While Woodstock Rocked, GIs Died

VFW ^ | August 2009 | Richard K Kolb

[Milhous]

With the 40th anniversary of the '60s cherished rock concert, the so-called "Sixties Generation" remembers fondly those four days in August 1969. Instead, VFW magazine commemorates the 109 Americans killed in Vietnam then.

Newsweek described the as "a youthful, long-haired army, almost as large as the U.S. force in Vietnam." One of the promoters saw what happened near Bethel (nearly 40 miles from Woodstock), N.Y., as an opportunity to "showcase" the drug culture as a "beautiful phenomenon."

The newsmagazine wrote of "wounded hippies" sent to impromptu hospital tents. Some 400,000 of the "nation's affluent white young" attended the "electric pot dream." One sympathetic chronicler recently described them as "a veritable army of hippies and freaks."

Time gushed with admiration for the tribal gathering, declaring: "It may well rank as one of the significant political and sociological events of the age." It deplored the three deaths there - "one from an overdoes of drugs [heroin], and hundreds of youths freaked out on bad trips caused by low-grade LSD." Yet attendees exhibited a "mystical feeling for themselves as a special group," according to the magazine's glowing essay.

The same tribute mentioned the "meaningless war in the jungles of Southeast Asia" and quoted a commentator who said the young need "more opportunities for authentic service."

Meanwhile, 8,429 miles around the other side of the world, 514,000 mostly young Americans were authentically serving the country that had raised them to place society over self.

The casualties they sustained over those four days were genuine, yet none of the elite media outlets were praising their selflessness. ...

[Milhous]

Vietnam Veterans Memorial
Panel 19 West, Line 43 - 64
¨JOHN MICHAEL BOZINSKI¨JAMES DWIGHT ANDERSON¨FRANK CHARLES ARMIJO¨ROGER DAVID BROWN¨DANIEL EDWARD CAREY	ROW 43
¨SANCHEZ ALEJO DEL VALLE¨RICKY WAYNE CHURCH¨CHESTER LEON GOINS¨JOHNNIE GRAHAM Jr¨TYRONE CHATMAN	ROW 44
¨MICHAEL LEE LEWIS¨JACKY EUGENE LANDERS¨RICHARD DOUGLAS LAXSON¨DAVID BURNETT LENTZ¨VINCENT LLOYD SHEPERSKY	ROW 45
¨TERRY KEITH MCDONELL¨RAYMOND LIGONS¨RAYMOND GEORGE MASSE¨EARL JOHN OVERACKER¨JOSEPH WILLIAM MITCHELL	ROW 46
¨PAUL MICHAEL ROBERTS¨PAUL PONCE¨RONNIE LEE ROBERTSON¨ROBERT HAZEN SHIELDS II¨JOHN GERDES SMITH	ROW 47
¨JAMES LARRY SPRINKLE¨WILLIAM HAROLD SOMERVILLE¨WILLIAM KENDALL BLACKBURN¨TOMMY JOE BERRIER¨BOYD LEE WHITTED	ROW 48
¨JOHN MICHAEL DAVIS¨JERRY ALLEN FRAKES¨MARK W EVELAND¨ISRAEL ESPARZA¨GEORGE FABIAN BONNETT	ROW 49
¨WILLIAM STEPHEN HEIDER¨CLIFFORD MICHAEL GIBSON¨LAWRENCE JAMES HUMPHREY¨THOMAS DEWITT JONES¨WILLIAM NAPOLEON LA GRONE	ROW 50
¨RODNEY DWIGHT LITTLE¨CLIFFORD PAUL MCCRARY¨MICHAEL DENNIS MUSE¨ARTURO ALBERTO NAZABAL Jr¨SAMUEL HENRY PIERCE Jr	ROW 51
¨CHARLES LEONARD TROXEL¨RONALD EUGENE SHIPLEY¨EUGENE TUCKER¨TERRY LEE BARR¨JOHN EDWARD WIBBENS	ROW 52
¨KIM MICHAEL DILIBERTO¨DAVID AUSTIN GAY¨CARL CALVIN BATES Jr¨GERALD LEWIS CATON¨CURTIS BOWMAN	ROW 53
¨FRANK A FRANGELLA¨WILLIAM PHILIP GOODING¨PAUL ROBERT HOPKINS¨GREGORY JOSEPH GEE¨CHALMERS CLAUDE HUMPHREYS	ROW 54
¨DONALD JAMES Jr¨JAMES RANDOLPH HURST¨FREDERICK MEZZATESTA¨STEVEN MICHAEL MIOTKE¨GEORGE LOUIS MINER	ROW 55
¨MATTHEW PETERSON¨RONALD WILLIAM PANNO¨VERNON DAVEY SOUTHERLAND¨RONALD DEAN TILLERY¨CLIFFORD SEALS	ROW 56
¨DANIEL ROBERT TURNER¨JAYSON FRED ULRICH¨DOUGLAS WILMER WILKIE¨JAY DENNIS WEBSTER Jr¨SCOTT EDWARD WISE	ROW 57
¨DONALD RICHARD BARRETT¨NEWTON THOMAS BELL Jr¨HOWARD CARLTON ARD¨NORMAN DWANE AUTEN¨WILLIAM JOHN BASSIGNANI	ROW 58
¨ROBERT HUGHES DONAWAY+DANIEL RICHARD DAVIS¨STANLEY HEMAN DICKERSON¨MARIO P DELEON¨HOWARD RUSSELL BRUCKNER	ROW 59
¨ROBERT ALAN FOX¨RODNEY LOUIS ENGEL¨GEORGE ALLEN GUY¨RIGOBERTO GOMEZ-DIAZ¨MARK WELDON GRIGSBY	ROW 60
¨EDWIN CLOYD HOCKENBERRY¨GEARLD ALBERT HENRY¨JAMES G HODGSKIN Jr¨GARY WAYNE HARVEY¨JAMES WALTER KIRKSEY	ROW 61
¨DAVID LEWIS¨DOUGLAS CARROLL MERRILL¨FRANCIS MCLAUGHLIN¨VINCENT TOMMY MASCIALE¨VINCENT JAMES MUSCO	ROW 62
¨JOHN CARL RODGERS¨BENNY BRUCE PARKER¨BOBBY RIDDLE¨EDWIN JOSEPH SMOLAREK Jr¨ROBERT K SPILLNER	ROW 63
¨RICHARD WILLIAM NELSON¨THOMAS LEE STRADTMAN¨DAVID RAMSEY TIBBETTS¨GARY EUGENE YOUNG¨PAUL WARD VANDERBOOM Jr	ROW 64

