Posted on 08/03/2009 4:13:21 AM PDT by Brandonmark
City Manager Bill Horne didn't think taking down Old Glory at a few city properties would be a big deal.
He was wrong.
Several weeks ago, city workers started removing American flags from city properties. In all, 13 of the city's 50 flags came down, according to Mayor Frank Hibbard.
But the cost-cutting measure has sparked outrage, especially among veterans groups, prompting city leaders to revisit the decision at a workshop this morning.
"It's a knock at our country," said John Smith, canteen manager at the Hercules VFW Post 2473. "It's the only city in the United States that has done this. It's unreal. What are kids going to think?
"You remove the flag, you are removing our freedom," said Smith, a Vietnam veteran. "That is what it comes down to."
For city leaders, the move is about money, not patriotism. Like other local governments, Clearwater is trimming expenses, amid falling property tax revenues. Flying fewer flags means the city won't have to spend as much to replace, light and maintain them.
"This is reducing the number of flags," Horne said. "This is not changing our nationality. It is not doing something unpatriotic."
The flags will keep flying at city hall, the administrative services building, city ballparks, police and fire stations, Horne said. But they have been removed from less visible locations, such as a city maintenance building and the city's nursery, which are only used by workers.
The flag is also missing from a more visible location, though: the Memorial Causeway Bridge, where a memorial pays tribute to veterans from both world wars. The city removed the flag and the flagpole after drivers complained that the light that lit the flag at night was impairing visibility. The city is looking at how to fix the lighting, Horne said.
Hibbard said he can understand removing some of the flags, but he objects to taking down the flag at the memorial. A flag will be returned there, he said.
"This is an example of the fact that we are looking at literally everything. Nothing's off the table," the mayor said. "At the same time, you can't get too zealous and perhaps change the character of your community."
Critics also question the way the decision was made to remove the flags. Despite the passions that often surround where and how the American flag is flown, city staff members made the decision without consulting city council members or asking local veterans groups for help maintaining the flags.
Now, the issue is reverberating outside Clearwater.
"It has now become a Pinellas County veterans' issue," said Scott Barber, senior vice commander of VFW Post 10094 in Indian Rocks Beach. "Everybody in the county wants to see that city overturn that decision and put the flags back up."
Taking down a few flags didn't seem controversial, though, to Horne, who said he makes controversial decisions every day.
Because this morning's meeting is a workshop, council members won't be voting on the flag issue, but they could give direction to staff, Horne said. That could mean putting back the flags, putting back some of them or backing the decision to take them down.
If the council agrees that a flag should be removed, its flagpole also will be taken down, Horne said. He didn't know how much that would cost.
Another question is how much it would cost to put back the flagpole at the Memorial Causeway memorial if council members decide to do that.
"This discussion is going to drive what happens next," Horne said.
Today's workshop is set for 9 a.m. at Clearwater City Hall, 112 S. Osceola Ave.
Must be the Scientologists.....
Follow up to original story posted Saturday
Flags ditched...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2305977/posts?q=1&;page=101
Clearwater area Freepers take note of the short notice for the workshop!
Horne needs to hit the bricks.
“This is reducing the number of flags,” Horne said. “This is not changing our nationality. It is not doing something unpatriotic.”
Oh really!
“Now, the issue is reverberating outside Clearwater.”
Thank goodness!
I’m sure they have plenty of money to buy votes with through social programs.
Ping
Clearwater the new socialist vacation spot........PLEASE tell Bill Horne he just lost my my dollars for his cities tourism industry in Clearwater.....and I so loved the annual pilgrimage to the home of hooters....sigh , snif, whimper.
Had he asked veterans groups they probably would have held fund raisers to pay for the 50 flags . Veterans are used to paying Americas debts with blood, solving Hornes inability to manage would have been childs play for vets ....... A fund raising project or using the funds from one old city or county vehicle sold at auction etc would have funded flags.
Now I suggest ya’ll replace the City Manager or cut his pay to fund the flags needed. Seems a City Manager who can’t manage needs to be dropped a pay grade or two........
We have a population of 2500 in my small town and on every patriotic holiday we place a flag on EVERY Home that requests one and also LINE main street with em ! Our city pays for and maintains them etc .......with veterans and their families and friends support.
I agree with you, aside from the fifty number. My guess is had the word been put out he likely would have had standing offers from local businesses to replace the flags for free in addition to getting scores donated.
I was going to eat in Clearwater last night and decided I would spend my sales taxes elsewhere.
Yep, good points !
....city so called manager screwed the pooch. Get’s one awww sh*t in his at’ta boy file for this fiasco !
Stay safe !
Another reason to get rid of a Politician.
I don’t know what’s more disturbing; them taking the flags down, or their continued failure to comprehend why anyone would mind. “Gee, I don’t see what the big deal is. It’s just the American flag. It’s not like it was something important, like a hot pink arch-shaped thingy funded by The Clearwater Public Art and Design Program.”
I believe that reducing the number of bureaucrats is more patriotic and cost-saving than Horne’s idea.
