wholly owned" government corporations nor as "mixed ownership" corporations; federal reserve banks receive no appropriated funds from Congress and the banks are empowered to sue and be sued in their own names. . . .
3. United States
Under the Federal Tort Claims Act, federal liability is narrowly based on traditional agency principles and does not necessarily lie when a tortfeasor simply works for an entity, like the Reserve Bank, which performs important activities for the government. . . .
4. Taxation
The Reserve Banks are deemed to be federal instrumentalities for purposes of immunity from state taxation.
5. States Taxation
Tests for determining whether an entity is federal instrumentality for purposes of protection from state or local action or taxation, is very broad: whether entity performs important governmental function.
That one has something for everyone. Are they part of the federal government of just a big privately owned bank.
Well, it depends. . .
You are right. The court ruling in 1935 basically stated that Congress can’t put its duties onto another entity, namely coin valuation(paper money too). The Federal Reserve is very much a private consortium of banks which dictate monetary policy, which goes directly against what the US constitution says.
I like the description on the Fed Res’s own website, describing itself as “independent within the government”
By the way, the Federal Reserve technically owns every bill in circulation. There are the words “Federal Reserve Note” on all of them. Like I said, if people really knew how the Fed operates we would not have an economy. We would have “interesting times” , as the Chinese say.
Needs no other words to describe the coming disaster. Kinda mesmerizing watching the numbers whiz away.
A great idea, for people who can't do the math.
Which court ruling said that? Why has that ruling been ignored for 74 years?
In 1935, the US Supreme Court ruled the Congress cannot constitutionally delegate its power to another group or body. 295 U.S.495 SPC vs. US
Here is the US Constitution.
Constitution, Article 1, section 8 — The Congress shall have power — paragraph 5 — To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures.
In 1913 The Federal Reserve Banking Act was passed that unconstitutionally passed this function to the entity that would and still is known as the Federeal Reserve.
Hope this helps.
Do you have a link?
Constitution, Article 1, section 8 — The Congress shall have power — paragraph 5 — To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures.
What about this?
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
“If even a small fraction of people found out about the Federal Reserve and what they are responsible for, there would be riots.”
A large fraction of people already know. Still no riots.
The Federal Reserve, with multiple decades under it’s financial belt, continues to exist independently as if it were a legal precedent, when nothing could be further from the truth.
http://www.tourolaw.edu/Patch/Schechter/ ....I believe the whole case summary.
Your last paragraph does not contradict Constitution Article 1 Section 8.
It does not say to make all laws which delegate Congress’ authority onto other bodies or groups.
The Federal Reserve is not a government entity. Its own website describes itself very slyly as “independent within the government”. If its independent its not in the government. Its like saying someone is just a little pregnant.
We are having not riots, but tea parties. We have to start somewhere. Hopefully the parties will grow louder and attract more people over time. Same with the protests at these so-called “town halls”. They are nothing but propaganda mouthpieces for Obama.
It is independent within the government. It was created by Congress but does not depend on the Congress for funding. They report to Congress but conduct monetary policy without Congress telling them what to do.
Congress created and passed an unconstitutional law then. Article 1, Section 8 states that. Congress does not have the authority or create an entity and delegate Congress’ Constitutional responsibilities onto it, period. The FED does not have the authority to do so, even if Congress passed an unconstitutional law.
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