[Milhous]

ote: VFW magazine will presumably make this print story available on their website at a later date.

[Milhous]

ping

[Frantzie]

Dirty hippies. Never forget Vietnam was JFK/LBJ’s war.

[DonaldC]

I’m not old enough to remember woodstock or much about Vietnam, but I have never understood why the hippie glorification.

[Buckeye McFrog]

...until 2008, when all of the privileged white hippies realized their ultimate dream of taking over the US Government....

[mountainlion]

How did you do that? I was trying to get the “New Deal” out of the magazine to send to my favorite radio station. The Cartoons were old and creepy to me just like the present government. Could you attach the cartoons?

[wbill]

I have never understood why the hippie glorification.

Watch the shows on VH1, etc. Infallibly will be made up of 70s-pop-culture icons talking about how iconic they were. If the Big Lie gets repeated often enough, people start to believe it.

There are plenty of FReepers that were around during that era who saw things from quite a different perspective (I'm not one of them, however...). Rolling Stone isn't hustling to ask them what they think. Occasionally, when we're lucky, they share with us here on FR though.

Maybe a "Where were you at Woodstock, '69?" thread would be in order.

[brushcop]

Dirty hippies. Never forget Vietnam was JFK/LBJ’s war.

Don't worry, I'll NEVER forget, I'll never forget Hanoi Jane posing with her buddies on the AA gun either. After beind discharged I also remember pounding the dashboard screaming at Peter, Paul and Mary singing their sweet sounding anti-everything crap too.

I will always honor my buddy's name 1LT Jack A. Whetsel, Jr. name on that wall too, leading from the front like a good Infantry LT does.

Hippies don't really understand the rage that is still right under the surface with many of us. And seeing the Obama girl with her "peace" symbol t-shirt didn't help my disposition either...

[tc45a]

I have never understood why the hippie glorification.

Simple.

Drugs, Free Sex, No morals. Do you own thing. Try It You Will Like It.

[netmilsmom]

>>but I have never understood why the hippie glorification.<<

Glorification is right.
I was born in 1961. Hippies were only a Halloween costume to us.

I didn’t know a single one. Listening to people today, you would think that every teen and young adult was having sex in the streets and protesting war.

It just wasn’t that way.

