Posted on 06/03/2009 4:58:22 AM PDT by marktwain
NRA is feeling betrayed. Another one of their endorsed politicians has broken his vows. (Guys, guys, guys...)
Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen vetoed a bill that would allow concealed carry permit holders to retain their firearms in establishments that serve alcohol.
“The notion that this bill would permit one to carry a concealed weapon into a crowded bar at midnight on a Saturday night defies common sense, and I cannot sign such a measure into law,” Gov. Bredesen said. This despite a weasel-worded campaign pledge to support "such a measure".
Yes, I would support such legislation. (I would support any such measures as long as they contained provisions to adequately protect the safety of the public.)
Jeez, it's not like you couldn't drive a beer truck through that hole.
There is a lot of confusion over what the bill would do, and much of that is intentional. Opponents want to portray it as an invitation for drunken maniacs to open fire in saloons. Proponents point out that many family restaurants serve beer and wine, and those dining there should not have their defenselessness dictated to them by a state that has neither the capability nor the legal obligation to protect them.
Perhaps we should look at the bill summary:
As introduced, allows person with handgun carry permit to carry in restaurants that serve alcoholic beverages as long as such person is not consuming alcoholic beverages and such restaurant is not an age-restricted venue.
That's it. Any abuse of these clear conditions is a violation of the law. Which makes you wonder why those opposing it resort to such...well, since we're dealing with a man of the cloth in this example, I'll say "misrepresentations":
“When you put a gun in the hand of someone who is under the influence of alcohol, you’re really mixing a bloody cocktail,” said the Rev. Robert Hogan, East Tennessee Baptist Association moderator and interim director of missions...
“The religious right doesn’t condone violence. You’re not courting us by giving the possibility of more violence and bloodshed.”
Read the bill Robert. And explain why doing things your way doesn't allow for "the possibility of more violence and bloodshed":
My husband was gunned down on April 2 right in front of me at Jonny's Sports Bar on Nolensville Road here in Nashville. There is a very important bill that has passed the House and Senate called the Restaurant Carry Bill....
I support this bill.
I am a permitted gun owner here in the state of Tennessee. If I could have been allowed to carry my gun that night, perhaps I could have saved my wonderful husband...
Still, the theme that "guns and alcohol don't mix" has been exploited by, among others, "police officials." Yet when the Tennessee Firearms Association asked its members to help identify who these officials were "to compile information members can use to question local officials about the officers' foray into public policy or whether to vote in the future for elected officials who support the veto," the opposition did what people who want to see you disarmed usually do--they started screaming and calling names:
Gun Freaks Acting Like Schoolyard Bullies
The hysterical convolutions in the minds of state-worshipers are truly amazing. I guess that's one way to describe citizens who wish to know which public officials advocate denying them their rights so they can take measures to lawfully protect their rights.
But don't make the mistake of thinking that just because some politically motivated police appointees find it career-enhancing to oppose citizen self defense that it's universally supported by all cops. While it's true there is an exemption for "Anyone in the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer" this does not extend to off-duty officers. Per the Tennessee Attorney General:
Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1305(c)(1) grants an exception to persons who are "in the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer...." (FN2) This exception does not generally permit off duty officers to carry weapon on such premises.
While I've never been a proponent of "Only One" exclusivity, think what that means: An off-duty cop will be just as helpless at responding to a threat from someone who does not obey the rules as anyone else.
That's really what this...uh...distills down to. All the talking, all the legalese, all the photo ops and all the political maneuvering notwithstanding, not one thing proposed by the citizen disarmament clique will do anything to stop a bad guy from being bad. What it will do is ensure that at least the "law-abiding" at mandated locations will be defenseless.
And the argument that guns and alcohol don't mix? As I type this I have access to both. There is literally nothing stopping me from getting up right now and draining a bottle of single malt and loading up the M1 Garand. Nothing except the fact that I'm a responsible and self-controlling human being, and deserve-- under the law --to be treated that way until I prove myself untrustworthy. As do millions of gun owners who may also have adult beverages on their premises. If we're too dangerous to be entrusted with the combination in restaurants, what makes people think we can be entrusted in our homes?
Of course, we know that for some, that's what it's all about.
But back to the bill. It ain't over 'til it's over. Look for a veto override effort.
THR NRA FELLS BETRAYED???????????????????
With friends like these - who needs enemies . . .
NRA Lobbied Against License to Carry Bill in IL
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16115&hl=
The NRA is in it for the NRA...........NOT US!
