The Day I Asked a Question and Got The MOTHER of All Answers

7/28/2009 | Vanity

[MissTickly]

This is a 100% TRUE story about a question I posed to Janice Okubo and the Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics...

..and this just happened YESTERDAY. Coincidence?

That's why I call YESTERDAY:

The Day I Asked a Question and Got The MOTHER of All Answers

1) An Original Birth Record is what most people have 2) An Amended Original Birth Record is the exact same thing except it’s issued to adoptees–their original is then sealed and only opened on court order. Legally, it’s treated and accepted as an EQUAL to an Original Birth Certificate.

blah blah blah–you all are familiar, I know.

I could never have imagined that the one day I bother to email Janice Okubo and ask a question, I get an answer. I get the swift and courteous revelation that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen, born in Hawaii all along. Notice we still don’t get to see the birth record, though. You could call it all wishful thinking but I like to think I played a part. Consider that months of bogging-down our legal system never justified Obama’s sudden rush to open up. And he knew it was THAT easy to just have them put out a statement all along, YET he watched people who just wanted to know endure needless ridicule and race-baiting and he watched his own supporters harden and grow angry at what they say they perceive as RACISM. And that’s just a couple of many, many, needless things we could have avoided.

What made them suddenly open up last night?

Let me explain. Obama is hiding something. And now that the Natural Born Citizen issue is debunked for many, IMAGINE how the Obots will receive Soetoro/Indonesian anglers like me, that go around talkin bout ‘amended certificates’.

To summarize:

I feel pretty certain, that yesterday afternoon, I asked Janice Okubo a question that the Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics have the authority to answer. Are they compelled to answer it, too?

I realize it’s awkward to start with ‘Is’ but I borrowed the wording from their fall press release and wanted to maintain the integrity of the language they used–and I let Okubo know that was for a reason. This is what I asked her:

“Is the Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, able to state they have verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has President Barack Obama’s AMENDED original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures?”

This is what they said about his Original in October:

““Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. ”

I didn’t ask them ‘IF ‘they had an AMENDED certificate on record, I asked a question that WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN they have the authority to answer based on their previous statement about the Original Certificates–A legal twin to Amended Certificates. And the answer to my question is pretty meaningful when you consider it’s an Amended certificate that, I am referring to.

Furthermore, no one had to ATTEST to the existence of the ORIGINAL birth certificate in order for Fukino, et al. to have the AUTHORITY to issue their statement publicly. ‘Statute’ dictates she has the authority–hence, she has the “statutory authority” and she clearly says so.

THEREFORE, since they are legal equals: No one is obliged to offer any proof at all of an amended certificate’s existence when they ask this exact question:

“Is the Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, able to state they have verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has President Barack Obama’s AMENDED original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures?”

Guess what I figured out? I don’t think adoptees are treated any differently than the rest of us in that respect.

The door slammed shut on me when I presented my question this way. The sky opened and Obama was born, Natural Born. I swear to God, this all happened to ME last night.

I had that press release arrive in my mailbox at 11:47 last night straight from Janice Okubo herself and I have the emails to prove it. When I went to the web to look for it in disbelief—there was not once single reference I found, using the full text to search google.

Could I have gotten it BEFORE FactCheck.org? Imagine.

It’s really so simple, they given us EVERY clue as to how to PHRASE the question. And I think they have the authority to answer. How do we compel them?

Needless to say, my conversation with lovely, Janice Okuba is ongoing.=)

Or maybe this is all wishful thinking.

[MissTickly]

I had to go vanity with this. I promise you it happened just as I recall--because it just yesterday.

[Parley Baer]

Obviously someone is hiding something. It would be so easy to put this issue to rest.

[concerned about politics]

1) An Original Birth Record is what most people have 2) An Amended Original Birth Record is the exact same thing except it’s issued to adoptees–their original is then sealed and only opened on court order. Legally, it’s treated and accepted as an EQUAL to an Original Birth Certificate.

So what if they have proof he was born. I'm sure someone has proof Fidel Castro was born, somewhere, too. Everyone alive today was born and can prove it by standing in front of you. That's not the issue.

Natural born citizenship is the issue. What citizenship is listed on the original birth certificate? What citizenship is documented? That's why the voters need to see the original. Get it now ??

Man, the left sure is going out of it's way to parse it's words and avoid answering questions. ""IS" Oboma a citizen or "IS" he not?

[Genoa]

Miss Tickly, in a sentence or two, would you please summarize what you are saying this proves? You lost me.

[concerned about politics]

Miss Tickly, in a sentence or two, would you please summarize what you are saying this proves? You lost me.

