Didn't work.
Posted on 07/11/2009 12:17:59 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Peter Hughes of Highway Energy Systems Ltd. is an electrical and mechanical engineer responsible for many sustainable technological innovations. He spent years as an environmental consultant to the United Nations. Hughes developed ways to use solar-powered cooking at night for third world countries, and ways to force water into arid climates.
But none of his accomplishments is as impressive as his most recent innovation. The electro-kinetic road ramp, or as he refers to it, his “prized jewel in the crown,” is already making an impact in the UK and will soon be coming to the United States.
In development for six years, this new technology was installed last month at a Sainsbury, a UK grocery store chain in Gloucester. The electro kinetic road ramp was placed in the store’s parking lot, where energy generated from the weight of the cars traveling over the plates is being used to completely power all the registers in the store.
The company says that in normal traffic conditions, the ramps will produce 30kWh of energy.
“The power ramps do not use any gas from the motorists’ tank and this has been scientifically proven. We are simply using the kinetic energy and braking effect that would otherwise be wasted,” said Hughes.
Many applications for the road ramps are emerging. They have developed ways to power street and traffic lights, and even heat roads in the winter to prevent ice from forming. Other innovative applications include using the ramps to operate toll booths and ventilate tunnels to reduce pollution.
For many of us, the installation of such devices creates fears of long months of construction that disrupt traffic. But, depending on the terrain, installation actually only takes a few hours. And if a ramp stops producing energy; it does not become a hazard to traffic. The ramp can simply be switched out with a new functioning ramp in about 20 minutes, according to Hughes.
And it may not be long before you could be driving over one of these ramps.
“We expect to have appointed distributors who will also be responsible for installations and maintenance within the USA and Canada within the next 6 to 8 months,” said Hughes. While he did not specify which companies he has been negotiating with, there has been a lot of interest in Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York, as well as some of the U.S. ports.
Copyright © 2009 Green Right Now | Distributed by Noofangle Media
The real story of it is that it steals power by causing motorists to expend more fuel. It’s not free energy, in fact this is worse than power generated from a power plant. A power plant is more efficient at creating and distributing energy than a car so all this system does really is create more pollution not less.
Doesn't sound like it does that. Sounds to me like it gobbles some energy when they are puttering around the parking lot, energy that would normally go into the break pads anyway. Now maybe they are stealing energy from regenerative breaking in hybrids, but that's another story.
Oops I see their claim that it doesn’t. Which is BS. It might be statistically insignificant for an individual vehicle but added up I guarantee it is using fuel.
Added resistance causes more fuel consumption. While it may be a statistically insignificant amount per vehicle multiplied out to hundreds if not thousands of vehicles a day it becomes significant.
“The power ramps do not use any gas from the motorists’ tank and this has been scientifically proven. We are simply using the kinetic energy and braking effect that would otherwise be wasted,” said Hughes.
I’m no mechanical engineer, but there is something regarding conservation of energy that is being overlooked here. If the material is softer than the asphalt (or cement) that the car would otherwise pass over - the deformation of the material which generates the electrical energy provided - is in some marginal sense being compensated for in the energy required to roll the car forward. It would be analogous to deflating your cars tires by some % and seeing what the effect would be on fuel mileage (all other factors held constant). As we all know decreasing the rolling resistance of tires (by increasing inflation pressure), to a point, reduces fuel consumption. A softer road surface will absorb energy and decrease fuel efficiency. I’m, sure it is a paltry effect, but it’s there.
The displaced plates detract from customer velocity —the store has been unjustifiably enriched, and the drivers are entitled to compensation.
A car is a device that MAKES kinetic energy —energy from movement.
If the store USES car-supplied kinetic energy, then total car output is simply DIVIDED between car and store —very simple.
Usually customers rob stores, but here is is the OPPOSITE, and presumably and is hope and CHANGE.
If the decrease in velocity is at a location where speed must be decreased (a stop sign, or turn up a curving ramp), then it could be argued that passively decreasing the speed of your car is actually INCREASING the lifespan of your brakes, meaning a benefit to your car.
Interstate 5 is the major north/south route in CA. As it drops off the Grapevine hill, there is a 10+ mile steep downgrade where trucks are held to 35 mph due to the steepnes. It has multiple escape ramps for runaway trucks. And the truck traffic is heavy and non-stop. I’ve always pondered ways to harness the energy from those trucks coming down that hill.
You don't need to be a mechanical engineer to understand the law of thermodynamics. There's no free energy here. It's coming from somewhere.
If the pad is in a place where braking would be required (i.e. a downward slope, ending at a point where a stop is required), then something that retards the car's movement and converts that to electricity would simply be capturing kinetic energy that would otherwise be converted to heat when the car's brakes are applied.
But unless it is positioned at a point where every vehicle rolling across the pad would be braking at that very moment, it's stealing energy from the gas tank of at least some of the vehicles. It might be too small to measure on an individual basis, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.
That's it in a nutshell. The only question is whether the energy would be dissipated in braking or taken from the car and having to be replaced with energy needed to maintain speed or needed acceleration.
Wow, energy from nothing at no cost!
They should check their math. An auto’s kinetic energy comes from fuel consumption.
>>I’m no mechanical engineer,
I am, and you get it. Great explanation, spot on.