Last year a crazy Hispanic walked into a crowded bar in Winnemuca and opened fire. A law abiding citizen dispatched his a$$ before he could kill more using his LEGAL Concealed Carried Weapon.
The NRA didn’t support the bill because it didn’t go far enough and they would have been criticized for “compromising”.
Illinois is a lost cause anyway. There aren’t enough NRA members to support areas like that and it’s simply a waste of money.
The next time, you complain about the NRA ask yourself if four million NRA members can continue to support 75 million gunowners.
Red, do you have anything to say to this lady?
IllinoisCarry maintains that statewide preemption didn’t pass even when we did have a more favorable party in office and continuing to wait for countless more years will only result in more defenseless victims being violently assaulted and murdered. Citizens in the rest of the state where license to carry is being welcomed should not be denied the right to defend themselves just because other municipalities choose to infringe on their citizens’ rights.
You must have missed this.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2263270/posts
I don’t know why the NRA is wasting my dues on Chicago unless they are trying for incorporation of the Second Amendment.
It is not uncommon for the NRA to do this kind of sneaky lobbying, they have done similar things here in California.
The NRA is unwilling to compromise on anything, so they end up getting nothing, and those kinds of tactics just don’t work in Liberal Illinois or Liberal California.
The smart way to do it, is incremental, just like the Anti gunners out there, they do it incrementally and look where it’s gotten them, we are damn near losing everything.
David Codrea’s ... husband ...
Whatever else I might say about them, even the gays of Tennessee have better gun sense than this arse of a guvnor.
Yup it’s all about the big building and the expense account.
Why should the NRA spend it’s money on a blue state where the people aren’t NRA members? You aren’t a member so why should my money support you?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2263270/posts
Here’s another case of NRA money supporting you in case you missed it the first time.
You can make stupid comment like this, SO apparently you do NOT care about people being able to defend themselves in a city who’s murder rate is through the roof. Apparently according to you, with human beings here in Chicago it does not matter if they are robbed raped and killed, oh well you have the right so screw others.
We will wait until everything is perfect then the NRA will try to pass something.
The NRA is GOD!
Obama is God! I see where you got your ammo. Better quit hanging around your liberal friends.
Sheeple who need sheeple are the Luckiset sheeple in the World. The NRA said it so I must OBEY!!
Nice attitude.
The goa is always accusing the NRA for compromising. Maybe you can ask the the goa to do something for a change since they never do anything on their own.
Another nonmember who’s such an expert of what the NRA does. Not.
You want a good law or at least one that you can modify as time goes on. You don't want anything that is worse or too costly for the common taxpayer.
Always read the fine print in a bill, there is where you find the most restriction definitions. That was the problem in IL
First of all, get your facts straight. I’m a member of both the GOA and he NRA.
Secondly, any place in the country which allows encroachment of gun rights only means that that could spread to other states if successful. Your “strategy” for lack of a better word, is essentially the same as a doctor allowing cancer to invade one part of the body with the assumption it would not spread to another part. And we all know that is not true.
If that is your “strategy”, it needs rethinking.
Still, the theme that "guns and alcohol don't mix" has been exploited by, among others, "police officials."I'm gonna take a guess that these "police officials" are not 'big city' cops. As there's scores of Taverns in Chicago that make most of their money from 'cops with guns'. As soon as they get off duty its off to the Gin Mill. And from what I hear NYC is the same. (These are the 'Cop Bars').
an aside: There was a Chi Suburban Rest/Lounge I used too hang at. Once a month High Ranking LEOs from surrounding Suburbs had a 'lunch meeting' there. At 5:00pm at least six to seven were at the Bar drunk. They would not too slyly push their suit jacket back to show they were all packing heat (a$$holes). And yeah, not one should have been driving.
I see you have to be a member to fight for 2nd amendment rights and educate the masses don’t you??
OR do folks HIDE behind there membership dues and become ARM CHAIR WARRIORS????
By Jerry Moore,
Suburban Life Publications
Tue May 05, 2009, 10:20 PM CDT
The event held April 21 by the League of Women Voters was presented to high school students as a way to promote gun-control measures but permitted no questions from the audience. A forum held Tuesday was led by high school students as a way to promote gun rights and invited questions from those in attendance.
This week’s forum was organized by Rosanna Pulido, who earlier this year ran as the Republican candidate for the 5th Congressional District, as a response to the earlier forum. Dave Diersen of Wheaton, editor of the Web site GOPUSA Illinois, secured the City Council chambers for the event and also helped organize the forum.
