Any questions?
Posted on 08/21/2009 10:53:29 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross
Earlier this week, some of my National Review colleagues recoiled from Sarah Palin’s bracing allegation that Obamacare would foist government “death panels” on vulnerable Americans. I recoiled from the recoil, which I thought exemplified the same sort of “hysteria” the editorial in question, “Rationing and Rationality,” condemned. There followed a debate (see The Corner archives for August 17 and 18), largely a fine parsing of how — rationally, of course — the term “death panel” ought to be defined. As we went back and forth, I kept having this nagging thought:
We could still blow this thing. (snip)
Things may appear to be going well at the moment for opponents of Obamacare, but the stubborn fact remains that only one thing can stop this monstrosity: wavering congressional Democrats’ discovery that they have more to fear from their districts than from their leadership and the White House. The ardor of public opposition will determine whether this battle is won or lost.(snip)
Obama, of course, wanted health-care “reform” done — all 1,000-plus pages of it — before the summer recess. In essence, Democrats want to repeal individual liberty; move one-sixth of the private sector into the same government-controlled model that has produced bankruptcy in Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid; add additional trillions to the already exploded national debt; and they want to do it all right now — no discovery, no settlement negotiations, no five-week trial, no delays.
Given this Democratic whirlwind, I don’t see why we owe them better than “death panels.” They are what we’re sure to get if Obamacare isn’t killed first.
(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...
We could still blow this thing. Great warning Andy. Man, just for once you would hope the idiot party could aim our weapons only at the Marxists instead at each other. This is way too important to blow over infighting on semantics.
but the stubborn fact remains that only one thing can stop this monstrosity: wavering congressional Democrats’ discovery that they have more to fear from their districts than from their leadership and the White House
Exactly. Obama has unlimited pork to ensure that all the Dems vote for him, UNLESS they fear they will be thrown out on their ears for doing so. And as Politico points out in a recent comment linked on Drudge, there's every sign that will happen as long as we hold their feet to the fire.
So why are the effete snobs at NRO so anxious to aid the enemy, like they did last fall right before the election?
Oh yeah Andy, we darn sure WILL blow it with that squeamish, mincing way of yours. No thanks, I’m on the attack and so are my friends. You can hide behind skirts if you wish, meanwhile, Sarah is leading this charge! GO SARAH! Show men how to be men again instead of girly-men like Andy.
Republicans CAN’T stop this - don’t have the votes. Only Democrats can.
Of course the Democrats want "death panels" and they want them now. They are the party of class warfare and greed. We are their "class enemy". All of them actually believe the world would be a better place if only Democrats inhabited it.
That means that health care providers have no individual rights. The collective right of the people to receive health care would supersede the provider's individual right to set their fees, their hours or change their occupational status or even decide how to apply their skills and knowledge. A collective right, by practical definition, is a state right because it is a right that is provided by the government to all not protected by the government as something possessed by each person. It is also a state right because it supersedes the individual rights of others when the two come into conflict.
It isn't stated in any of the bills that a patient's rights to care supersedes a provider's right to set fees and hours etc, but it doesn't need to. Rights are always adjudicated in the courts. The legislation simply establishes the foundation for the courts to rule in favor of the patient's collective right to health care.
Weiner’s view is collectivist, fascist and totalitarian. Collectivist because it is superior to an individual right. Fascist because it is overseen by one entity the Federal government. Totalitarian because the Federal government is the true possessor of this collective right and the administrator and enforcer of it as well.
Congressman Weiner's view is the underlying philosophy of the entire Health Care Reform legislation the House and Senate have put forth. Consider the setting up of community watch dogs to monitor various health parameters of citizens in the Senate version of the bill. Look at pages 382 - 393.
TITLE I—QUALITY, AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL AMERICANS
Even the citizens themselves will be subject to state set regulations on their behavior in order to fulfill the human right of universal health care. It isn't the individual's liberty that is being protected by that it is the state's control over its health care system that is being guarded. How much clearer can it be that these bills abrogate the concept of individual rights?
Health Care is a Liberty Issue Conservative Underground - 18 August 2009 - Tim Dunkin
Second Bill of Rights aka FDR's economic bill of rights (An early attempt to embed collective rights into American politics and society.)
President reinstates VA's "Death Book."
Why his fascination with death for the very ill, injured, and old?
President Embalma?
