Sikhs challenge US Army's ban on turbans, beards

Sacramento Bee ^ | June 14, 2009 | By DEEPTI HAJELA

[Oldeconomybuyer]

NEW YORK -- Military service is in Capt. Kamaljit Singh Kalsi's blood. But his plans to go on active duty in July are now on hold. An Army policy from the 1980s that regulates the wearing of religious items would mean he would need to shave his beard and remove the turban he wears in accordance with his religious precepts.

Sikhs have a long history with the U.S. military, serving in World Wars I and II, the Korean and Vietnam wars, and in the Persian Gulf.

[ansel12]

This is a good book on last stands.

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Stand-Famous-Battles-Against/dp/1854091883

[DieHard the Hunter]

> I have no proplem with the turbans,the beards I am not sure of and thats because of the gasmasks

Many Sikhs wear a “hair net thingy” over their beard. It’s made of really fine mesh, almost like what pantyhose is made out of. It holds their beard neat and tight against their faces. Looks quite tidy and sharp, actually.

I really don’t think any of these “issues” would present a real problem with Sikhs being permitted to serve in the armed forces whilst keeping their turbans and beards.

[Natural Law]

The Sikhs were responsible for stopping the Islamification of India. They are indeed fierce and honorable soldiers. However, as a former combat infantryman I don't know how they will be able to utilize proper headgear and gasmasks or maintain proper field hygiene.

[DesertRhino]

Again, another commonwealth country. I still feel like its the wrong path for the USA to follow a British example. But I could be swayed if there is a compelling reason to think they have earned it by demonstrating absolute loyalty to America. But never just as a multicultural sop to political correctness.

Somehow, they need to learn to hold a Kabar knife, and to feel the same way about it as they do their curved one.

[DieHard the Hunter]

> Or the Texans at the Alamo?

Yeah. Thermopylae was the comparison that (I think) UNESCO used, but yes it would be much like the Texans at the Alamo too.

[calex59]

The Army can solve this by creating a special unit of Sikhs, thus allowing them to wear their turnans, keep their facial hair, etc.

My thoughts exactly. The British did it why can't we?

[DesertRhino]

Ill check out that book,,, thanks!

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

I agree. Christians need to put being American ahead of being Christian too...

[indcons]

BTTT

[ansel12]

Oh, yeah, we could never have even fielded an armed forces without Sikhs I'm sure. How many served? This PC exaggeration got old years ago.

I'm with you the Sikh worship is strong on these threads, how did the little ol American warriors ever get along before we had somebody in our military wearing turbans to show us what bravery is.

[DieHard the Hunter]

> Somehow, they need to learn to hold a Kabar knife, and to feel the same way about it as they do their curved one.

You mean their Kirpan, the ceremonial dagger they carry? It’s actually blunt, and not used as a weapon (unlike the Gurkha’s kukuri knife).

Carrying the Kirpan is one of their religious precepts (I just barely understand this — a Sikh would be better at explaining it). It is roughly analogous to Catholics wearing a cross.

The Sikh would use the Ka-bar as his weapon, 100% every time.

[DesertRhino]

Im still generally against it, but one thing does come to mind. The 442nd RCT in WWII. All Japanese Americans, mostly from the internment camps.

Incredible bravery. Maybe a bunch of outsiders all together would feel like they had something to prove. I guess ill ponder this more.

Where do they, as a religion, stand on the war with islam? Has their leadership taken any public stands? This might be part of the calculus for me.

[ansel12]

The Sikhs were responsible for stopping the Islamification of India.

Like the French in Europe?

[Will88]

I agree. Christians need to put being American ahead of being Christian too...

Actually, there are very few occasions when those two conflict. Can't think of any involving the US military unless you want to include conscious objectors.

[ansel12]

Since Christians make up almost the entire American military what conflicts do you think they have with it, beards, refusing to wear helmets?

[DieHard the Hunter]

> Where do they, as a religion, stand on the war with islam? Has their leadership taken any public stands? This might be part of the calculus for me.

Historically they have been bitter enemies of islam. It is a subject that is well-explored here.

[Habibi]

“In fact, individuals with full beards are able to obtain a better seal than those who shave”

This would certainly be news to the FAA. It is noteworthy that one doesn’t see any US airline pilots sporting a beard (it is the LAW). Beards have been banned, in the cockpit, for years precisely to ensure a seal to the quick donning oxygen masks. Oxygen is a nice thing to have in a depressurization. Most passengers don’t object to the policy, even if they’re Sikhs.

With regard to accomodations, you can see plenty of WWII pictures with beardless Sikh soldiers marching about. There is no doubt that Sikhs make great warriors (both men and women). The presence, or absence of a beard (especially in women) has no bearing on the worth of the soldier. ;-)

I know you didn’t make the quote at the top of the page. I just wanted to keep it in context.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

How about instead encouraging them to form a defense contractor, the membership made up entirely of Sikhs?

I'll bet that would be a mighty fine outfit.

[El Gato]

Where does it stop? Skullcaps? Those hasidic mutton chops? Cowboy hats?

I've seen a Naval officer with a skullcap, in uniform, indoors. Outdoors is not a problem, you can wear whatever you want, that doesn't show. (there are of course exceptions to that as well.) Pretty sure he wasn't a chaplain. As to Cowboy hats...

Those are allowed in certain units and under certain circumstances. I was at a change of command ceremony a few months ago. The guys manning the Salute battery all had on Stetsons, with ACUs, brown boots, etc.

Sort of like this:

Although this was a much earlier ceremony, and that was the incoming Deputy CG, on the right and the Command Sergeant Major on the left. The CSM looks a lot more "at home" on the horse than the General. :)

You can see what is likely part of the same salute battery that I saw, over on the right in the background. That is the 1st Cav's battery. The ceremony I saw just borrowed them.

[DesertRhino]

“Christians need to put being American ahead of being Christian too...”

I know a lot of people would be offended by that. But to me, America is clearly God’s own work. An empty continent saved for mankind, so we could have one last chance to escape the ways of the old world.

Putting the Constitution and our nation, as conceived, second to any religion is foolish to me. America is the incubator of free Christianity. It seems reckless to not see that. I would think that a true christian would think America must be protected at all costs. (internally and externally)

Amish are very good christians, but if we counted on them for our liberty, we would have none.