Hawaii said Oboma was born. They have an adoption certificate that says he was really, really born. They made it from the original that also said he was born. That's why he's here today.

Now you know. Obomas mother really did give birth. The problem is they refused to say where.

[trumandogz]

I feel pretty certain, that yesterday afternoon, I asked Janice Okubo a question...

A very interesting use of the words "pretty" and "certain."

[Genoa]

You’re not Miss Tickly!

[nikos1121]

I think she’s trying to say, that maybe, just maybe the little people in Hawaii who are guarding the BC, may know something, and will tell us, if we ask it in the right way.

This whole thing, I’ve watched for over one year now. I along with a few others here started this when we independently saw that two hospitals were listed as a place of birth... etc etc.

The man has an army of attorneys keeping us from seeing his education and birth records. No other president in my life time would act this way. All presidents of this country from either party have been totally transparent and proud of thier past.

I’m a birther and proud of it.

[Genoa]

I want Miss Tickly. What have you done with her?

[nikos1121]

She speaks with an interesting accent. Is she Hawaiian?

[MissTickly]

I’ll try. But please read what I wrote again, too.

How Hawaii statute affects the handling of an Original Birth is no different than how they handle an Amended one.

If they have the authority to tell me Obama’s original BC is on file in accordance to law, they can say the same/or not about an Amended one. No one has to prove one exists—they have the “statutory authority” to say so.

Adoptees are treated just the same as someone who was not adopted in terms of vital record statute.

If Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, they have that information AND the authority to tell us an AMENDED certificate is on file in accordance to the law.

Does that help at all?

[nikos1121]

SHe’s flown the coop.

[concerned about politics]

You’re not Miss Tickly!

Well excuuuuuuse me. All they said was they can prove he was born. They can even prove twice that he was born. Who cares? I can prove he was born by pointing at his picture on TV!

[nikos1121]

Okay, so you asked if they have an “amended” BC? And she said yes?

[Genoa]

Ahhh! So you’re saying his BC is one that states Lolo is his father (adoptive). And this demonstrates loss of citizenship? Is that it?

[MissTickly]

She said at first, here’s the press release from FALL 2008.

So I asked again and refined my question.

She replied with the Press Release stating he is a natural born citizen, born in Hawaii. And excuse me if that FLOORED me. She also noted they never said anything about an amended certificate.

I told her that I realize that, but can you tell me if you have it record in accordance with the law anyway.

I’ve not heard back but I just wrote her again a hour ago.

“Okay, so you asked if they have an “amended” BC? And she said yes?”

[Genoa]

So you say she was being evasive by not answering about “amended” and replying about “natural-born” instead?

[wintertime]

I read through this once. I will need to do it again. It is a very convoluted web to untangle, indeed!

[hoosiermama]

Interesting idea....?

THEREFORE, since they are legal equals: No one is obliged to offer any proof at all of an amended certificate’s existence when they ask this exact question:

“Is the Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, able to state they have verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has President Barack Obama’s AMENDED original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures?”

[353FMG]

>It would be so easy to put this issue to rest.<

.
I don’t know how often I have heard this argument in the past three months. They’re not going to put it to rest, because they can’t afford to do so. They’d rather destroy this country than divulge the truth, because the truth may be so nationally and internationally embarrassing that they’d rather keep it from the public. Other items than a mere BC may be involved.

[wintertime]

What authority does any bureaucrat have to declare someone “natural born”? If Obama’s father was a British citizen, with this alone, his natural born status is in question.

Another is a foreign adoption. Yes, adoption would not jeopardize his citizenship, but it most certainly would mean that he could no longer be considered natural born.

[MissTickly]

It all goes back to the AP photo of his school records from me. If lolo adopted him, not only did lie about it—it calls into question all his effort to distance himself his Muslim Indonesian roots. He says he has compassion for them but doesn’t want anyone to know his school record shows he was enrolled as a muslim?

What is this?

And some argue he might not be eligible due to the citizenship issue, too. I don’t pretend to study constitutional law—just vital record statute.

It could mean he ineligible or it could mean he’s unelectable.

I think he’s unelectable either way because look what we all endured trying to get the NBC issue settled and he could have just done this but he didn’t care about what was going on left or right.

[wintertime]

“natural-born” instead?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

No bureaucrat has the authority to anoint someone as being “natural born”.

[NRA2BFree]

There is NO birth certificate. Period. End of story. The antichrist didn’t get one. ;)

[MissTickly]

“So you say she was being evasive by not answering about “amended” and replying about “natural-born” instead?”

I am saying Obama surely authorized the release of the information.

I think I got too close to finding out the truth and so he DEBUNKED all the “born in kenya” birthers by releasing the NBC information so that anyone left thinking about this issue would be MORE ridiculed and race-baited than ever before.