Pretty simple. They are quivering in their loafers at the prospect of being embarrassed. That's why Beck is so effective--he isn't fearful.
Most of the NROs are weaklings who are ashamed of conservatives. Kouric threw deep fear into their trembly little hearts.
Throwing Cap and Trade into the garbage heap should be a slam dunk.
I don't know.
That's a lot to ask.
That's the advantage that the unprincipled have over the principled.
Who was it that said the reason liberals organize and protest more effectively than conservatives is that its easier to get adrenaline flowing with hate than with catch phrases like "Let's be reasonable!".
It's the same syndrome that allows vermin like Bill Maher to get paid to spew anti-Christian bigotry, among other hateful cynicism.
If we could actually consistently live out our principles instead of letting our desire to be compassionate make us wishy-washy and inconsistent, the Marxist/Humanists who rightly believe they're on the cusp of engulfing the United States into their self-aggrandizing world of relativism would never even have gotten a foot hold in a nation that once honored individual freedom.
Because somebody like Palin succeeding threatens the beltway elitist establishment that all the effete snobs at NRO have come to love just as much as the ‘natives’ have. Most are complicit. Frum was not the only idiot that needed to be purged over at NRO.
There's an understatement for you.
(I started to post something like "Thank you, Captain Obvious", as an attempt at humor in the face of tragedy, but thought you might interpret that as sarcastic and that I felt it wasn't worth stating.)
I actually wish to agree with you and encourage you to point it out whenever appropriate.
Because the effete snobs at NR want to be seen as “serious, thoughtful writers” by the people at the NY/DC/Boston salons and chit-chat circuit.
The fact is this: the NR type of “conservative” is “conservative” only for reasons of intervention in foreign affairs and because they’re nominally Catholic, they’re anti-abortion. That’s it. There is no serious fiscal conservative core at NR, there is no serious consideration of gun rights, property rights, etc at outfits like NR.
Great piece, and let me just point out that it was the political acumen of Sarah Palin who first identified this as a key weakness of Obamacare and coined the term “death panel” to bring it to light.
Rush just brought Andrew McC’s article on his show. Andrew is pretty good and I have only seen 1 or 2 things he’s written that I seriously did not agree with. Overall NRO is OK but they are in need of some spine stiffening.
Rush just brought Andrew McC’s article on his show. Andrew is pretty good and I have only seen 1 or 2 things he’s written that I seriously did not agree with. Overall NRO is OK but they are in need of some spine stiffening.
He's right that this is far from over.
There are two keys for the Left in achieving revolutionary change in America: nationalizing health care, and amnesty for illegals.
On nationalizing health care, if they can manage to get the camel's nose under the tent, then the natural regulatory momentum will eventually get them the rest of the way there.
It has taken a lot to get Americans to focus on what ObamaCare will mean for them. If the Left can get even a slim legislative foundation for nationalizing health care, then they know there will be less focus, with the help of a compliant media, on actions taken to further the goal at the regulatory level and even legislative additions down the road, if done incrementally, will have a much lower profile.
Once the system is in place, it will be practically impossible to dislodge, because the principal debate in American politics will become which party can better manage the government-run health care system. There is hardly an easier political topic for the left-wing to demagogue with the assistance of the media, as opponents will naturally seem uncompassionate.
Amnesty is the second key for the far Left. If they get amnesty, they will get another opportunity to go for nationalized health care and, really, any other left-wing project they want.
The advantage of going for health care first is that it will act as a magnet for even greater illegal immigration.
Then, by the time amnesty is fully implemented, the number of potential new Democrat voters will thereby be even greater than now, so the Democrat blocs of blacks, hispanics, single women, single mothers and white liberals will likely be enough to sustain a more radical Left agenda, even if a large portion of white senior citizens defect to the Republicans.
This whole debacle reminds me of the movie “Wargames”.
In this anti-nuke war flick the conclusion comes down to playing Tic-Tac-Toe where numerous scenarios are run through a computer which comes to the conclusion the only way to win a nuke war is not to start one.
The Democrats, thanks to Zero, have stumbled into this very scenario. They have started a war with the rampant leftist spending and with Obamicare have started the equivalent of the nuke war.
They will lose no matter what the outcome. If it fails they lose their base for at least 1 to 3 election cycles, if it passes they get completely wiped out in 2010 and 2012 to the point that this monstrosity gets overturned prior to enactment. They then lose for many election cycles and Obamacare ends up dead anyway.
