I just love the irony of being on the VPC website.
Posted on 08/02/2009 5:26:19 AM PDT by marktwain
Earlier in July, the Violence Policy Center’s Josh Sugarmann – writing on the Huffington Post website – made what had to be one of the more bone-headed attempts in recent memory to drive a wedge between people in the firearms community when he critiqued remarks written by Jan Libourel, editor of Gun World magazine.
Libourel is an extraordinarily bright guy, well-read in every sense, and – as is common among gun writers – unabashedly opinionated. As a recognized firearms authority, he’s supposed to be opinionated. That’s his job, and he is very good at it. Gun owners enjoy those opinions, even if they don’t always agree with them; it’s a “First Amendment thing.” Evidently, Sugarmann doesn’t get this; not at all surprising since people in the gun prohibition (it’s never been about “control” of guns, but banning them altogether and those guys know it) movement do not seem to “get” much about anything.
Sugarmann tried to exploit something Libourel wrote about semiautomatic rifles, suggesting that his remarks could land him in the same hot water as legendary hunting authority Jim Zumbo a couple of years back. Zumbo said something foolish about AR-15 rifles which he quickly regretted and retracted, turned into a learning experience and ultimately a personal triumph. Zumbo is a friend of mine, and he gained in stature because of his gaffe. I thought his initial criticism of the AR-15 was off base and he knows it, but today Zumbo is one of the last guys in the universe with whom I would wish to tangle on the issue of gun rights, to say nothing of individual character.
Now comes Libourel with this remark, “Nobody but a madman would oppose some sort of gun control laws.” Sugarmann landed on that like a fly on cow dung – possibly with the same intent and motivation – asserting that “a significant portion of the pro-gun organizations and individuals that comprise the activist core of gun ownership in America do oppose ‘some sort of gun control laws.’ In fact, they oppose any sort of gun control laws’.”
No, Josh, they oppose your sort of gun laws; you know, licensing, registration, Draconian storage requirements, retroactive disqualification, mandatory locking devices, bans on legal concealed or open carry, bans on certain types and classes of firearms, confusing paperwork, contradictory language, yadda, yadda, yadda. All of the nonsense that gun owners know has never prevented a single violent criminal act.
Murder is against the law, but people keep doing it, with guns, knives, baseball bats, cars, rocks, poison, you name it.
I have yet to meet a gun owner, including the most rabid gun rights extremist (some people use that phrase to describe me!) who opposes keeping guns away from illegal aliens, violent convicted felons – rapists, murderers, bank robbers, etc. – or people who have been adjudicated as mentally unstable or incompetent.
Sugarmann would have the world believe all of these misfits and average American gun owners are one and the same.
You know, the heavily-armed guy who in his grandiose dreams is linked to a heritage that stretches from the Revolutionary War to the Wolverines of Red Dawn -- and is only seen by the rest of us when he snaps and his last "patriotic" act ends up on the evening news. - Josh Sugarmann
Gun owners would support a law requiring mandatory firearms safety training as part of the public school curriculum, and another law restoring high school rifle teams. Sugarmann’s crowd would oppose such laws. Their idea of “gun safety” is promoting an irrational fear of firearms, in the home, the classroom, on public property and in all business establishments. That hasn't worked.
Gun owners supported a sensible federal proposal that would have required states to honor one another's concealed carry licenses and permits, but Sugarmann's VPC opposed it.
Indeed, when it comes to gun laws, it is the firearms community, not prohibitionists like Sugarmann, who have supported – and demanded adherence to – the ultimate federal gun law, the Second Amendment; prohibitionists want that repealed, not us.
Elsewhere in his Gun World column, Libourel made some remarks about people who had rushed to gun shops since the 2008 elections, buying up AR-15 rifles. I’ve written about that phenomenon in Gun Week. It falls under what we call in the news trade as "fair comment" and is protected by the First Amendment. That's the one that comes right before the Second Amendment.
Sugarmann suggests that Libourel was demonizing these people and the guns they bought, because Jan is self-admittedly an “old fashioned” guy who prefers a “a plain old short-barreled 12 gauge pump gun or autoloader (as) all the urban defense gun I’d ever need.”
Josh, this will come as a life-altering shock, I’m certain: Not everyone in the gun community shares the same lockstep affection for every type of firearm. We’re “rugged individualists” in that sense. I don’t own an AR-15. They’re fun to shoot, some are remarkably accurate, but they simply don’t interest me enough to invest the money, same as a sports car may be fun to drive, but I own a pickup. My pals who are AR-15 aficionados joke that they love me for not owning one of these rifles, contending that “it leaves one more for us to buy.” You’re welcome!
Now, here’s the major difference between guys like Sugarmann, and guys like me and Libourel. We don’t care if our neighbor owns a house full of AR-15s. We don’t consider it any of our business what kind of gun our neighbor owns. Josh should take a lesson from that.