Why not rip down all the flags—wouldn’t that save money? How about not having any more elections—that would save cash. Close the fire departments and just use volunteers! Boy, lots of money can be saved. We could even have an all volunteer police force! Think of the savings! Or, better yet, have a volunteer city mayor and city council drawing no pay! Just think of the savings! Why not open city hall once a week for just a few hours—think of the AC costs that could be saved! We could close the schools too—the kids could get jobs and learn that way—they might even learn more or be home schooled by their own parents—think of the savings! The whole city government could be paid for with a tax on soda pop. We must think outside the box.
Can’t have vets help with flag maintenance — the city employees union will scream.
If they really want to save money, couldn’t they lower the flags at night. I’m sure the Boy Scouts or VFW could be scheduled to do this. They’d save electricity and wear and tear on the fabric. But to completely remove the flag is an obamanation!
Is Bill a Democrat?
“...On the shore dimly seen thro’ the mists of the deep
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the the stream:
‘Tis the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!”
-Francis Scott Key,1814
Darn them anyway!
Maybe a flag in an enclosed area...but then again those workers might need the MOST reminding of their need to work for the people and constitution.
Can’t believe staff did not see this coming! All illegals, and not “citizens” working there too?
It’d be one thing if they were taking down the flags because they wanted to use the money to help a struggling VA hospital, that would be a move that shows some real guts.
I doubt that cost savings is going to go anywhere that will make us proud. It’ll probably pay the salary of some bureaucrat at the department of ‘finding stupid ways to save a nickel’
I thought the City Council didn’t now the flags were being removed. That’s what was reported when this story originally broke.
Poor journalism or lying politicians?
I agree with the first half of the statement and disagree with the second.
Personally, I would like to fly a flag at my home but I'm too busy to properly do it, so I don't. But that does not make me an unpatriotic turd. Of course I'm not a govt. entity either. Still, I think the last part of your statement is over the top.
How about putting them up at open of business and taking them down at end of business. Then you don't need lighting and the flags will last longer.
I think the original story said the Mayor didn’t know about it.
13 of ‘em? Is that a sign?
13 out of 50 is not what was said yesterday. They were saying all of them were going down. I think the Vets should start a fund that will pay for the 13 flags and then both side gets what they want. There are many veteran’s organizations that will contribute to this. Easy solution. I should run for some office.../sarc.
It is a great example, though, of the typical bureaucratic process. Coming to a doctor's office near you.
No, that was my reporting based on word I received.
I think this was done to rattle the taxpayers; not to save money. After all, if they wanted to save money, they would not actively remove the flagpoles. This is the City Manager having a conniption fit and wanting the taxpayers to notice. It is a “look what you made me do” moment.
Bill Horne was appointed by the City Council to serve as the Chief Administrative Officer of the city with responsibility for all departments except the City Attorney's Office. He is one of only two employees who reports directly to the Council. He is directly responsible for 1,846.5 employees and accountable for the annual operating and capital budget of $375 million.
With a wealth of management experience in dynamic and fast paced environments, Bill came to Clearwater in 1998 as the General Support Services Administrator. Prior to that, he served as a Colonel in the United States Air Force. Bill earned his Bachelor of Science in Chemistry from the University of Tulsa, a Masters in Human Resources Management from Pepperdine University, and a Masters in Political Science from Auburn University.
In September 2005, Bill was designated a Credentialed Manager by the International City County Manager Association (ICMA).
No money to fly the flags (how much is that anyway), but they have enough money to take down the poles?
Clearwater officials reverse decision to remove flags!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2307401/posts
If I lived in Clearwater, I would attend the meeting and suggest that more than enough money needed to maintain the flags (and probably cover a few other things as well) could be saved just by getting rid of Horne and eliminating his position. Knock his fat ass off the trough.
The reason municipalities and states are in financial straights is because of a loss of property tax revenues. If they hadn’t been so greedy to begin with and established a bunch of bloated programs with that money when they had it, those programs would not exist to suffer now.
NOT ANOTHER DIME!!!!!!!! QUIT FEEDING THE BEAST!!!!!!!
Of all the places they piss away money surely they can find some cost cutting measure more significant and less symbolic than this.
More bureacratic extortion.
What an elitist, snobby, only-the-higher-ups-deserve-flags statement. The miniscule savings of removing 13 flags can not in any way, shape, or form justify this. I mean seriously what would it be - let's be generous and say it is $100 per flag. That would be $1300 in savings. Really sticks in my craw.
PUSH BACK THE LIBERAL HORDES!!!!!!!! (Mark R Levin)
LOCK 'N LOAD!
Someone should paint the star & stripes on that thing, under cover of darkness.
starS & stripes.
There to help freepers. Enjoy an thanks for the kind words.
Hmmmm. Another bureaucrat educated far beyond his intelligence.
Thanks for info; but never mentions his 'Party' affiliation. Just caught the 'rest of the story' at Atlas Shrugs:
Horne is a Democrat flying low under the radar in Republican-loving Pinellas County.
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