[snarks_when_bored]

Woodstock was what all rock concerts were during that time: an excuse to go get stoned stupid in a big crowd of low-achieving headcases.

[Natural Law]

I didn’t go to Woodstock, but did go to Vietnam. Woodstock might have had bigger names, but we had a much better fireworks show!

[AngelesCrestHighway]

Why didn’t they just bring in bulldozers and bury the damn hippies at Woodstock?

[ansel12]

I was a hippie hitchhiker when I heard about Woodstock, I had to get out of the car at the last minute to hitchhike to another state for something or else I would have been at Woodstock. Personally it didn’t really interest me because I felt that by then the hippie movement was dead and Woodstock would be mostly weekend doper type kids from the rich college kid set that were always trying to identify with hippies.

A little more than two years later it was clear that the real fun was over so I finally decided to get the army off my to do list, jump school and army service were better than nothing but they couldn’t equal the fun that was still possible in in the 1965 1968 era for itinerant hippies.

Many of the younger kids at Woodstock were boomers watching the John McCain generation of Rock stars. The boomers were America’s last great warrior generation with 9.4 million veterans, and the Vietnam war was fought by volunteers, not draftees like WWII was.

I wonder what social events that our young conservatives today are attending while their peers are fighting and dying in our war against terror and our military is so desperate for people that they take girls and 42 year old grandmothers?

[DocRock]

Antime someone brings up Woodstock, I bring up General Peter Muhlenberg's famous sermon at Woodstock and I get to expound upon the religious foundations of our founders that bought the freedoms we enjoy.

Here is what the Library of Congress has to say about Gen. Muhlenberg.

"A Fighting Parson

Peter Muhlenberg (1746-1807) was the prime example of a "fighting parson" during the Revolutionary War. The eldest son of the Lutheran patriarch Henry Melchoir Muhlenberg, young Muhlenberg at the conclusion of a sermon in January 1776 to his congregation in Woodstock, Virginia, threw off his clerical robes to reveal the uniform of a Virginia militia officer. Having served with distinction throughout the war, Muhlenberg commanded a brigade that successfully stormed the British lines at Yorktown. He retired from the army in 1783 as a brevetted major general."

Library of Congress Link

Here is a statue of him in the U.S. Capitol



Now that is what I think about when anyone brings up Woodstock.

[ex-snook]

"How did you do that?"

I was wondering that too. The New Deal article was good. It pointed to how the government in order to cut expenses, the National Economy League and Roosevelt pointed at veteran's benefits as the way to cut costs. It's saying when vets are in uniform they are heros but when they are not, they are a cost. Just as likely to happen again.

[KDD]

I’d like to remind you of the humor that accompanied American soldiers in that war as it has all the others. I suspect many of you remember the time honored Murphy’s Laws of Combat:

Don’t look conspicuous...it draws fire

If it’s stupid, but it works, it’s not stupid

If your attack is going really well, it’s an ambush

When you have secured an area, don’t forget to tell the enemy

Friendly fire...isn’t

Anything you do can get you shot, including doing nothing

Never share a foxhole with someone braver than you are

A sucking chest wound is just nature’s way of telling you to slow down

The buddy system is key to your survival...it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at

It’s not the one with your name on it you need to worry about, it’s the one addressed: “To whom it may concern”

Remember, Nine million men and women served in the military during the 13 years of the War and three million of those served in the Vietnam theater. Two thirds of those who saw duty in Vietnam were volunteers and 77 % of those who died were volunteers. Our American citizen-soldier performed with a tenacity and quality that may never be fully appreciated or truly understood. Should anyone think the war was conducted in an incompetent manner should look at the numbers: Hanoi admits to 1.4 million of its soldiers killed on the battlefield compared to our 58,000., and about 250,000 South Vietnamese. And if someone tries to convince you that Vietnam was “a dirty little war” where Air Force and Navy bombs did all the work, you might remind them that this was the most costly war the grunts of the U.S. Marines Corps ever fought...five times as many dead as in WWI, three times as many dead as in Korea, and more total killed and wounded that in all of WWII.

To the Vietnam veterans here today and to all those whose name appears on the Wall, I say you are all heroes. Heroes who faced the issues of this war including your own possible death, and after weighing those concerns against your obligation to your country you decided to serve with honor. In the words of a timeless phrase found on the Confederate Memorial in Arlington Cemetery, “not for fame or reward, not for place or for rank, but in simple obedience to duty, as they understood it.” I ask each of you to treat each other with the dignity and respect you have earned. Reach out and welcome a fellow Vietnam Veteran home. God bless each of you, and may God continue to bless this America we love and serve.

http://www.ndqsa.com/memspeech.html

[Kozak]

Damn Dirty Hippies!