Sugarmann suggested that Libourel’s remarks just might get him banished from the gun community. What is he smoking?
Libourel is a cornerstone of the gun community, and the gun community knows it. He’s not going to get exiled. Now that he’s been singled out by Sugarmann, he’s probably going to get a medal.
Here is the ultimate truth about the gun-banning idiots and freedom. At heart, gun-banners are just authoritarians trying to boost their own power. They could care less about freedom (other than their own, of course).
I don't know what the guy who wrote this was smoking, but he has a really strange definition of "gained stature" if he really thinks that this is true. Dumbo just gave a very visible example that the hunter types for the most part don't really care about gun rights as long as they get to keep THEIR guns. Likewise Libourel should really watch what he says too.
I just love the irony of being on the VPC website.
Trying to make lemonade out of lemons to claim that Zumbo “gained stature.”
He’s lucky he still has a job in the industry after that fiasco.
Congratulations!
That’s me, circa 1982. No, I am not catching the brass in my mouth.
Yes, he did gain in stature because he publicly apologized, and started working hard to repair the damage that he had done. I give Zumbo a lot of credit for that. He is as staunch a zealot for the Second Amendment as we could ask for, now that his eyes have been opened by the education that he recieved after his thoughtless remark was turned into ammunition against the Second Amendment by the anti-freedom types.
Gun World? What’s their circulation these days? 100-200?
That reminds me, it’s time to read aonther 9mm vs. .38 Special article...
:)
Actually, that would be a pretty cool trick.
Fire, catch, sizzzzzz, spit.
Heck, Clint Eastwood would be proud of that one.
:-)
At the risk of being banned from the gun community forever, I'll take a stab at not being a madman:
The Secret Service is prohibited from using any type of firearm to protect the President not available for legal ownership to the general public at that location.
Because they cross State borders on their job, Federal Law Enforcement Officers are restricted to use of only those firearms that are legal in every state.
ANY given example of microstamping, "smart guns" or similar unproved technology must be tested and accepted by the military, state, AND federal law enforcement agencies for 20 years without modification prior to being mandated for any private citizen. If the technology requires alteration in the course of the 20-year acceptance period (as, say, a result of malfunction or of design change) the 20-year clock starts anew.
There: some reasonable, modest, common-sense gun control laws - that I would support!
Sugarman has been doing this crap for YEARS. And every time he pops up, those of us who understand that the Second Amendment is NOT about hunting and target shooting rise up to slap him down.
Memo to Josh: As a JEW, you need to go back and study the sad, sad lessons of your European ancestors. Oh wait — most of them DIED in Hitler’s camps — AFTER HE DISARMED THEM!
never mind!
DISARMED JEWS AND THE HOLOCAUST:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg9q9sxJFnA
WHY DO THEY WANT OUR GUNS?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j73SsNFgBO4
NOWHERE TO HIDE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvqb_JcAK18
Yet another reasonable, modest, common-sense gun control law that I would wholly support.
More like trying to make lemonade out of dog squeeze.
He’s lucky he still has a job in the industry after that fiasco.
I agree.
Not true. Evidence - when Reagan was shot the SS produced a number of mini-UZIs. These were not at the time and are not available to the general public in Wash DC
>I have yet to meet a gun owner, including the most rabid gun rights extremist (some people use that phrase to describe me!) who opposes keeping guns away from illegal aliens, violent convicted felons
I do! I think that a convicted felon who has served his sentence STILL has a right to self defense. The “illegal alien” thing is a bit different... that’s more like an unconvicted felon than someone who has paid their debt to society.
That said, I believe that Murder and Rape SHOULD be capitally punished.
>That’s me, circa 1982. No, I am not catching the brass in my mouth.
Too bad... it would classify you as the sort of man’s man who could “chew nails”. I mean “chewing brass” is at least on the level of John Wayne and Clint Eastwood... but if you were able to kill men by spitting it that’d put you on the level of Chuck Norris. ;)
Personal damage control. I never paid much attention to him because I never was into the big game hunting that his circle of readers were. I pay NO attention to him now, and I suspect that very few others do either.
thoughtless remark
I am not now nor was I ever convinced that this was a "thoughtless remark" in the sense that it did not reflect his true opinion. I am convinced that it did. It was thoughtless in that the consequences of it landed on him like a ton of bricks, but that is a different matter altogether. He MAY have had a conversion after the fact, but this is not the same as being a true believer in the meaning of the 2nd amendment to start with.
Be Ever Vigilant!
These are proposed laws, not actual ones. My claim is, only a madman would oppose them.
My position: if a guy's too dangerous to own a gun, then he's too dangerous to walk the streets. The question that I would demand of parole board members: "would you feel comfortable having him living next to you and owning guns?"
No law enforcement officer at any level (federal, state, local) may possess or use any firearm or protective device that is not allowed to law-abiding citizens. Issuance of any firearm to any government officer or employee for use against residents of the United States shall be deemed authorization for that type of firearm to be legally sold to and possessed by, any US citizen.
