Obama = Outdated & Obsolete
Posted on 07/21/2009 9:50:15 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty
Senate Votes to Pull F-22 Funding
Just broke live on Fox
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
These means the F-22 line will close, with no replacements or potentially highly profitable exports.
I'm sure the Chinese and Russians are happy though!
US will buy P-51’s to defend America!
The chicoms and Ruskies are elated to have such a limp d*icked commie fellow traveler pretending to be US president.
They will probably be let go.
To those young bucks.
How is that hope and change workin' for ya....
More people layed off and more plant closings and less defense. Great! This idiot is out to destroy this country. What else was in the bill that politicians didn’t like that made them vote against it?
I think it means the F22 line will not continue as long as we hoped. The didn’t cancel the program, they just reduced the number of A/C more than they had already reduced it.
So, raising taxes, borrowing from China, cutting Medicare, encouraging Seniors to give up and die, and rationing my health care, is more important than protecting our Country???
Read my tagline zero, you SOB.
0bama on TV now: “Our budget is a zero-sum game.”
I have never seen such a bald-faced liar. How anyone can still believe in this guy is beyond me.
2010 and 2012 are looking better and better.
(BTW this decision means 24,000 lost jobs in Georgia alone.)
Just for the record and so that we know,
“The vote was marked by a cross-party flow. John McCain (R-Ariz.) allied himself with President Barack Obama, who promised to veto the defense spending bill the extra F-22 spending were not removed.”
Nah, too patriotic and made in the US, more probable...used up commie third world MIG15s.
What was the code name for the MiG-15? The P-51 was Mustang.
I am almost convinced that all people will lose their jobs and then everyone will be working for the govt.! We’ll be able to stay in our homes, even if payment cannot be made, but the govt. will give us jobs.
We can’t have an advantage, it wouldn’t be FAIR.( Liberal feel good attitude )
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1600141/posts
Chinese will and are moving to be the next world power very quickly. USA is becoming France. When we see those Chinese planes flying over US territory and Washington is filled with Chinese Politicians we will wonder what happened.
Obama = Outdated & Obsolete
187 F-22's, 20- B-2's and 100 B-1B's. Does anyone else not see anything wrong with this picture>
These are tremendous force multipliers for us...we need many more to ensure our absolute dominance...but we have a marxist in the White House, abetted by more of the same in congress, who are not interested in us dominating anything.
To the contrary, they appear hell bent on us being dominated at home and abroad. They thus fail to fulfill the very most basic function of government.
A PETITION FOR CONSTITUTIONAL RESTORATION
THE AUDACITY OF TRUTH ABOUT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA
A 4TH OF JULY TEA PARTY SPEECH
...and on the lighter side, take your mind off the Obamanation for a few minutes and enjoy some beautiful Western US scenery slideshows.
“The vote was marked by a cross-party flow. John McCain (R-Ariz.) allied himself with President Barack Obama, who promised to veto the defense spending bill the extra F-22 spending were not removed.”
Yes, the one saving grace in the current situation is that McCain wasn’t elected. At least the Dems will flame out so totally it should be at least twenty years of sane rule after we get rid of 0bama.
I’ve steadily lost respect for McCain ever since the “We have nothing to fear from a 0bama Presidency” comment. Fool.
They're awfully quite these days.
I emailed Mccain, I know a waste of time but damn it this is one of the dumbest decisions ever made by this country.
But don’t call them antiAmerican... < /sarc >
Democrats are doing everything at light speed to ruin this nation. Take a cue Republicans..this is how you do it when you have all 3 houses like you squandered by kissing ass and being PC.
It is possible that we have something in the Black projects that makes the 22 obsolete, but I’m not counting on it. They kept the stealth fighter a secret for a long time until we used it. It may be a bait and switch, we’ll see.
You have that right on McCain! I am so glad that he didn’t get elected for the reasons you mentioned.
I don’t think 7 more Raptors will make any difference. It’s a pork barrel project...I think there are better systems out there...
I mean have they ever flown this thing in combat?