[ConservativeMan55]

bttt

[Milhous]

I manually typed in the story one character at a time and found a website with all of the names from "the Wall." (Over the years FR motivated me to learn basic HTML.) FR automatically limited my excerpt to under 300 words.

VFW's "New Deal" story requires scanning the cartoons to an image server. You need to make sure that fair use law provides for such a scenario.

[panthermom]

I saw a clip of the Woodstock documentary the other day and I was repulsed by it.

[Milhous]

Amen! Thanks for sharing a most excellent memory to associate with the word Woodstock. :)

[NRA1995]

I saw a clip of the Woodstock documentary the other day and I was repulsed by it.

I just found most of the documentary very laughable. Thousands of self-important kids at an outdoor concert where it poured down rain, people were dancing & rolling in their own poop and mud, food ran out and the idiots in charge looking at the scene and remarking that this was how we should all live. Many of the kids they interviewed were so stoned that they couldn't say anything coherent. The music? Most bands of that period were crappy when performing live; they should have stayed in the recording studio. The notable exceptions were Ten Years After and Santana. Overall, it's a film to make you laugh at how seriously kids took themselves back then.

[onedoug]

‘Liked some of the music, but I’d rather have been in Vietnam.

Thanks for your service.

Welcome Home!

[McGruff]

I lived in Upstate NY and just graduated high school at the time of Woodstock. I never heard of it till it was over. From what I’ve learned since it was a primarily a bunch of NY City hippies fouling up the nice scenery of Upstate NY. Luckily they went back to NYC or it could have ended up like a scene from Deliverance.

[Natural Law]

"I suspect many of you remember the time honored Murphy’s Laws of Combat:"

The one that they failed to mention to us was that "if you are close enough to shoot them they are close enough to shoot you". My favorite is; "if you see someone running like hell, don't ask, just follow him.

[crazydad]

Freaking hippies.. Maybe Saddam had it right with the Wood chipper.. Sorry this just pisses me off..

[CholeraJoe]

I was at USAF ROTC Basic training in Florida. 90 degrees, 90% humidity, no air conditioning.

[Stoat]

Crosslinked:

VFW Woodstock Wasn't the Only Thing Happening 40 Years Ago

[Titan Magroyne]

And:

Never forget that your weapons were made by the lowest bidder.

Tracers work both ways.

[Beloved Levinite]

GOD BLESS THEM ALL...

[Beloved Levinite]

"I have never understood why the hippie glorification."

Tune In, Turn On, Drop Out... And let the Marxists, Islamofascists & whatever else roll over us. That about covers it.

[dragnet2]

The boomers were America’s last great warrior generation with 9.4 million veterans, and the Vietnam war was fought by volunteers, not draftees like WWII was.

About 18,000 of those that gave their lives fighting in Vietnam were drafted.

[ansel12]

Vietnam was very low for Marine and Army draftees compared to wars like WWII. That is why Vietnam was a volunteer war and WWII was a draftee war.

A report by the national VFW indicated that during the period from Sept. 5, 1917 to Nov. 11, 1918, 2,810,296 American men were inducted into the U.S. Army. They constituted 72 percent of the entire service. Draftees supplied more than 50 percent of the soldiers of the American Expeditionary Force in France.

Again, in World War II, the national conscription from November 1940 to October 1946 had 10,220,104 men called into military service. That number amounted to 63 percent of our World War II military. In our Army, 92 percent were draftees. The Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard had a total of 1,730,194 draftees with 16,000 in the Marines.

During the draft for Korean War military, August 1950 through July 1953, 1,569,141 men were called into military service. Draftees made up 30 percent of the Korean War servicemen. From August 1951 to October 1952, 83,858 Marines were drafted. In 1952, 12,220 Marines entered military service via the Selective Service system. By December 1952, 63 percent of soldiers serving in Korea were draftees. In 1953, 59 percent of the Army enlisted men were draftees.

During the Cold War years (1954-1964) the Selective Service was again drafting men into military service. During that period 1,443,223 men were drafted, representing 41 percent of the Army.

