"Mornin' Sam"
"Mornin' Ralph"
Posted on 08/28/2009 8:41:14 AM PDT by george76
Kathy Konen has lost guard dogs to wolves in the past, but nothing prepared the Dillon rancher for the killing of 120 buck sheep last week.
"They were in the sagebrush, on the creek bottom - just all over the pasture," Konen said Thursday. "It's a terrible loss to our livestock program."
Konen said they discovered the attack Aug. 16 while checking their sheep in the Rock Creek drainage of the Blacktail Mountains south of Dillon, where they pasture buck sheep in summer. She said they check their sheep every two or three days, so the attack was recent.
She and her husband, Jon, immediately called officials with the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks, which sent out a federal trapper to investigate the scene.
The trapper found numerous carcasses of sheep that had been killed by wolves, said Carolyn Sime, FWP wolf program coordinator. The total included 82 confirmed kills and 40 carcasses that were classified as probable kills, including some that had been eaten by bears. The attack occurred on private land the Konens own.
"That's a lot all in one incident," Sime said.
The sheep were just killed and yet the carcasses were almost all intact, Konen said.
"They didn't eat what they killed, most of them were just brought down,"
(Excerpt) Read more at billingsgazette.com ...
“You could kill every wolf that shows up, but more will come,” she said. “It’s close to Yellowstone Park, it’s halfway between Yellowstone Park and central Idaho.”
http://www.mtstandard.com/articles/2009/08/28/area/hjjajbhchghbjc.txt
"Mornin' Sam"
"Mornin' Ralph"
She needs a pack of these...
But....but...I thought wolves were cute and cuddly and only culled out sick, old, or starving animals!
Wolf skins make nice vests,,,,tying their tracking collars to the back axle of a south bound semi is funny too.
It was aliens, come on, wolves would not do that
Eat more lamb! one thousand wolves and one million coyotes can’t be wrong!
Tasty!
SSS policy needed. (Shoot, shovel, shut up!)
Yellowstone Wolves... Smoke a pack a day!
Do you mean the wolves, or the idiots who brought them back? ?
Exactly. Wolves kill for the sport of killing. That is why our elk/moose populations are getting smaller & smaller every day here in Wyoming.
“She said officials asked whether the Konens had taken steps to protect livestock from wolves, including electric fencing, dogs, herders or fladry lines, but they declined. Sime said wolves will inevitably return to the area.”
Nice effort by the Konens.
Gun. Shovel. Hole. Problem solved.
A prime example why wolves were practically eliminated in the lower 48, they don’t just kill to survive.
The bleeding heart animal rights nuts should be the ones to clean up and bury the remains in these attacks.
There are still some breeders out there. I think they're beautiful dogs, but like Danes and other super-large breeds, don't have the kind of longevity I'd hope for.
Obviously this rancher needs to augment her dogs with larger animals who will attack and kill wolves, such as donkeys and llamas. Typically, wolves can still kill such guard animals if they have to, but they will prefer to avoid doing so, as they are a “hard kill” with a strongly likelihood of wolves being injured or killed as well.
In the long term, though, the best solution would be to breed a very large dog, such as the extinct Roman war dog. Once several wolves had been killed by them, the wolf packs will learn that they must be avoided, and will detect their scent and detour by several miles.
First of all, the modern way in which ranchers raise their stock will have to change. In days past, sheep were gaurded 24/7. Without worrying about predators, they could be left alone for several days without much predation. Ranchers will now have to be shepherds of old, keeping watch over their flocks--at all times.
Secondly, they'll have to keep smaller flocks, which means less money, which means a lot of ranchers will go out of the sheep business, which is a danm shame that the government would create this situation. Nevertheless, smaller flocks are easier to keep watch over, dogs can help when you have a smaller flock, and if wolves approach it's a lot easier to defend a small flock rather than running hither and yon trying to keep all safe.
Unusual behaviour for wolves to just bring down sheep. Something strange about that. Wolves, bears, coyotes, and puma tend to bring down what they can eat. They do not tend to kill more ( or at least not the likes of this).
Wolf hounds are so beautiful
These wolves need to establish a local chapter of the Clean Plate Club.
I know a sheep farmer in northern NH that has Maremma sheep dogs from the Italian Alps. The coyotes do not mess with these dogs. They stay out with the sheep year round.
