Posted on 08/16/2009 12:12:52 PM PDT by IbJensen
FRIDLEY, Minn. - The Rev. Dave Glesne stood before the members of Redeemer Lutheran Church a few weeks ago and told them there might be some painful decisions in the near future.
Glesne is against letting people in same-sex relationships serve as pastors of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, and he says his congregation is behind him. They're worried this suburban Minneapolis church could find itself on the losing side as leaders of the nation's largest Lutheran denomination vote on whether to take that step at their biennial national convention, which starts Monday in Minneapolis.
"Of course the question was asked: What will we do, Pastor Dave, if this goes?" Glesne said. "The conversation we had left me no doubt that we will definitely have a discussion about leaving the ELCA."
Avoiding such divisions was a main goal of an ELCA task force that prepared recommendations for debate by the 1,045 voting members at the convention. One is a revision of ministry standards that would let individual congregations employ gay and lesbian people in committed relationships as clergy. The other is a broader statement on human sexuality, a 34-page document that tries to craft a theological framework for differing views on homosexuality - but which critics say would simply liberalize the ELCA's attitudes.
At 4.7 million members and about 10,000 congregations in the United States, the ELCA would be one of the largest U.S. Christian denominations yet to defy what the Bible says about homosexuality.
In 2003, the 2 million-member Episcopal Church of the United States consecrated its first openly gay bishop, deepening a long-running rift in the worldwide Anglican Communion about homosexuality and Scripture.
(Excerpt) Read more at onenewsnow.com ...
Choose only one below:
A) God
B) Some Religious Denomination
Fear only one below:
A) God
B) Some Religious Denomination
“Come out from among them.” St. Paul
> the ELCA would be one of the largest U.S. Christian denominations yet to defy what the Bible says about homosexuality<
How nice. Defying the Almight above to appease Satan’s minions on earth.
If they’re not going to read the Bible, why in the hell do they even go to church anymore? Seems like a waste of time to me.
Exactly! I’d answer A and Amen!
Exactly! I’d answer A and Amen!
Well, there's always the hot dish after the service ...
kidding...
Homosexuals destroying another denomination.
The have an agenda. They want to be good socialists force others into the economic slavery of socialism and finally into hell itself.
They promote abortion, euthanasia, communism, socialism, and yes, they have no use for the Bible which they believe is chock full of errors.
From what I have read, the ELCA is one of the most theologically and politically liberal denominations around. They are active in promoting what they view as “social justice.”
Barrack Obama attended ELCA churches during the presidential campaign after he left Rev. Wright's church.
The delegates are stacked in favor of the homosexual agenda. The vote won’t even be close...
Moving from Texas to Georgia meant leaving the LCMS church -going to the ECLA church 15 miles up the road was not even an option. Other choices, Presbyterian, United Methodist, Jehovah’s Witness, and Southern Baptist.
Yep, had to get dunked since my infant sprinkling was not sufficient ( I believe the sprinkling took)to join the Southern Baptists.
I am a Lutheran and have attented the same church (ELCA brach) for 25 years. I will withdraw my church membership and leave the Lutheran church if this takes place.
When I read reports of mainline protestant denominations losing members; what mystifies me is why they have not lost all their members.
Interesting options for a Lutheran. Richard John Neuhaus found yet another, and joined Creyton Abrams, Bob Bork, and Clarence Thomas, among others.
Funny this is, if MN's capitol city wasn't just as uptight and politically correct as the rest, then your line above would be a great slogan to recruit Mpls straights to move across the river to St. Paul.
But quoting the wise fellow that you're named after is probably asking too much of any enlightened humanist city government.
I do not know enough about the ELCA to judge them regarding weekly church teachings. But, regardless what flavor of Christianity, most denominations cover so little of the bible in Sunday sermons that a person not studying His word outside of church might never read/hear much of it. And if ELCA, like many others, has 'bulletins' or 'advisories' or guidelines of some kind that come down from a hierarchy of power, then the range of biblical text covered in masses is likely even smaller.
Many Christian individuals and denominations are confused about God's law. And it's because of issues like this one and the people promoting the acceptance of a popular sin. This is a perfect example of what Paul would call bad leaven, which left in the body (church), will eventually corrupt the whole.
Considering your "why the hell..." question again, always remember what it is that Satan finally seeks and God ultimately abhors. It is to have the masses reject God's law in favor of false wisdom. Sure, the devil will sit on your shoulder and try to get you to break God's laws now and then. But the real goal of the great hell raiser is to convince as many as possible to reject God's law.
Many today actually think the laws of the old testament were done away with after Christ. Hell, even Catholics think it ok to eat pork now. Jesus was the final and perfect sacrifice. Thus putting an end to the blood rituals of course. But as Christ Himself reminded us, He was not sent to change one bit of His Father's law.
“Of course the question was asked: What will we do, Pastor Dave, if this goes?” Glesne said. “The conversation we had left me no doubt that we will definitely have a discussion about leaving the ELCA.”
elca.org is a wealth of knowledge about liberal lutherans.
The ELCA policy on abortion and their homosexual agenda is all there.
How is it that a church pretends to be Christian and supports abortion on demand at the same time?
I was raised a conservative Lutheran. My great grandfather was a Lutheran pastor.