The Vietnam War, 1965-1973, produced 1,728,344 men being drafted into military service. Thirty-nine percent of the soldiers in Vietnam were drafted at a time when 27 percent of the Army as a whole was draftee. The national VFW reported 648,500 draftees (25 percent of the total) were among the 2.6 million Americans who were actually stationed in Vietnam. Draftee hostile deaths totaled 15,458, or 32 percent of all American combat fatalities.”

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78191

[dragnet2]

The boomers were America’s last great warrior generation with 9.4 million veterans, and the Vietnam war was fought by volunteers, not draftees like WWII was.

About 18,000 of those that gave their lives fighting in Vietnam were drafted.

Vietnam was very low for Marine and Army draftees compared to wars like WWII. That is why Vietnam was a volunteer war and WWII was a draftee war.

Are you stoopid? No one is comparing. I only responded to your ignorant comment.

What part of 18,000 draftee combat dead Vietnam era veterans don't you get? Your comments seem attempt to minimize their deaths

Don't go there with me.

[ansel12]

I’m not going anywhere with you fool, I’m well aware that just over 15,000 draftees died in Vietnam but that doesn’t change the fact that Vietnam was primarily fought by volunteers while WWII was primarily fought by draftees.

Most people have that fact backwards and they think that the Vietnam era army was full of draftees, the reality is that it wasn’t while the WWII army was 93% draftee.

[dragnet2]

and the Vietnam war was fought by volunteers, not draftees like WWII was.

that doesn’t change the fact that Vietnam was primarily fought by volunteers

You are now clearly contradicting yourself, which in this case is a good thing.

That is the reason someone had to point out to you draftees accounted for over 30 percent, or almost 18,000 combat deaths in Vietnam.

Those died fighting in Vietnam were clearly both, volunteers and draftees. Get it straight

[dragnet2]

That is why Vietnam was a volunteer war

Only a fool, or someone that doesn't know what they're talking about would make this statement, like you did here.

[ansel12]

Vietnam was a war fought by volunteers, compared to WWII that was fought by draftees. This flies in the face of perhaps the biggest Vietnam War myth.

Now my father was a volunteer that served from 1939 to 1945, do you really think that I mean that 100% of our WWII military was draftees? of course not.

I myself served in the army during the Vietnam war, do you really think that I mean that 100% of my army was volunteers? of course not.

If you were drafted get over it.

[Tribune7]

Woodstock took up the entire front page of our local rag today. I wanted to throw up.

God bless those who gave all for us.

[Tribune7]

but I have never understood why the hippie glorification.

Those who succeeded in media and entertainment were hippies. They have to justify what they did when they were young, which would be generally unjustifiable if looked at objectively.

[dragnet2]

First you say this:

and the Vietnam war was fought by volunteers, not draftees like WWII was.

Now you say this:

Vietnam was a war fought by volunteers, compared to WWII that was fought by draftees

Words mean things.

Nearly 18,000 of those drafted died in combat in Vietnam. Stop trying to minimize their sacrifices.

do you really think that I mean that 100% of my army was volunteers?

That is exactly what you said, right here:

and the Vietnam war was fought by volunteers, not draftees like WWII was

[ansel12]

Well it sure got you worked up.

The fact is that Vietnam was a volunteer war and WWII was a draftee war.

[dragnet2]

The fact is that Vietnam was a volunteer war

If they could speak, nearly 18,000 dead combat draftees would tell ya you're FOS.

Their call to duty and sacrifice was honorable. You're comments are not.

[astyanax]

"It's saying when vets are in uniform they are heros but when they are not, they are a cost."
God and the Soldier, we adore,
In time of danger, not before.
The danger passed and all things righted,
God is forgotten and the Soldier slighted.
-Rudyard Kipling

[ansel12]

As I keep saying, yes there were draftees in the Vietnam Army, about 25 or 27% which makes it a volunteer army when compared to the Army of WWII which was 93% draftee, which makes it a draftee army.

As you are out and about today ask people which war was fought by patriotic volunteers and which war was fought by disgruntled draftees, offer WWII and Vietnam as the choices and see what people give as answers.

[dragnet2]

Vietnam was a volunteer war

Draftees accounted for over 30 percent, or almost 18,000 combat deaths in Vietnam.

Their call to duty and sacrifice was honorable. Your comments are not.

[ansel12]

What is your deal, you have refused to answer if you were a draftee, were you?

[ansel12]

Another myth about Vietnam besides the one that it was fought by draftees, is that the Guard and Reserves did not participate and that is never challenged by anyone, yet the truth is that they lost over 6,000 men.