If any of them are gasoline tankers then you already are.
No. It’s just a form of energy harvesting, converting the kinetic energy that would otherwise be turned into heat into electricity instead. First Law of Thermodynamics at work.
Regarding the concept of the “theft” of energy (via minor less fuel efficiency) in this method of energy extraction,
I would think, if explained that that theft is true, the customers may still not feel deprived, considering the cost and possible price considerations for the store owners if they still had to buy the power for the cash registers.
The net “loss” to the motorists may in fact be less than the cost savings offered in the store’s prices (the total cost savings to the store owner may be greater than the additional fuel expense for the motorists).
Most non-clothing retail operations survive on margins less than 10 cents on the dollar; for food it’s less than a nickle. Electricity is one of the fixed costs that usually most difficult for them to control, in terms of what they must pay for it.
I think the customers may be lucky the method is being used.
Man...what a bunch of nay sayers.
If this technology is applied correctly, it could reduce costs in the market, thus reducing costs for the consumer.
~SC
Better yet.... wire the lower jaw of all politicians to an alternator and convert useless words to electricity.
That's the equivalent of 300 100w light bulbs.
With initial cost of materials, installation labor, and maintenance, what is the ROI on these suckers?
Didn't work.
Like Rush’s restless leg syndrome.
barbra ann
DArn those dead white men anyway.
barbra ann
“If this technology is applied correctly, it could reduce costs in the market, thus reducing costs for the consumer.”
the devices will no doubt wear out 10 times before the cost of the origional installation is recovered!
Just like public transportation loses money from the first moment it is disussed and even before implemented!
You have to factor in the fact that, on restarting the motion of the car, there would be additional effort needed to do so. The only place I see an advantage is where a halt of forward motion is required, followed by reversing motion to leave (e.g., a parking spot up to a wall).
Yes, you are right. So, it would actually have to be on the approach to the stopping point. The vehicle would have to be past the pad before coming to a complete stop, or more power would be needed to move off of it.
The only place I see an advantage is where a halt of forward motion is required, followed by reversing motion to leave (e.g., a parking spot up to a wall).
In this situation, you would have still to back off the pad, and additional power would be required. Reverse isn't free. :-)
Huh? The law of conservation of energy needs to be understood. You can't siphon energy from cars without stealing it from somewhere. In this case it looks cars will expend more energy to pump this kinetic device. Just what energy do you think that is wasted by cars in a parking lot can be captured without affecting efficiency?
Imagine a plate, normally inclined, but under each front wheel when parked. The car coming in would push the plane down flat, doing work while helping stop the car. When reversing out, the plane would come up again, doing work again while the car would, if anything, get a slight helpful push backwards.
Imagine a plate, normally inclined, but under each front wheel when parked. The car coming in would push the plane down flat, doing work while helping stop the car. When reversing out, the plane would come up again, doing work again while the car would, if anything, get a slight helpful push backwards.
Hey, I like that. Would be a limitless supply of energy as well.
This is on the website and it says it is a picture of the ramp.
What is pushing the plane back up again? Are you thinking of a spring (or set of springs)? If so, the springs are storing energy when the vehicle arrives and releasing the energy as it departs.
But, you would need a large rigid plate for that. And doesn't appear to be what this device is: it appears to be more like a squishy road surface:
BTW, I happened to find the FAQ entry from the manufacturer. It is indeed placed at a place where people would normally be slowing down (but hopefully not coming to a complete stop):
Q1. Doesn’t the ramp just steal pennies from our petrol tanks?
A1. The ramp is designed to be situated in parts of the roadway where vehicles are having to slow down, for example on downhill gradients, when approaching traffic lights or roundabouts as well as replacing sleeping policemen and traditional traffic calming measures.
In these situations, the kinetic energy of the car is being dissipated into heat (i.e. through the braking system) anyway; the ramp at this point scavenges a degree of kinetic energy as the car passes over it, but this is far less than is lost through other mechanisms.
You must have skipped my part about the break pads.
How is this so? What proof do you have of this being true? I think it is practically nil, and in fact could not even be measured.
The Prius does that by charging batteries with a generator during the downhill, (or when you are stopping at a light), and then feeding that power back through a motor to help you accelerate when you start up.
This is just another wealth distribution scheme. Let's do the smart thing, quit looking for miracles and listening to pitch men and let's start MAKING our politicians allow Nukes to be built. They are the real clean energy of the future and while it will cost money, they will not be stealing it from me but selling me a service after spending their money to build it, just the way the free market is supposed to work!
If they are using the power to operate their cash tills, then presumably they are reducing their use of mains electricity, and therefore their costs. Therefore the cost of their products goes down, and therefore the customer benefits.
Personally I walk to the store, so presumably it doesnt affect me. Unless - if I walk over these plates, are they stealing the energy I got from eating my wheety-bangs that morning?
I think we should be told...
Its probably a bit of both, but if it was positioned, as you say, near a stop sign, it would presumably be of benefit all round.
No reason why we cant build nuclear power plants AND these devices, (if they are deployed correctly).
Maybe, but maybe not. It sounds like it might capture "lost" energy.
I've often wondered if we might some day capture lost energy from appliances (i.e., heat) to store and release later, as needed.
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