Could look like the victory of the UAVs over live piloting, but probably is just another step toward unilateral disarmament by the Party of Treason.
Trying to find a source, The amount of people freed by the US Military.
7/20/09 | vanity
Posted on 07/20/2009 7:49:37 PM PDT by tricky_k_1972
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2297157/posts
Wrong, wrong, wrong! The JSF, which has more multi-role capability, is being ordered for US forces and allies. It's been reported in many news sources recently, but nobody seems to notice. Look it up for yourself. An example.
Gates is also ramping up orders for Lockheed's F-35 joint strike fighter. Plans are now to manufacture 2,443 of the jets, he announced.
These orders will go through 2020 from Lockheed/Martin.....the same folks who brought you the F-22.
Put the House and Senate on the same medical plan as they are proposing for the citizenry. Anything less is an insult to the taxpayers.
Here’s another take on this:
F-22 can’t fly, won’t die
Buzz up!By Ralph Peters Monday, July 20, 2009
With a price tag above $350 million per plane, the F-22 fighter jet requires at least 30 hours of maintenance for every hour it flies. That number could be as high as 60 hours.
That’s worse than the MG I had back in college.
Pilots call high-maintenance aircraft “hangar queens.” Well, the F-22’s a hangar empress. After three expensive decades in development, the plane meets fewer than one-third of its specified requirements.
The weapons don’t work. The stealth coating can’t withstand rain or blowing sand. Even the cockpit canopy has failed repeatedly. On any given day, barely 50 percent of the aircraft already deployed are in shape to fly.
And that’s in peacetime, under ideal maintenance conditions. Imagine if this dodo bird had to go to war. An enemy could flood the skies with less capable but cheaper aircraft while the F-22 was in therapy. And what would readiness rates be like after months of combat?
Anyway, an enemy wouldn’t have to down a single F-22 to defeat it. Just strike the high-tech maintenance sites and it’s game over. The F-22 ain’t going to operate off a dirt strip with a repair tent.
And it gets worse. Cynically, Lockheed Martin distributed the F-22 workload to nearly every state, employing underqualified subcontractors to create local financial stakes in the program. Great politics — but the result has been a quality collapse.
So you, the taxpayer, get a $350 million aircraft that doesn’t work.
Lockheed Martin’s sales pitch evolved over the years: First, it was “air dominance.” Then the F-22 was going to win the War on Terror with a magical ground-attack capability.
But the F-22 hasn’t flown a single combat mission. It can’t do ground-attack runs and its electronics don’t work in “high-emissions environments,” such as anyplace our military operates.
Last year, Lockheed Martin started pitching the jobs issue. Well, for the price of one F-22, we could pay full unemployment to any displaced workers for eternity.
All those full-page ads in The New York Times and the TV commercials in which Lockheed Martin waves the flag? The costs are deducted as business expenses from the taxes Lockheed pays. Essentially, you give the contractor a huge rebate to persuade you to pay for a gilded piece of junk that doesn’t work. Talk about morally scummy.
Secretary of Defense Robert Gates wants to kill the F-22 program. Joint Chiefs Chairman Mike Mullen wants to kill it. The secretary of the Air Force and the Air Force chief of staff both want it dead. Sen. John McCain — who knows something about air combat — is crusading to stop this massive boondoggle.
Even President Obama has threatened to veto any Defense appropriations bill that funds additional F-22s above the 187 already programmed.
But guess who’s suddenly discovered the importance of a strong national defense? Congressional Democrats, led by the naval hero of Chappaquiddick, Sen. Ted Kennedy. Guess which state enjoys especially lucrative F-22 subcontracts?
This is a disgrace. Sure, a mere $350 million each for fighters that don’t work doesn’t sound like much these days — hardly enough for a Starbucks tip on Capitol Hill.
And yes, our troops deserve the best. But the F-22 isn’t the best, just the most expensive. The fundamental requirements for weapons should be that they work and fill a need. The F-22 flunks on both counts. This program is sheer theft.