“I attended the LWV forum and felt that in order to make an educated choice, people and high school students need to hear both sides of the issue,” Pulido said. “Since the LWV forum was aimed at indoctrinating the high school students, I felt it was best that the students were addressed by their peers, hence we have high school students who are Second Amendment supporters, giving their views and defense of the Second Amendment.”
Pulido said she wanted to organize an event that not only involved young people but also reached out to women, given that Mother’s Day is this weekend. The featured speaker for this week’s forum was Dr. Paula Bratich, co-coordinator of the Illinois chapter of Second Amendment Sisters.
“It’s been a very interesting journey for me. Because since I was a little girl, I dreamed of becoming a veterinarian, not coming to Wheaton for a gun forum,” Bratich said. “The women of the United States are the most independent, self-reliant women in the world, but we still are not allowed to defend themselves with a gun. ... Self-defense is a basic human right. The operative word here being ‘self.’”
“Australia is an example of where gun laws have not worked,” said high school student Christos Dimoulis, who served as the master of ceremonies for the event. “After gun laws were enacted, homicides increased by 3.2 percent. ... Armed robberies increased by 44 percent. Apparently, someone forgot to tell the criminals about these gun laws.”
Other young people who made presentations were Olivia Snow, Megan Liddy and Nik Powell.
“The world is changing rapidly, and I believe these young leaders need to be ‘passed the baton’ and encourged to stand up for themselves and their constitutional rights,” Pulido said of the high school students who participated. “Tonight we will see just that — our future is in good hands with our young leaders.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCIkJ0tKyRU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC25dAAobRY&feature=related
Heh... in the original article, that’s a quote from a woman named Nicole Goeser.
“Yup it’s all about the big building and the expense account.”
Once you hire a K street firm to lobby for you, you’re screwed. It’s all about their connections not your cause.
Sounds really bad, doesn't it?
Here's the modifications since then.
4 year license.
$100 fee.
16 hours of classwork. 8 classroom, 8 range time.
.45 caliber qualification allows any lower caliber.
Requalify at 2 years.
Recertify at 4 years.
We just missed passing the CCW in restaurants that serve alchohol by ONE vote. It will pass next year.
The point is the law has to be something that pleases the Governor enough to sign it. It's easier to modify existing law, than to try and rewrite a new bill every year.
“Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law,’ because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.” —Thomas Jefferson
Nobody should object to this:
allows person with handgun carry permit to carry in restaurants that serve alcoholic beverages as long as such person is not consuming alcoholic beverages and such restaurant is not an age-restricted venue.
In the end the people of Illinois are responsible for what is happening in Illinois, not the NRA. As long as your neighbors keep electing the liberals you will continue to suffer.
Wow! That really makes me appreciate PA law.
5 years license for $35, no classwork, and no qualification of any caiber.
Really....the way it should be. Even $35 is alot to exercise a right.
Imagine a $35 fee for a 5 year license to express your opinions....where would the ACLU be on that?
Am I an NRA member? Of course. GOA? There too.
But if you want the influence , and that is what it really is all about, and the money needed for that, the NRA has it.
Agreed!
Please see Post #15
Alaska and Vermont have it all. Have a drivers license? You can carry.
I agree completely but my original post stands. The voters can stop this absurdity any time they want.
The NRA is like any organization they have the pick their battles!
Look for a LOT of NRA money to go into that state to change the governor.
Picking battles is one thing.
Purposefully and willfully not representing people because of the color of a state is another thing entirely, and what at least one person (Shooter 2.5, who seems to have a problem with me because I do not blindly cheer the NRA) here advocates. And that is stupid, naive, and wrong.
Which makes the situation immoral and citizens should be under no obligation to submit to unsafe and immoral conditions.
REALLY?
What planet do you live on??
I was under the mistaken impression Lobbyists run the country?
That is a very disingenuous comment. Thanks to the fascist anti-smoking regulations, the vast majority of "bars" are now age-restricted to 21 and up in order to allow smoking, and are therefore exculded from this bill.
Couldn't have said it better myself! The NRA is the Jesse Jackson of the gun rights movement - it's all about keeping the $$$ flowing.
I cant tell you how many times Ive been told driving is a 'priveledge', so if the fact is a DL [or even a state card] is a requirement for a RIGHT, then there is still a slight bit of work to do...
IN is also fairly 'easy' at $35/yr [?] and < $100 for life 'permit' with record check only, but that is still waaaaay too restrictive in light of the 2A... my .02
Until the 2nd is incorporated, state law is the controlling authority on CCW.
“Alaska and Vermont have it all. Have a drivers license? You can carry.”
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