Sounds plausible to me.

and geez you guys are kinda mean. Sorry i speak big word.

[rolling_stone]

Updated at 2:57 p.m., Monday, July 27, 2009 (hawaii time)

Obama Hawaii born, insist Isle officials

just send them an open records request.they did change the wording to vital records from birth certificate...maybe they are getting nervous?

http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf

For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93 STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO

“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. “No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”

For Immediate Release: July 27, 2009 09-063 STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D.

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

I thinl she is trying to say he was born in hawaii and not adopted to become a citizen in response to your question...(of course there may be a later adoption by Sotereo)

[353FMG]

>The man has an army of attorneys keeping us from seeing his education and birth records.<

.
Does that also mean that these same lawyers are allowed to keep the truth from the public when it may be a matter of national security? Is that what our judicial system allows them to do? If that’s the case, why even have a legal system?

[concerned about politics]

Politicians suck. They’re avoiding the questions about his original birth records like they’re some kind of blasphemy.

[concerned about politics]

Politicians suck. They’re avoiding the questions about his original birth records like they’re some kind of blasphemy.

[MissTickly]

Hey I am not going to argue constitutional law with you, I am no good.

For me, I immediately think: could he still have Indonesian citizenship? If so, is that okay? I don’t know.

Lots of people think it creates an eligibility problem—I HOPE they are right.

[MissTickly]

“I read through this once. I will need to do it again. It is a very convoluted web to untangle, indeed!”

That’s because I am a Birther, I never said I was a writer.=)

Oh well, I even tried to make it light.

[wintertime]

Hey I am not going to argue constitutional law with you, I am no good.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This bureaucrat is no more qualified than you or I to declare Obama a “natural born” citizen. ( eyeroll) Geeze! Who does this woman think she is?

[MissTickly]

I think the reaction we got last night is a testament to how interesting it is.

“Interesting idea....?

THEREFORE, since they are legal equals: No one is obliged to offer any proof at all of an amended certificate’s existence when they ask this exact question:

“Is the Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, able to state they have verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has President Barack Obama’s AMENDED original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures?” “

[wintertime]

Actually, I think you have done a rather good job of writing about it. It is Obama who is deliberately making himself unnecessarily convoluted.

[MissTickly]

“Ahhh! So you’re saying his BC is one that states Lolo is his father (adoptive). And this demonstrates loss of citizenship? Is that it?”

YEP, that’s just what I am saying. And the thing is, if a an amended record is on file in accordance to the law—we don’t even need to know what’s on it.

You wouldn’t have one if you weren’t adopted.

[MissTickly]

Don’t think this didn’t strike me immediately when I read it.

” just send them an open records request.they did change the wording to vital records from birth certificate...maybe they are getting nervous?”

[MissTickly]

Yes, yes, yes. And I don’t think they are the enemy either. They are dropping clues—maybe on purpose.

“I think she’s trying to say, that maybe, just maybe the little people in Hawaii who are guarding the BC, may know something, and will tell us, if we ask it in the right way.”

[BP2]

Yes, they state of Hawaii offices have generated "canned" answers because they know they're getting busted on their real answers.

There's only a handful of people who work in the DHHL office. When I conversed with Rhonda Funn, DHHL Information and Community Relations Office, when the CNN story broke, she stated (and I quote): "Our requirements have not changed. We've always accepted both certificates as proof of birth. The only difference between the two is that the original Certificate of Live Birth contains more information."

No offense -- but DUH. They might also "accept" a ham sandwich, but that doesn't prove that your parents were of Hawaiian decent, nor your Hawaiian "blood quantum". Just like the DHHL had on their website from 2001 to June 2009 states: "Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

IF you submit a "Certification of Live Birth", the DHHL will NOT accept it on FACE VALUE to grant you land, especially if you have a non-Hawaiian name of Smith, Jones, or Obama. The "Certification of Live Birth" only shows "City, Town or Location of Birth".

The DHHL will ask for additional information if you had them a "Certification of Live Birth". And if you DON'T have it, they will turn to the state of Hawaii's own archived records (especially "original birth certificates") to determine "blood quantum" -- just like it says here in the DHHL pamphlet:

[concerned about politics]

“I think she’s trying to say, that maybe, just maybe the little people in Hawaii who are guarding the BC, may know something, and will tell us, if we ask it in the right way.”

It has to be a loop hole question in the adoption laws, right?

[MissTickly]

The handling of an adopted child’s Amended birth certificate is no different than how an Original Birth certificate is handled.