“The only interesting rifle is an accurate rifle.” Townsend Whelen.
I suppose Suggarman would say Welen hated all lever action rifles and they should be banned, wouldn’t he.
Interesting point. When the AK-47 semi auto became importable and America had them running out their ears, Handgun Control Inc put out a statement that they ONLY wanted to control handguns. Long guns would not be affected.
When James Huberty shot up the McDonalds in San Yesedro, California using a pump action shotgun and then a Uzi pistol caliber rifle, Suggarman put out his fright peace on those evil “assault rifles”! HCI then changed it’s charter to call for a ban on semi-auto “assault rifles”.
So, when Suggarman speaks, all the anti-gunners climb on his bandwaggon.
I hve been watching and listening to the lies of the anti-guners since 1961 when Thomas J, Dodd and Emanual Cellar said they “...only want to register handguns. Long guns would not be affected”.
They did call for a ban on the import of 5 shot bolt action army surplus rifles to protect the big firearm industries in their states.
Then I must be mad as a Hatter...
Any officer of the law, who arrests anyone on charges of being in possession of a short-barreled rifle or shotgun or a machine gun, or a silencer, while himself is in actual possession of a short-barreled rifle or shotgun, a machine gun, or silencer, shall be sentenced to a mandatory 20-year prison sentence, without possibility of parole.
Are we looking for converts, or heretics? Zumbo was loudly and publicly spanked for his remarks, and took his medicine like a man. He’s on the right side now, and that’s good enough for me.
Gun control laws simply do not work. None of them do.
If you repealed every one of them today, you wouldn’t be able to tell a difference tomorrow. Criminals would still be criminals, and sometimes use guns to commit crimes. The only thing anyone could do to eliminate gun crimes would be if they could wave a magic wand and make all firearms disappear from the Earth, and that isn’t going to happen. Anything short of that will not, and can not reduce gun related crimes.
Gun control laws are a farce that only harm the ‘good guys’.
bump & bookmark
Who has an FFL? Josh Sugarmann, that’s who.
Not true. Armed government agents can micro-stamp their ammo 'til the cows come home and it won't justify making me buy a firearm that does the same. I support no registration schemes whatever.
Just finished the third in your series. Fabulous. You’re really hitting your stride. “Foreign Enemies and Traitors” reads more like a brief and true chronicle of our times than anything else. The portrayal of the personalities, beliefs and agendas of the Machiavellian, Gramscian Left and their enablers is spot on.
We can only hope that our military will do the right thing and put a stop to Obama’s handleres’ madness.
I understand that The Nuge took Zumbo under his wing and schooled him in the error of his ways. As only The Nuge can...
Bravo Sierra. We can't own those spiffy new Dillon Aero's the SS has mounted in the Presidential motorcades SUV's...
Plus, you are fooling yourself if you think the gun grabbers will wait 20 years to impose new technology or infringements on us. Trigger locks and integral locking mechanism ring a bell?
He didn’t gain stature, he gained notoriety. HUGE difference
What do you mean they don't work? Many of them make life safer for criminals, and increase serfs' reliance upon the government for their 'protection', precisely as they are designed to do.
All free persons have the right to keep and bear arms. The above various people may, for a variety of reasons, be legitimately classed as 'not free'. Putting things in such terms makes clear that the only legitimate way to deny someone's right to keep and bear arms is to regard them as 'not free'. Making Americans 'not free' is the real objective of Schumer et al. and expressing things in terms of free persons and not-free persons makes that clear.
Isn’t Libourel from Belgium? I haven’t heard anything about him for a long time, but I think he used to write about pistols for the gun magazines. He and Zumbo are examples of why the average gun writer isn’t much brighter than the average MSM reporter. No doubt, Libourel will, like Zumbro, make some grovelling apologies and continue his career as an “expert”.
There’s no way that’s true.
The Secret Service carries fully automatic Glock 18’s, which aren’t legal to own, they carry G36’s, which aren’t legal to own and they used to carry UZI’s, which, while you could own them as a private citizen, were pretty hard to get anyway.
Ed
My guess is enough cops would get in hot water long before the 20 years is up to approve them. Although in principle I agree with you.
Aaaaaagh! Those were my PROPOSED common-sense gun control laws! I didn’t say they were the law! !@#%^!!
Is your picture on the SPLC site too, or just VPC?
I have heard that Josh Sugarmann is the only individual that has been granted a Federal Firearms License in DC!
I GET IT!!!
My bad, TOTALLY!
Sorry...I love your proposed laws!
I need to pay more attention to posters and what they’re writing.
See ya’,
Ed
PROPOSED laws... proposed ... proposed.
We have met before, we are on the same side.
{:-) Maybe next time you'll need to make use of /s or something like a "PROPOSED" watermark.
Reminds me of all the calls Rush gets when he does the same sort of thing......
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