They were bred just for this purpose.
http://www.articlesbase.com/pets-articles/maremma-dog-breed-profile-465317.html
Reading just this far I suspect bad management. The right LGD's will not fall prey to wolves.
Same thing with Kommondor, a flock-residing sheep dog from Hungary.
These dogs are famous for their long, white corded coats, often referred to as resembling ‘dreadlocks’.
The Alpha-Omega Ranch in Idaho uses Kommondor to protect their various livestock.
I am familiar with Kommondor from AKC dog shows.
Maremma’s were bred like Kommondors to protect the flock from bears, wolves and other predators. Maremma’s are not very common in the US. Most people mistake them for Pyranese, the Spanish sheep herding dog. Maremma’s are bigger(125-145 lbs) and more fierce.
“Kathy Konen has lost guard dogs to wolves in the past”
Unfortunately guard dogs are no match for wolves. A pack of wolves is the apex predator in it’s territory. Bears, Mountain lions, coyotes and dogs are no match for them.
“killing of 120 buck sheep last week”
Here in the east, late summer is time of year adult coyotes teach the young to kill prey. I wonder if that’s what was going on here.
I had one once. Thay are just darling. THe most affectionate animal you can imagine.
“...bigger(125-145 lbs) and more fierce.”
Bigger and more fierce is good when dealing with wolves.
The Kommondors at Alpha Omega Ranch are huge - these aren’t show dogs, in fact these aren’t ‘papered’ through the AKC, but imported from Hungary.
Maremma sound like an excellent resident herd dog. Thanks for the info.
I’ve thought about buying and raising sheep, but absolutely will not pasture them on open range.
I have a farmer friend in N.W. Kansas who hunts coyotes with greyhounds. One of them, the biggest, was part wolfhound, part greyhound and part wolf........It had the size and fur of a wolfhound, the muscular legs and speed of the greyhound and the eyes of the wolf. It was one cool looking dog.....
Since a pack can be as large as 20 (usual runs 12-15), 23 is not a large overkill for just pure “joy of killing”.
I am not saying it never happens. What I suggest is that when you ranch you are in the ‘wilderness’ to give your stock a chance to graze. It is one of the risks that other predators will invade ‘your’ space and will take livestock.
Wolf Trust
Wolf Depredation
2. Perspective On Losses
Do Wolves Inevitably Kill Livestock?
It is widely believed that wolves only kill the easiest animals to catch. Why chase swift quick-witted and potentially dangerous deer armed with flailing hooves and stabbing horns when slow-moving defenceless sheep are all around? Of course wolves kill livestock animals. But do wolves inevitably kill them all the time?
Wolves On The Range
There are wolf packs in North America surrounded by farmland but, interestingly, they normally do not molest or kill the livestock around them. Wolves have lived on the Agassiz National Wildlife Refuge in north-west Minnesota since the 1980’s, for example, and are entirely surrounding by farmland. The perceived threat of these wolves to the livestock prompted research on their habits in the late 1990’s.
Seventeen wolves were caught, radio collared and studied for 17 months around the clock (Gese 2003). The finding were that the wolves were active mainly at night and made forays from the reserve throughout the year into the farm land. The wolves on their treks frequently passed several groups of livestock without molesting them. Instead they fed on wild prey, mainly moose, white-tailed deer and muskrats. Wolves in the area did occasionally kill livestock, but on average only once a year. So it turns out that the risk to livestock from wolves in Agassiz is minimal. Ironically, before the study, people thought it best to destroy these wolves to avoid wolf-livestock friction.
Livestock Toleration
The same wolf toleration for livestock is noted elsewhere in the US and western Canada (eg Fritts et al 1992; Mech 1995; Bangs et al 2001). Therefore wolves co-existing amicably with livestock might be common and widespread.
Of course, just because some wolves are livestock-friendly it does not mean that livestock toleration is necessarily inevitable by wolves in all situations. There may be many regions where circumstances are such that wolves do not co-exist amicably most of the time with livestock.
Nevertheless, the findings show that wolves do not necessarily kill livestock all the time. This stands to reason, because if wolves always took the easiest prey, then they would always live entirely on livestock where wolf and livestock range overlap, which is not found to be the case.
But this raises a major question. Why do wolves not kill more livestock than they do? This is tackled on the next page: 3 - Livestock Toleration.
How Much Livestock Do Wolves Kill?