That’s why, if they can tell us they have his original birth certificate on file in accordance to the law (which is sealing it BTW if he has an amended one) they can tell us he has an amended one on file according by their own authority too.

“I think she’s trying to say, that maybe, just maybe the little people in Hawaii who are guarding the BC, may know something, and will tell us, if we ask it in the right way.”

[LucyT]

THEREFORE, since they are legal equals: No one is obliged to offer any proof at all of an amended certificate’s existence when they ask this exact question:

“Is the Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, able to state they have verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has President Barack Obama’s AMENDED original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures?”

Thanks, hoosiermama; interesting idea, indeed.

[BP2]

One must understand the complexities of Hawaii's birth certificate history and laws to grasp the following (sorry if it seems confusing -- it IS confusing):

To have a FULL accounting, the "birth certificate" is NOT enough. The ENTIRE "birth record" on file with the Secretary of Health Vital Statistics Office, as well as any archived files with the former "Secretary of Hawaii" (as was the procedure under the Organic Act of 1900), should be examined to determine if a “Late Birth Certificate” with modifications, or a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” is present or has been archived away from the "vault copy."

It seems like Hawaii makes a clear distinction between the short-form, Certification of Live Birth, and the "longer, but not long form," Certificate of Live Birth from what they call a "standard birth certificate," which is Hawaii's long-form, Certificate of Live Birth, or the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, or any complete, original Birth Certificate, or Certificate of Birth (same thing) issued BY ANOTHER STATE OR COUNTRY at the time of birth, signed by the attending doctor, parent(s), and so on.

From my understanding of the Law, there is a big difference between having a "standard birth certificate" on record AND a late registration, Certificate of Live Birth, which is substituted (but is not a substitute) for a nonexistent "standard birth certificate."

According to Vital Records:

A request to amend a Certificate of Live Birth will, however, be considered to be and treated as an application with the Department of Health for registration of a late certificate of birth in current use, unless a standard birth certificate for that person already exists in the vital records of the Department of Health.

If there is a standard birth certificate on record, and the approval is given to amend it with an application for a new Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, THEN the original, standard birth certificate is put in an envelope and sealed, and the existing birth record is updated -- but, it is definitely NOT called an original birth certificate.

If there is NO standard birth certificate on record, and the approval is given to accept a new Certificate of Live Birth, THEN that COB becomes a late birth registration, and the information on it is used to create a new birth record.

BUT, Hawaii DOES NOT label that birth record, a "Standard birth record," because it was created with a late birth, COB.

What if the request for amending the standard birth record is denied? Then the standard birth record remains in force.

What if the request for creating a late birth COB is denied? Then there will be no birth records of any kind.

Again, here are the rules:

If there is no standard birth certificate on file, an applicant is required to submit documentary evidence of the birth facts necessary to support of the registration of the late certificate of birth. If approved, the late birth certificate will be registered in place of the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, which must then be surrendered to the Department of Health.

[concerned about politics]

Adoptions are sometimes listed in the news papers, too. I wonder.....If it was listed, are there details ?

[concerned about politics]

As far as Obomas birth being printed in the news paper....

The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, for example, according to its website, reprints birth information it receives from Hawaii's Department of Health (D).

[concerned about politics]

As far as Obomas birth being printed in the news paper....

The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, for example, according to its website, reprints birth information it receives from Hawaii's Department of Health (D).

[Vendome]

Is this a dream sequence?

Is Jim Thompson shot in the final episode and then reappears the next season... in the shower?

[Vendome]

No, no, no! Not those pesky facts again! What’s wrong with you?

/s/s/s

[concerned about politics]

Something else....

Barack Obama stated that he was a few months old when the Bay of Pigs invasion happened. The Bay of Pigs invasion took place on April 1961. Obama claims to have been born on Aug 4th 1961, four months after the event. What if in reality Obama was born prior to April 1961?

[Danae]

I get it.

If he has an AMENDED certificate, it is proof he was adopted, and THAT calls into question his immigration status because of issues of Dual Citizenship!

WOW

man, and I though I was the only one dealing with the State of Hawaii Vital Statistics in trying to figure out a discrepancy!

If he has an AMENDED Certificate, It’s GAME ON!

You may have figured out the right question to ask, and it was sitting there right in front of the world all along.

Not, to get the answer....

[Danae]

I get it.

If he has an AMENDED certificate, it is proof he was adopted, and THAT calls into question his immigration status because of issues of Dual Citizenship!

WOW

man, and I though I was the only one dealing with the State of Hawaii Vital Statistics in trying to figure out a discrepancy!

If he has an AMENDED Certificate, It’s GAME ON!

You may have figured out the right question to ask, and it was sitting there right in front of the world all along.

Now, to get the answer....