If we wanted to clean up corruption in defense contracting, we should start with a law prohibiting members of Congress from voting on any appropriation affecting their home districts. Won’t happen, of course; pork’s far too tasty.
For over a decade, I’ve warned in print that the F-22 was a scam. But whether the pen is mightier than the sword, it ain’t mightier than the pork barrel.
Ralph Peters is a New York Post columnist and Fox News’ analyst.
Not that anyone I know of in the military/industrial sides know anything about that would be like the Stealth that was black box.
Let this be a lesson to any Senator who dares defy the great 0bambi. Your state will be singled out and we will crush any industry that might give money to your campaign.
Anyway, national security doesn’t sound like anything found in community organizing.
Obama himself is a zero-sum game. He is truly an arrogant SOB! He needs his butt kicked and his nose knocked out of joint a few times to truly get the meaning of what many people think of him. Maybe then he would get his nose out of the air as if someone elected him to be KING.
Looks like there is something else on the drawing board.
A few years back they came out with an updated test version of the P-51 with a turboprop for COIN operations.
You would have me except, McCain is in favor of the cut. That makes it a political move to punish a certain Senator for questioning 0bambi. The program certainly doesn’t look any worse than SCHIP or studying cow flatulence. We might even be able to export some of these pigs to other countries.
Just because someone has an engineering degree does not mean that they think logically.
I once thought it did, but a 50+ year old leftie engineer on my floor disabused me of the notion. ‘Pod.
we’ll see in 5-10 years what the f22 legacy turns out to be.
from what I hear it takes out anything that flies in mock air combat. in war, victory is everything.
“I don’t think 7 more Raptors will make any difference. It’s a pork barrel project...I think there are better systems out there...
I mean have they ever flown this thing in combat?”
The F-15 is something like 105-0 in combat engagements. When flying against the F-22 in exercises, the score is usually something like 1 F-22 taking out 6 F-15s...and the F-15 pilots never see the F-22.
There’s no other aircraft that even comes close to its combination of supercruise, stealth and performance envelope.
The Gates D0D is counting on the F-35 to do the heavy lifting, which is cheaper, smaller, less stealthy and slower. It’s an F-16 replacement (fighter-bomber), where the F-22 is a true fighter with some air-ground capability added on at the end of the program. Worst of all, the F-35 isn’t ready yet and won’t be for a few more years. It is expected to be operational in 2013. The F-22 has been flying operationally for several months.
I don’t believe there’s anything in the “black” pipeline, both the F-22 and F-35 are ahead of anything else out there. The next big advance will be autonomous unmanned fighters, but it’ll be a while before the pilots and brass accept the need.
As I said earlier, it’s not so much about seven more planes. It’s about keeping the line open, and perhaps eventually exporting 100+ planes, and perhaps augmenting our forces. The original buy was supposed to be for 650 planes, not 187.
The reason for the additional aircraft was to keep the assembly line open for Foreign Military Sales which is where aircraft companies make their money.
Whitman described a layered approach to the government's protections, saying that as the information becomes more sensitive, it is more walled off and safeguarded.
"We view cyberspace as a war-fighting domain ... and we are going to defend it and protect it," Whitman said. "The key is to stay one step ahead of your enemy."
Defense Secretary Robert Gates told CBS News on Tuesday: "We are under cyberattack virtually all the time, every day here. We think we have pretty good control of our sensitive information, both with respect to intelligence and equipment systems."
Frankly, I'm more concerned about the who, where, and how the Chinese obtained information on the W-88 warhead.
All this military stuff is above his pay grade..
Don’t know the defense value of the F 22 (Impressive plane, I have seen it at air shows), but defense purchasing decisions should never be made because “it’s good for jobs and the economy.”
The Gov’t needs to stop being a damn welfare program for everyone, including defense contractors.
I’m closing on the property in central Kentucky in a week (I’ve been in Seattle since 1966). It can not happen too soon. I don’t want to be in an urban or suburban area when the excrement REALLY hits the rotating air circulator.
I am so beyond sick of this stuff.
More money to give to the leeches in our country....