Full and reliable statistics about wolf depredation in past times are rare. Records were simply not kept or, if they were, are meagre and incomplete. However, statistics of wolf depredation were started recently in North America and they are the most reliable records of wolf depredation.
Just saying .......
No, this is usual behavior for wolves. This is the reason rational man undertook to eradicate wolves in first place. It is why livestock used to be guarded 24/7 by human shepherds. Rational man eradicated wolves in order to reduce the human labor costs.
It is ignorant people like yourself that confuse the issues and create environmental and financial mayhem for livestock owners. Bear and puma (cougar is the non pretentious name) are solitary by nature which is why they operate on a kill and eat basis. Wolves are pack oriented and like humans will engage in frenzy killing and the animal version of genocide.
Wolf Trust
Wolf Depredation
2. Perspective On Losses
Do Wolves Inevitably Kill Livestock?
It is widely believed that wolves only kill the easiest animals to catch. Why chase swift quick-witted and potentially dangerous deer armed with flailing hooves and stabbing horns when slow-moving defenceless sheep are all around? Of course wolves kill livestock animals. But do wolves inevitably kill them all the time?
Wolves On The Range
There are wolf packs in North America surrounded by farmland but, interestingly, they normally do not molest or kill the livestock around them. Wolves have lived on the Agassiz National Wildlife Refuge in north-west Minnesota since the 1980’s, for example, and are entirely surrounding by farmland. The perceived threat of these wolves to the livestock prompted research on their habits in the late 1990’s.
Seventeen wolves were caught, radio collared and studied for 17 months around the clock (Gese 2003). The finding were that the wolves were active mainly at night and made forays from the reserve throughout the year into the farm land. The wolves on their treks frequently passed several groups of livestock without molesting them. Instead they fed on wild prey, mainly moose, white-tailed deer and muskrats. Wolves in the area did occasionally kill livestock, but on average only once a year. So it turns out that the risk to livestock from wolves in Agassiz is minimal. Ironically, before the study, people thought it best to destroy these wolves to avoid wolf-livestock friction.
Livestock Toleration
The same wolf toleration for livestock is noted elsewhere in the US and western Canada (eg Fritts et al 1992; Mech 1995; Bangs et al 2001). Therefore wolves co-existing amicably with livestock might be common and widespread.
Of course, just because some wolves are livestock-friendly it does not mean that livestock toleration is necessarily inevitable by wolves in all situations. There may be many regions where circumstances are such that wolves do not co-exist amicably most of the time with livestock.
Nevertheless, the findings show that wolves do not necessarily kill livestock all the time. This stands to reason, because if wolves always took the easiest prey, then they would always live entirely on livestock where wolf and livestock range overlap, which is not found to be the case.
But this raises a major question. Why do wolves not kill more livestock than they do? This is tackled on the next page: 3 - Livestock Toleration.
How Much Livestock Do Wolves Kill?
Full and reliable statistics about wolf depredation in past times are rare. Records were simply not kept or, if they were, are meagre and incomplete. However, statistics of wolf depredation were started recently in North America and they are the most reliable records of wolf depredation.
Home - Wolf Trust
Home - Thinking Wolves
Wolf Depredation
1 Introduction
2 Perspective On Losses
3 Livestock Toleration
4 Verifying Wolf Kills
5 Economic Impact
6 Wolf-Killed Dogs
7 Surplus Killing
8 Conclusions
9 References
Wolves were widespread in the US but in the lower 48 presently live in only eight states: Arizona, Idaho, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, New Mexico, Wisconsin and Wyoming. About 17 percent of cattle and 30 percent of sheep in the US live in these states (Meier 2001). (Wolves live in Alaska but depredation there is not an issue because there is no large scale livestock ranching.)
Table 1 shows the total number of livestock the wolves living in these eight states are verified to have depredated over a number of years for which there are data. (Verified means an animal was objectively investigated to have been taken by a wolf, see 4 - Verifying Wolf Kills).
Take Minnesota for example, where there are more wolves than all the other states combined. Since 1979, when there were a few hundred wolves, their number has grown to 2,500. During these 22 years the wolves have killed 1,200 cattle and fewer than 900 sheep. That is less than one livestock animal per wolf per year. Thus the number of livestock animals wolves kill in the US is very low. It is so low that even if you assume the number of depredated livestock is several times larger because of counting error, it would still be very low.