A guy can hope right?
The democrats will pass this, bank on it. They are currently engaged in the mental process of insulating themselves from public opinion. When der schlickmeister himself says something like, “just wait until this is passed and then we will be popular,” you just know where the democrat’s heads are. Liberals watch liberal TV, liberal news and talk to other liberals. As a result of this circle jerk they believe that whatever they are doing is what is best for us and they will be adored by the American people for doing it. Alas, no amount of protesting will convince them otherwise. Only hitting them at the polls will get through to them. Then again, that does not even work anymore as they declare any election they lose to be “stolen.”
Why? It is what they're instituting.
What is it about this compulsion to derive the mantle of rationality by pretending centrism? One would think it a denial of the existence of evil, which would then demand a response as if our lives depended upon it.
Oh, but that would be so very unpleasant! It's really so much easier to sip our vino while we do the slow swirl watching "the little people" go down the drain below.
Any questions?
Your characterization of Andy McCarthy’s elitist NR colleagues as denying “the existence of evil” while “sipping their vino” and avoiding the “so very unpleasant” and distasteful argumentative nature of the conservatives in the party is Spot On! Hang in there Andy! You are the sane one.
“let me just point out that it was the political acumen of Sarah Palin who first identified this as a key weakness of Obamacare and coined the term “death panel” to bring it to light.”
Umm ... no. Lots of people had keyed on the “kill Granny” aspects of the bill back in July. They/we also noted the *three* aspects that were ‘kill granny’ - Medicare squeeze, the end-of-life ‘consultation’ provisions, and the bureaucrats doing the ‘quality of life’ (QALY) judgments in a Federal board. Many other bloggers and leaders saying this stuff for several months now, here’s My blog’s July articles on this, well before Palin:
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2009/07/obamacare-outrage-16-forcing-old-people.html
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2009/07/ten-ways-obamacare-will-kill-you.html
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2009/07/obamacare-outrage-13-replacing-doctors.html
It’s good to have Palin on board opposing ObamaCare but saying she was the first there on these points is silly.
The 4 horsemen of the Obama apocalypse: Massive expansion in Government spending (with higher debt, deficits and taxes for years to come), cap & tax control of energy/industrial sector, nationalizing health care, and amnesty for illegals.
Taken together, these would turn us in Greater France.
Where's John McCain? He'll save obama's sorry ass.
Palin, like Ronald Reagan before her, did something vital and brilliant that nobody else did: she condensed all the good arguments you and others have made against Obamacare into one brilliant, accruate term, "Death Panels," made it stick, and forced the Illegal Alien and his accomplices onto the defensive.
As for Palin's comments, Chris Wallace announced on Fox&Friends this morning that he will have a discussion of the VA book on Sunday's program. That may serve to validate Palin's position but won't stop critics who never bother with facts.
The ‘death panel’ terminology has been critiqued as over-the-top. IN fact, it’s *not* the best way to talk about it. Saying Obamacare will “Kill Granny” is actually more accurate, since as has been noted there *IS* no ‘death panel’ per se, rather there is a set of things that will be put in place that will lead to denial and rationing of care, in paricular to the elderly. Obama himself alluded to it when talking of the possible futility of hip replacement for his own grandmother.
Palin’s utility is that the left so hates and mocks her that they will publicize her comments as a way to tear them down. This ironically helped highlight criticisms of Obama.
“forced the Illegal Alien and his accomplices onto the defensive.” ... the AMERICAN PEOPLE in many townhalls did that. Prior to Palin’s statement, there were 300 angry patriots at Rep Lloyd Doggett’s townhall here in Austin, TX. Aug 1st. It made national News and helped set the stage for dozens of other events like it.
Politicians are trying to get out in front of the parade of Americans protesting ObamaCare and Obama’s agenda. It doesnt mean they are leading it. This is bottom-up grassroots opposition to socialism and would be just as strong and potent even if Palin were silent on it.
That comment recalls the Iowahawk satire of Chris Buckley.
I've got to ask: Did you actually read his article? Did you understand a word he wrote?
He is clearly on your -- and Sarah's -- side!
So, why the hell lay a broadside on him?
Criminy.
I may have, I apologize. I think this was a heavy news morning and last night going from one betrayal to the next. Happens sometimes...
I heard from a neighbor that he will be in Estes Park, CO next Monday with CO commie Sen. Mark Udall pushing the Global Warming agenda.
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