When the 175th F22 rolls off the line, it’s done.
The Air Force wanted 750 planes, they’re going to get less than 200.
The Kenyan is disarming us.
>>> After the Health Care Obama will legalize all the illegals. <<<<<
Yes I agree that Amnesty for 20 million illegals of unknown and unknowable nationality, name, origin, criminal history, and medical status is next on the agenda.
Everyone crossing Ellis Island had at least a visa and a medical check, but not now.
This is a rebuttal to those numbers from the Air Force Association. The last line bears repeating here:
“It is important to remember that the F-15 was operational for 15 years before it was first used in combat by the USAF.”
Full article at:
http://www.f-16.net/news_article3622.html
-—begin quote-—
Assertion: F-22 maintenance man-hours per flying hour have increased, recently requiring more than 30 hours of maintenance for every hour airborne.
Facts: The F-22 is required to achieve 12.0 direct maintenance man-hours per flight hour (DMMH/FH) at system maturity, which is defined to be when the F-22 fleet has accumulated 100,000 flight hours. In 2008 the F-22 achieved 18.1 DMMH/FH which then improved to 10.5 DMMH/FH in 2009. It’s important to recognize this metric is to be met at system maturity, which is projected to occur in late 2010. So the F-22 is better than the requirement well before maturity.
Assertion: The airplane is proving very expensive to operate with a cost per flying hour far higher than for the warplane it replaces, the F-15.
Facts: USAF data shows that in 2008 the F-22 costs $44K per flying hour and the F-15 costs $30K per flying hour. But it is important to recognize the F-22 flight hour costs include base standup and other one-time costs associated with deploying a new weapon system. The F-15 is mature and does not have these same non-recurring costs. A more valid comparison is variable cost per flying hour, which for the F-22 in 2008 was $19K while for the F-15 was $17K.
Assertion: The aircraft’s radar-absorbing metallic skin is the principal cause of its maintenance troubles, with unexpected shortcomings.
Fact: Stealth is a breakthrough system capability and it requires regular maintenance, just like electronics or hydraulics. The skin of the F-22 is a part of the stealth capability and it requires routine maintenance. About one-third of the F-22’s current maintenance activity is associated with the stealth system, including the skin. It is important to recognize the F-22 currently meets or exceeds its maintenance requirements, and the operational capability of the F-22 is outstanding, in part due to its stealth system.
Assertion: The F-22 is vulnerable to rain and other elements due to its stealthy skin.
Facts: The F-22 is an all-weather fighter and rain is not an issue. The F-22 is currently based and operating in the harshest climates in the world ranging from the desert in Nevada and California, to extreme cold in Alaska, and rain/humidity in Florida, Okinawa and Guam. In all of these environments the F-22 has performed extremely well.
Assertion: We’re not seeing the mission capable rates expected and key maintenance trends for the F-22 have been negative in recent years.
Facts: The mission capable (MC) rate has improved from 62% in 2004 to 68% percent in 2009. And it continues to improve, the current MC Rate in the F-22 fleet is 70% fleet wide.
Assertion: The F-22 can only fly an average of 1.7 hours before it gets a critical failure that jeopardizes success of the aircraft’s mission.
Facts: Reliability is measured by Mean Time Between Maintenance (MTBM). One of the F-22 Key Performance Parameters (KPPs) is to have an MTBM of 3.0 hours at system maturity, which is defined to be when the F-22 fleet has accumulated 100,000 flight hours. Through 2008, F-22s averaged 2.0 hours MTBM while the fleet has accumulated 50,000 flight hours. The F-22 is on-track to meet or exceed 3.0 hours of MTBM at system maturity, projected to occur in late 2010, and the latest delivered F-22s, known as Lot 6 jets, are exhibiting an MTBM of 3.2 hours.
Assertion: The plane’s million-dollar radar-absorbing canopy delaminates and loses its strength and finish.
Facts: The F-22 canopy balances multiple requirements: mechanical strength, environmental resistance, optical clarity and other requirements. Initial designs for the canopy did not achieve the full life expectancy of 800 hours. The canopy has been redesigned and currently two companies are producing qualified canopy transparencies that meet full service life durability of 800 hours.