The research and tracking have been very clear. You can hate wolves all you want. This pack is in an area where ranching is risky.
It’s called ‘surplus killing’.
Here’s a brief wiki article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing
I first read about the hyena in a National Geographic years ago, and they likened it to what packs of wolves will do to caribou (just as an example).
See you’re drinking the wolftrust koolaid. That website is full of biased interpretations and error because they prefer wolves to people. Surprise, surprise.
Thousands of years of human experience can’t possibly be right in the face of mushy environmentalist’s emotions over those noble and natural predaters.
SSDD
A rifle and a shovel solve a whole multitude of problems.
Are you getting this info from Wolf Trust, a UK AR organization?
When quoting or listing excerpts from articles it’s standard procedure to provide a link that identifies the source.
Maybe a petition is needed for Konan sheep and guard dogs to be added to the endangered species list.
And hyenas are noted for this type of behavior. They travel in huge packs by comparison to wolves. I am not saying we should protect wolves no matter what. All I said was that for wolves this is not typical behavior
agenda 21
Giving a fellow FReeper the assumption of innocence, may I suggest that the entire premise of your post #20 is both false and straight from the envivo-socialist talking points handbuch (German spelling/implication deliberate).
What bureau-scientists like Lil Debbie, Paul Beyer, ad nauseam, call “a surplus kill” is really best described by it real name, “Killing frenzy”.
Wolves are particularly prone to such behavior.
“However, statistics of wolf depredation were started recently in North America and they are the most reliable records of wolf depredation.”
With all due respect, I must call Bravo Sierra on the above.
Wolf depredation records are kept by the same gooberment goobers who put the wolves back into the areas in the first place.
Conflict of interest, just maybe ? ? ? ?
All offers by NGO wolf huggers are even more “nuanced”, and somehow, just somehow, virtually no livestock losses are “verified” to the NGO standards for a ‘verified’ wolf kill.
Rather than just SSS the wolves, an argument can be made that SSS’ing some wolf goobers would soon solve the problem.
I do need to point out that cougar WILL engage in feeding frenzy behavior, if they gain entrance to a livestock pen.
Just such a killing frenzy occurred at the Trail Lakes Campground, near Naples. A radio collared cougar had been killing livestock regularly. Lets call it the “Goat-A-Day Diet”.
The goobers in the gooberment agencies knew exactly what had been happening for weeks, but refused to do anything about the appetitive behavior of their pampered panther.
One such goober was videoed saying he was not concerned about the children at the campground, and even said it on two occasions.
More egregious was the head of the Big Cypress National Preserve, Debbie Jansen (A.K.A Lil Debbie, the intellectual Twinkie), looking into my video camcorder and saying “that panther (local term for a cougar) can be an asset to this campground”.
As she spoke, on the morning after the killing frenzy the night before, the flies were already thick on the carcasses, swelling in the Florida heat.
The callous adherence to the Agenda Uber Alles mindset of the National Park Service (NPS) was on display. Skeptics may go to www.EvergladesInstitute.org and view Lil Debbis’s egregious example of bureauthink.
Yeah I like that
I have read numerous reports about the wolves that were reintroduced in New Mexico and Arizona.
They are terrorizing the people that live there. Just last weekend while at my parents home in NE AZ I heard a radio report of a school being locked down, AGAIN due to the wolves stalking children in the school yard.
I looked for the story on the internet but didn’t find it, yet.
I personally have seen the photos of the wolf depradations, (that’s a pretty word for murder) of household pets, horses, cattle and sheep.
I have also read the reports of local ranchers, and their families who have been stalked by these wolves that they are not ALLOWED to kill.
Just more examples of our wonderful government and their crazy ideas.
Thank you for bringing sanity to the discussion.
Tens of thousands of women with wolf tattoos
cant be wrong.
If any predator is stalking a human, said human CAN legally kill said predator.
Dept. of Inferior AgencyPersons will no doubt try to file a case, but all the person has to do is say “I was afraid for my life.”
It works for predatory humans - how can a mere beast of the field be different?
The correct phrase is:
“I had a reasonable fear for my life.”
Saying you were “afraid” for your life means that they can argue “stark fear” in court. You want to set forth the idea that you had a “reasonable fear” — that any “reasonable” person, put into your place, with the facts at your disposal, would reach the same conclusion, ie, that your life was in danger.
Shoot, shovel, shut up.
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