I am sickened by the liberals of the ELCA. I spoke with a local ELCA pastor and asked him if it was true what was on the elca.org website. He said yes, even about the ELCA’s pro-abortion policy. I feel sorry for them everytime I drive by that false church.
That's old news. Those who seek a more orthodox religion shun ELCA.
I was raised, and consider myself still a Missouri Synod Lutheran. For reasons of physical convenience (close to home), I have been a member of, and was married in an ELCA church. The ELCA is wrong on this, and many other issues.
I grew up in the ALC which eventually became the ELCA and that was when we couldn't take it any more and left for the LCMS.
If I couldn't find an LCMS close, I don't know what I would do.
We worshipped this am in our LCMS. Let me assure you, it is 100% Biblical. It’s giving me just what I want after leaving the apostate ELCA.
I still have family who attends there. I can barely stand to go inside the church. They've changed even the appearance of it. It is so sad.
They must have forgotten that little problem the Catholic church had not too long ago......
Feel the need to explain my PCA Presbyterian position as opposed to the USA Presbyterian.
PCA is Reformed Presbyterian.
USA is .....mostly apostate, IMO.
lol. so lutherans are finally coming out of the closet are they?
I agree. The Bible says even Satan and his demons know the Bible inside and out. When Christ was tempted, Satan used Bible verses (twisted and out of context) to make his case against the son of God. Indeed Christ was the fulfillment of the law, he IS the law. The beautiful thing is when he was crucified the temple veil was torn in two, giving us direct access to the King of Glory!
That's great to hear. Good luck and God bless!
Exactly! He did not change the law. He paid the price required by the law thus changing our path to forgiveness when we break the law. The ending of the need for blood ordinances has nothing to do with ending the righteous wisdom of His eternal law. But some Christians confuse the two.
Misguided and undisciplined churches and denominations have historically led more people away from God's true word than any one or any thing - except maybe the modern public schools.
Paul spent a great deal of time going around to various cities and re-focusing the young churches. Getting them to stay centered on His word and to quit branching off into false doctrines. Fortunately for us, Paul could not always make the journey in person and instead sent letters which have been preserved to our great benefit.
He also needed to prod even the well-meaning young Christians to put some thought into their study of His word. To understand the deeper meanings. To, as he would say, get off the "milk" and on to the "meat" of God's word. Paul would be crying over all the milk being spilt out there today - "I'm Christian because I try to be 'good'". And over the conspicuous lack of meat.
I too think of my older living relatives and all the dearly departed and how the church has changed. As far as I know, only the Missouri Synod Lutheran Churches are conservative and like the old time churches. There are enough Missouri Synod churches around so that my relatives are still members. In my area there is not a Missouri Synod church.
I foolishly joined the local lutheran church when I moved here, only to find out about the ELCA affiliation later. I bugged out of there a few days after my first clue something was wrong. I talked with the so-called pastor to make sure what I read about the ELCA was true and he said yes it was. He had no qualms about supporting abortion right to my face as I told him I could not support a church that condoned abortion.
I drive by that church a lot. It is so sad to know all those people go there and many probably do not know about the depravity of the ELCA. All many see are the church services and good things about the church. But at the root, the place is rotten. I fear that many have not looked into where their offerings go. The pastor tried to placate me saying only a small portion of my offerings went to the ELCA. I told him one penny was too much.
The problem is that 70% of the pastors and bishops in ELCA are liberal/very liberal and leading a flock that is 70% conservative. These pastors/bishops hand pick or greatly influence who goes to the synod/churchwide assemblies. If this passes I will be seriously praying about leaving this apostate church.
“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight.”
Isaiah 5:20-21
There is no excuse for any conservative/Republican to be attending any one of these so-called "churches".
• African Methodist Episcopal Church
• The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
• Alliance of Baptists
• American Baptist Churches in the USA
• Diocese of the Armenian Church of America
• Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
• Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
• Church of the Brethren
• The Coptic Orthodox Church in North America
• The Episcopal Church
• Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
• Friends United Meeting
• Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
• Hungarian Reformed Church in America
• International Council of Community Churches
• Korean Presbyterian Church in America
• Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
• Mar Thoma Church
• Moravian Church in America Northern Province and Southern Province
• National Baptist Convention of America
• National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
• National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
• Orthodox Church in America
• Patriarchal Parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church in the USA
• Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends
• Polish National Catholic Church of America
• Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
• Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.
• Reformed Church in America
• Serbian Orthodox Church in the U.S.A. and Canada
• The Swedenborgian Church
• Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch
• Ukrainian Orthodox Church of America
• United Church of Christ
• The United Methodist Church •
First, make sure you realize there are Lutherand and then there are Lutherans. We left the apostate ELCA for the conservative LCMS.
Apparently not the Missouri or Wisconsin synods. Just the morally corrupt ELCA.
In all fairness, homosexuals have destroyed another denomination because they've been allowed to. Be assured that this fiasco is but the ultimate fruit of many small abrogations of scriptural teaching over a very long period of time - the rot has now made it to the core.
One such breach is the completely unscriptural practice of allowing women as minister and deacons. I don't know of one who isn't a radical feminist.
“hot dish”
I LOVE that term...so Minnesooooootan. ;D
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