Assertion: The F-22 has significant structural design problems that forced expensive retrofits to the airframe.
Facts: The F-22 had a series of structural models that were tested throughout its development in a building block manner. Lockheed Martin completed static and fatigue testing in 2005 on two early production representative airframes. The results of those tests required upgrades to the airframe in a few highly stressed locations. Follow up component level testing was completed and structural redesigns were verified and implemented into the production line. For aircraft that were delivered prior to design change implementation, structural retrofit repairs are being implemented by a funded program called the F-22 Structural Retrofit Program. Structural reinforcements are common during the life of all fighters and have occurred, or are occurring, on the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18.
Assertion: The F-22 has a significant design flaw in the fuel flow system that forced expensive retrofits to the airframe.
Facts: The F-22 fuel system has not required redesign. Similar to other aircraft, the systems on the F-22 are continually being enhanced by a reliability and maintainability improvement program. For example, early fuel pumps turned out to not be as reliable as desired and have subsequently been replaced by more reliable pumps.
Assertion: Follow-on operational tests in 2007 raised operational suitability issues and noted that the airplane still does not meet most of its KPPs.
Facts: The F-22 has 11 Key Performance Parameters (KPPs). The F-22 exceeds 5 KPPs (Radar Cross Section, Supercruise, Acceleration, Flight Radius, and Radar Detection Range). The F-22 meets 4 KPPs (Maneuverability, Payload, Sortie Generation and Interoperability). The remaining 2 KPPs are sustainment metrics (MTBM and C-17 Loads) that are to be evaluated at weapon system maturity — which is defined as 100,000 total flight hours and is projected to occur in late 2010. These two sustainment metrics are on-track to be met at 100,000 flight hours.
Assertion: The F-22 costs $350M per aircraft.
Facts: The F-22s currently being delivered have a flyaway cost of $142.6M each, which is the cost to build and deliver each aircraft. This number does not include the costs for research and development (that were incurred since 1991), military construction to house the aircraft, or operations and maintenance costs.
Assertion: The F-22 needs $8 billion of improvements in order to operate properly.
Facts: Similar to every other fighter in the U.S. inventory, there is a plan to regularly incorporate upgrades into the F-22. F-22s in their current configuration are able to dominate today’s battlefield and future upgrades are planned to ensure the F-22 remains the world’s most dominant fighter. F-22 Increment 3.1, which will begin entering the field in late 2010, adds synthetic aperture radar (SAR) mode in the APG-77 radar, and a capability to employ small diameter bomb (SDB). Increment 3.1 is in flight test today at Edwards AFB, CA. Increment 3.2 is being planned and will add AIM-120D and AIM-9X weapons along with additional capabilities.
Assertion: F-22 production uses a shim line and national spreading of suppliers has cut quality, thus the F-22 lacks interchangeable parts.
Fact: The F-22 does not have a shim line. During the earliest stages of production while tooling was undergoing development, there were a few aircraft with slight differences which were subsequently modified. The F-22 supplier base is the best in the industry, as demonstrated by the aircraft’s high quality and operational performance. All operational F-22s today have interchangeable parts.
Assertion: The F-22 has never been flown over Iraq or Afghanistan.
Facts: The F-22 was declared operational in 2005, after air dominance was achieved in South West Asian Theater of conflict. Due to the absence of air-to-air or surface-to-air threats in these two theaters, stealthy air dominance assets were not an imperative. 4th generation fighters operate safely and effectively supporting the ground war in Iraq and Afghanistan. The best weapon may be the one that isn’t used but instead deters a conflict before it begins. Just as we have Trident submarines with nuclear weapons, and intercontinental ballistic missiles that were not used in the current conflicts, we need air superiority capabilities that provide deterrence. The F-22 provides those capabilities for today’s contingencies as well as for future conflict. It is important to remember that the F-15 was operational for 15 years before it was first used in combat by the USAF.
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